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#80489 - 07/19/06 11:02 AM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: Jake]  
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pbisesi Offline
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So Maugan: Any 40 year old design is no good?


Pat Bisesi Fleet 204
-- Have You Seen This? --
#80490 - 07/19/06 11:20 AM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: pbisesi]  
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HobieZealot Offline
member
HobieZealot  Offline
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'69 MUSTANG

[Linked Image]

#80491 - 07/19/06 11:20 AM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: Lando]  
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_flatlander_ Offline
old hand
_flatlander_  Offline
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Quote
another 40 year old design <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Uhh, check that, the "beetle" was concieved in 1938 so add another 30 years. Undoubtably a timeless design to be added to the list.


John H16, H14
#80492 - 07/19/06 11:26 AM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: _flatlander_]  
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_flatlander_ Offline
old hand
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[Linked Image]

1969 CB-750 Honda beginning of the "superbikes"


John H16, H14
#80493 - 07/19/06 11:26 AM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: MauganN20]  
Joined: Jan 2004
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mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah

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Detroit, MI
Quote
It was decommissioned because it was inefficient.


Not really true.

They were decomissioned because they were made functionally obsolescent by improvements in satellite imagery.

There is nothing in the sky today (that isn't Top Secret) that's faster, though.

#80494 - 07/19/06 11:31 AM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: Lando]  
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Banzilla Offline
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Albuquerque NM
Quote
another 40 year old design <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I need to be redesigned, feeling a bit sluggish these days.


Sail Like you have a Pair
#80495 - 07/19/06 11:37 AM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: HobieZealot]  
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pitchpoledave Offline
old hand
pitchpoledave  Offline
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Toronto, Ontario
that stang doesn't look very stock to me..I guess the owner though that the ORIGINAL design needed freshening up.

#80496 - 07/19/06 11:42 AM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: pbisesi]  
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pbisesi Offline
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Maughan must not be 40 yet.

Here's an older design than the H16.
Who would want one of those old things? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Linked Image]

"The Tornado was designed in the autumn of 1967 by Rodney March from England, with help from Terry Pierce, and Reg White, specifically for the purpose of being the new Olympic Catamaran, which was to be selected by the IYRU in an Olympic Catamaran Trials. The boat was developed mainly in Brightlingsea, England."


Pat Bisesi Fleet 204
#80497 - 07/19/06 11:43 AM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: HobieZealot]  
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deq204 Offline
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Syracuse, NY
Another 40 year old design - The heck with boats - Let's talk muscle cars!

[Linked Image]

#80498 - 07/19/06 11:44 AM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: mbounds]  
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rattlenhum Offline
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Clinton, Mississippi
Quote
Quote
It was decommissioned because it was inefficient.


Not really true.

They were decomissioned because they were made functionally obsolescent by improvements in satellite imagery.

There is nothing in the sky today (that isn't Top Secret) that's faster, though.


Matt: You are so unrealistic in your defense of these old technologies. Sure, the SR71 may do Mach 5, but everyone knows it will automatically pitchpole if subjected to 21st century waves on the East Coast. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi


Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
#80499 - 07/19/06 01:00 PM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: mmiller]  
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Posts: 9,582
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Actually there are plenty of boats better then the Hobie 16 in rough conditions, but that is an old discussion that has more then a few religious undertones.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#80500 - 07/19/06 01:02 PM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: rattlenhum]  
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MauganN20 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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we are obviously witnessing a difference in mindset here.

While the H16 may be a great boat blah blah blah, it was designed 40 years ago using technology and technique from that era while other designs do what the H16 just as well or better than it does for the same amount of money. Its been very evident and demonstrated time after time that H16 owners are very defensive about their boats, so I'm not expecting any budging here.

I just turned 26 on July 7, 14 more years to go before I need to be updated. (Like the Tornado was just not-so-recently)

Unfortunately I wont be around any longer to watch the fireworks. I have to go to my damn house closing walkthrough. I decided to go with a brand new, better, more energy efficient house at a cheaper price rather than a 40 year old house that may be pretty and hold a lot of nostalgic value to some, wasn't the right fit for me.

#80501 - 07/19/06 01:03 PM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: mbounds]  
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Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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North-West Europe

Quote

There is nothing in the sky today (that isn't Top Secret) that's faster, though.



Only the space shuttle and the planes of the later years in the X programs.


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#80502 - 07/19/06 01:06 PM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: tfillmer]  
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Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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Quote

Is the Prindle Escape an underpowered Prindle 18?


