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#76270 - 06/07/06 09:44 PM Re: Blade Trailer Layout [Re: fin.]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 98
WillLints Offline
journeyman
WillLints  Offline
journeyman

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Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
Thanks for the pictures and explaination. I live in New Mexico which is simi arid and we don't have those beatutiful green lawns for rigging. I've always rigged my H16 on the trailer and i think that is common practice. but, maybe a beam supported boat can be rigged while on the trailer?.....Will Lints


Will_Lints
one-up, Blade 706, epoxy bottoms
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#76271 - 06/08/06 06:33 AM Re: Blade Trailer Layout [Re: WillLints]  
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tshan Offline
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tshan  Offline
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Eastern NC, USA
This is probably a dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway....

Doesn't "hanging" the boat by its beams put undo pressure on the the 8 bolts/nuts/connection points that hold the beam to the hulls? Are the hulls so light that this pressure is negligible? Seems like, over time, the threading for the beam bolts would weaken.......

Personally, I'd rather sit in a chair - rather than hang from a chin up bar <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My boat lives on the trailer and I try to reposition it a little after each use. It makes me feel better about "wearing" out the areas where the cradles are.

Just curious to see if others have this same concern about "hanging" boats for storage....


Tom
#76272 - 06/08/06 07:09 AM Re: Blade Trailer Layout [Re: tshan]  
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phill Offline
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veteran

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Central Coast NSW Australia
Tom,
In my book there is no such thing as a dumb question.
Just dumb answer. Hopefully this isn't a dumb answer.

This is just the way I see it.

One hull weighs between 20 and 25kg.
It is supported by 4 bolts.

If the load was even between front and back it would be between 5 to 6.25kg per bolt.

I would expect each bolt would be capable of taking over 100 times that weight.

Compare this to the tension load applied to the hulls at the rear beam when fully powered up upwind and double trapped. This load can be so high that I know of boats that have snapped inner rear beam bolts that were 8mm in dia. If really concerned look up the tensile breaking strain of an 8mm bolt just to see the type of loads involved when sailing and then compare it to trailering.
I personally don't see a problem with trailering by the beams.
Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

#76273 - 06/08/06 08:04 AM Re: Blade Trailer Layout [Re: phill]  
Joined: Sep 2005
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_flatlander_ Offline
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_flatlander_  Offline
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Tom,

If you look up the shear (side load) strength of bolts you'll find it is incredible, so as Phill says hulls simply "hanging" by bolts is no problem.

The uni-strut product is used for mechanical and electrical support in construction, and is available at the next step up from the Home Depots of building supplies. I also found that a trolley/car is available (P2570) for the 1 5/8" stuff. It's rated for 100 pounds but meant to be used in the inverted mode and for it's limited use (movement) in this application should last for years.

Had planned on using this Aussie beam support on my old Hobie trailers (patiently waiting for used/affordable T4.9/F16/?) and may have some concern with hull weights in 30 to 35 kg range, but seriously doubt it, and/or I'm going to find out.


John H16, H14
#76274 - 06/08/06 08:57 AM Re: Blade Trailer Layout [Re: tshan]  
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 3,348
Quote


Just curious to see if others have this same concern about "hanging" boats for storage....


Following Phil's reasoning: my cradle's are apporimately 144 sq. inches in area, x 4 is 576 sq. inches. Divide that by the 240 lb. boat weight= 2.4 lbs/ sq. inch.

If the experts say "hang" the boat I would consider that "best Practice", but it isn't high on my priority list. One day though! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My 2 cents.

#76275 - 06/08/06 09:27 AM Re: Blade Trailer Layout [Re: fin.]  
Joined: Dec 2005
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bobcat Offline
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bobcat  Offline
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Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Yes Pete, but are the cradles 144 sq.in. equally supporting the load? Or is the boat sitting on the bottom of the cradle and the sides just limit sideways slip.



F16 Blade 716
#76276 - 06/08/06 09:36 AM Re: Blade Trailer Layout [Re: _flatlander_]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Quote

(patiently waiting for used/affordable T4.9/F16/?)



Didn't Kirby Haws have a second hand Taipan 4.9/F16 (with extra's) on offer for 5000 USD ?

I call that AFFORDABLE !

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#76277 - 06/08/06 09:38 AM Re: Blade Trailer Layout [Re: _flatlander_]  
Joined: Jun 2001
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Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Typically steel can take 60 kg / mm^2 that would be about 85.500 lbs (say 86 K lbs) per square inch.