Seriously so I'm afriad. It is Prindle 18 with a Prindle 16 rig. It was intended as a rental boat or for people who really don't want to sail hard.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#80503 - 07/19/06 01:59 PM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: Wouter]  
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pbisesi Offline
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Syracuse,N.Y
Wouter: Maybe if you and Maugan would stop using the words better and worse when describing the boats. the old fashioned guys would take it better.
Is the NACRA 5.0 a bad boat compared to the Infusion?
Of course not. They are differant. They serve differant people and differant needs.
Hobie built the more modern designs that people were looking for and continue to do so with the Tiger.
The 16 fills a need that is still out there for people that want a simple boat that is great recreation or can be raced against some of the very best sailors out there.
I will be at the H16 NAC this year and I will bet there won't be a tougher cat regatta in this country top to bottom.
You can go at least 50 deep with very good sailors.
When have you been on a starting line with more than 50 one design boats? It's very cool and not about the boat design.
The F18 NAC is also shaping up to be a big regatta with great sailors.
The Wave regatta shown on the front page has 18 one design boats. Not bad boats,just serving a differant need.
They are differant, not better or worse.


Pat Bisesi Fleet 204
#80504 - 07/19/06 02:08 PM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: pbisesi]  
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_flatlander_ Offline
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vive le' differance

There may be a perception that H16 sailors can't appreciate other boats as well? Au contraire


John H16, H14
#80505 - 07/19/06 02:14 PM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: MauganN20]  
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 545
grob Offline
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Brighton, UK
Quote
we are obviously witnessing a difference in mindset here.... I have to go to my damn house closing walkthrough. I decided to go with a brand new, better, more energy efficient house at a cheaper price rather than a 40 year old house that may be pretty and hold a lot of nostalgic value to some, wasn't the right fit for me.


Definatly a different mindset, I traded my 100 year old house for a 150 year old house last year. We are having a heatwave in the UK, today was the hottest July day for a century. My house is stone built and is lovely and cool.

Mind you I grew up in a pub that was 400 years old, the walls were 2ft thick and it never got cold in the winter and never got hot in the summer. So not all old design is bad design.

Gareth

Last edited by grob; 07/19/06 02:18 PM.
#80506 - 07/19/06 02:17 PM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: _flatlander_]  
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pbisesi Offline
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pbisesi  Offline
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Syracuse,N.Y
I had a chance to sit and drink beer on Ollie's new Capricorn this past weekend. We tried to fill the tramp with empties to properly commision it. They are very cool boats and if I had time would have loved to go for a sail.


Pat Bisesi Fleet 204
#80507 - 07/19/06 02:19 PM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: MauganN20]  
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Posts: 5,558
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Quote
While the H16 may be a great boat blah blah blah, it was designed 40 years ago using technology and technique from that era.

Maugan, I don't think you were alive when the Hobie 14 and 16 were invented, so you may not be aware that those of us who owned and sailed catamarans at the time were appalled by the weird design that Hobie Alter created. It certainly did not reflect the "technology and technique" of the time, which had already created the very high-tech A-Class boats like the Unicorn, B-Class boats like the Tornado, and C-Class boats.

The Hobie 14 and 16 were created for a specific purpose, to be a "beach cat" that could sail in and out through surf. They accomplished the purpose brilliantly in 1970 and they still do to this day.

The Hobie 16 is not just "old" technology, it is technology from WAY, WAY BACK. It is classic, and it is timeless, just like the Wharram designs.

#80508 - 07/19/06 04:07 PM Re: beach cat recommendation [Re: Mary]  
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davidtilley Offline
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So what is better than a H16 in the serious surf? (dont say Nacrs - in chop they go like a Ferrari on a motocross track)Anyone really tried the Supercat 17? Bet you it is pretty good.
There also seems to be some confusion with technology/modern/design seemingly interchangeable terms?
For instance, if I built a replica H16 with carbon in place of glass hulls , it would be using hi tech material, and an inferior design (not the same-inferior) because the material properties would not be exploited as well as the glass was, it is even conceivable that the localized rigidity would cause new failiures....
James Wharram and Hanneke (sp) build boats that are able to use low tech materials because they are instinctively? so smart in design. This is technology. The Polynesians had a better boat for its purpose than did Captain Cook - their technology was superior, but their materials and fabrication techniques were less sophisticated (lower tech).
It sometimes seems that people consider materials only high tech if they produce awfull toxins in the manufacturing process, and look markedly unusual...
Personally, I get goose bumps looking at a slick old Tornado tapered aluminum mast, whereas an extrusion replicated out of carbon fibre is just dumb. Now a woven up carbon mast with all the fibres in the right places, that is hitech materials exploited by smarts. Hi Tech, with a capital H.

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