A single 2 mm trapeze line (1/10 inch) is enough to suspend 7 F16 boats

No worries here.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#76278 - 06/08/06 02:07 PM Re: Blade Trailer Layout [Re: Wouter]  
Joined: Dec 2005
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tshan Offline
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tshan  Offline
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Eastern NC, USA
Ok. You convinced me on the bolts. What about the glass/kevlar/carbon joints where the bolts attach to the bolts? Completley different scenario, but I've seen where people had to reseat beam landings on old old old old Nacras because the bolts pulled out/got stripped out.

Compeltely different hull builds, weights, etc.


Tom
#76279 - 06/08/06 04:55 PM Re: Blade Trailer Layout [Re: tshan]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


While sailing the loads on these areas is MUCH higher then when suspending a 25 kg hull of it.

Don't worry.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#76280 - 06/08/06 07:06 PM Re: Blade Trailer Layout [Re: bobcat]  
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 3,348
Quote
Yes Pete, but are the cradles 144 sq.in. equally supporting the load? Or is the boat sitting on the bottom of the cradle and the sides just limit sideways slip.


dunno', but I'm still not all that worried. If I were less cautious when driving, maybe.

#76281 - 06/08/06 07:55 PM Re: Blade Trailer Layout [Re: tshan]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 98
WillLints Offline
journeyman
WillLints  Offline
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Posts: 98
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
Tshan, I too am more concerened about the glass than the steel. Either way the bigger factor may be the bumps and pot holes in the road, the rail road tracks, the cattle guards, the graveled roads. It isn't the smooth road that wears out a car's suspention. I went out and bounced on one side of the TheMightyHobie18 trailer with my 150 pounds (56 KG) and i don't think it moved up and down an inch (2.5 cm). Of course it depends on how much weight one carries around in the cat box, but it just seems like it's too stiff for something that is designed to float in water. wondering, Will Lints


Will_Lints
one-up, Blade 706, epoxy bottoms
#76282 - 06/08/06 09:15 PM Re: Blade Trailer Layout [Re: WillLints]  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
I'm with you, Will. If the boat is suspended from its beams, the road vibration alone, not to mention the bumps, is going to cause the connection between beams and hulls to always be "working."

#76283 - 06/08/06 09:42 PM Re: Blade Trailer Layout [Re: phill]  
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Posts: 1,037
ejpoulsen Offline
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ejpoulsen  Offline
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Posts: 1,037
Central California
Using Phill's photos as a starting point, I came up with my trailer setup--easy to load/unload solo, very secure over thousands of miles so far, low friction Trex for the beam rails, and a clever way of integrading the dolley. See photos attached.

Attached Files
77986-trl3.JPG (347 downloads)

Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
#76284 - 06/08/06 09:43 PM Poulsen Trailer 2 [Re: ejpoulsen]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
ejpoulsen Offline
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ejpoulsen  Offline
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Posts: 1,037
Central California
2

Attached Files
77987-trl4.JPG (400 downloads)

Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
#76285 - 06/08/06 09:44 PM Poulsen Trailer 3 [Re: ejpoulsen]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
3

Attached Files
77988-trl5.JPG (305 downloads)

Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
#76286 - 06/08/06 09:45 PM Poulsen Trailer 4 [Re: ejpoulsen]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
4

Attached Files
77989-Trl1.JPG (341 downloads)

Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
#76287 - 06/08/06 09:46 PM Poulsen Trailer 5 [Re: ejpoulsen]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
5

Attached Files
77990-tlr2.JPG (349 downloads)

Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
#76288 - 06/09/06 05:09 AM Re: Poulsen Trailer 5 [Re: ejpoulsen]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,243
tback Offline
veteran
tback  Offline
veteran

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,243
Orlando, FL
Nice trailer!

Is the only thing keeping rear lateral movement minimized the CatTrax?


USA 777
#76289 - 06/09/06 07:38 AM Re: Blade Trailer Layout [Re: Mary]  
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,185
_flatlander_ Offline
old hand
_flatlander_  Offline
old hand

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,185
38.912, -95.37
Quote
If the boat is suspended from its beams, the road vibration alone, not to mention the bumps, is going to cause the connection between beams and hulls to always be "working."


But...if the beam support is approximately 4 to 6 inches from the hull, how much flection can there be? I can't see how there would be any significant movement.

Need the physics boys again.

Eric, very nice work!

Will, were you born in Missouri, the "Show Me" state? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


John H16, H14
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