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Re: How fast is my F18? [Re: Timbo] #86615
10/17/06 08:32 AM
10/17/06 08:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: How fast is my F18? [Re: Timbo] #86616
10/17/06 09:02 AM
10/17/06 09:02 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
About this quick <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

http://www.formula18alive.com/f18alive.wmv


Re: How fast is my F18? [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #86617
10/17/06 04:11 PM
10/17/06 04:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline
old hand
hobiegary  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
Stephen and Brent must not be going very fast because they don't have any glasses on. Everyone knows that taking direct spray hits to the eyeballs at speeds that beachcats are capable of, would knock the balls out of your sockets.
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

GARY


Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
Re: How fast is my F18? [Re: Wouter] #86618
10/17/06 04:18 PM
10/17/06 04:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 256
North Europe, Sweden, Uppsala
Hakan Frojdh Offline
enthusiast
Hakan Frojdh  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 256
North Europe, Sweden, Uppsala
Wouter, some corrections to the speed of an A-cat with spi.
* In higher winds I sail 150 deg of the wind not 140 deg.
* The movie stated 6-12 knots and if you watch the waves around the boat it was white caps at the downwind in the beginning and later in the movie the seas was calmer.
* If the wind was close to 12 knots in the beginning the 18 knots of downwind speed is ok according to the 150% rule you stated.

/håkan

Re: How fast is my F18? [Re: Hakan Frojdh] #86619
10/18/06 07:53 AM
10/18/06 07:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11
Stockholm, Sweden
B
bengtos Offline
stranger
bengtos  Offline
stranger
B

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11
Stockholm, Sweden
Håkan,

As I know you have plotted your speed and course when you won the Roslagen distance race on a Capricorn F-18, I wonder what top speed did you measure then with your GPS?

Oh, another thing.. Isn't it true that you have reached even higher speeds with your new and shiny Hobie 16 than with your A-Cat.. Come on, tell the truth!

Re: How fast is my F18? [Re: bengtos] #86620
10/18/06 11:32 PM
10/18/06 11:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
jollyrodgers Offline
enthusiast
jollyrodgers  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
gee what a surprise beach cats still go around 25 knots. this endlessly asked question has come around again.
the slalom guys at kanaha have a contest where they pass around a gps and they went around 30knots on a good day. there is no doubt in my mind that they are faster than an F18. it doesn't make sense that a spi. would be a speed sail. they were created to power up a boat in under powered conditions. at some point they must become drag. from my experience, less is more in high winds...bearing in mind that speed sailors do use very large sails, but they do keep the drag low.

Re: How fast is my F18? [Re: jollyrodgers] #86621
10/19/06 03:54 AM
10/19/06 03:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Most beach cats will have a similar top speed on a beam reach. That is not where the development of modern cat designs have gone too. These designs have been optimized for pure upwind and pure downwind work and here they will simply KILL any Hobie 16.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: How fast is my F18? [Re: Wouter] #86622
10/19/06 07:08 AM
10/19/06 07:08 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
MauganN20  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
wow I actually agree with Wout.

Re: How fast is my F18? [Re: MauganN20] #86623
10/19/06 01:06 PM
10/19/06 01:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 256
North Europe, Sweden, Uppsala
Hakan Frojdh Offline
enthusiast
Hakan Frojdh  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 256
North Europe, Sweden, Uppsala
When I compare the top speed in flat water for an A-class and the Hobie 16 (I sail both) my feeling is that the Hobie 16 has potential to be faster. The max speed I have reached with the A-class is 19.5 knots without spi and 20.5 knots with spi. I haven't enough gps logs on the Hobie 16 to prove that it is faster, but it has potential for it. Rather low weight (145 kg), short mast and no centerboards.

Anyone that has a good gps log for a well sailed Hobie 16 on a double trapeze beam reach in 20 knots of wind in flat water?

/håkan

Re: How fast is my F18? [Re: Hakan Frojdh] #86624
10/20/06 07:42 AM
10/20/06 07:42 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 87
Trondheim, Norway
J
jimi Offline
journeyman
jimi  Offline
journeyman
J

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 87
Trondheim, Norway
So you are saying that a H16 is faster than this beast in a big breeze?
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...01&an=0&page=0#Post88001

Re: How fast is my F18? [Re: jimi] #86625
10/20/06 01:19 PM
10/20/06 01:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
old hand
Dan_Delave  Offline
old hand

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Actually Jimi in a big breeze it may be a matter of the last man standing. Those VX40s like to go over when the breeze is up. A 16 could go over and still be righted by the crew to finish the race.

If you are only taking about speed at a moment then that is different. Those big guys like sailing in under 10. They are that efficient.

Later,
Dan

Re: How fast is my F18? [Re: Dan_Delave] #86626
10/20/06 03:31 PM
10/20/06 03:31 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 87
Trondheim, Norway
J
jimi Offline
journeyman
jimi  Offline
journeyman
J

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 87
Trondheim, Norway
Thanks Dan!
I have seen videos of the VX40s flying a hull in 4-6 knots of breeze, they are crazy!

Re: How fast is my F18? [Re: Wouter] #86627
10/22/06 05:09 PM
10/22/06 05:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
jollyrodgers Offline
enthusiast
jollyrodgers  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
why bring up the H16?
aren't F18's beach cats?
apparently i'm wrong about beach cats topping out around 25 knots, because the tornado video w/bruce kendall claims a top speed of 33knots. what conditions and point of sail was that done in?
the question: how fast? is dealing with top speed not beating speed or downwind speed the way i read it. i believe most beach cats top out at a similar speed, since there are no production cats designed as speed record craft.
they are all designed to excell in moderate winds on all points of sail. in fact i was under the impression that some cats could go 20 in 10konts of wind.

Re: How fast is my F18? [Re: jollyrodgers] #86628
10/23/06 04:33 AM
10/23/06 04:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa
Steve_Kwiksilver Offline
addict
Steve_Kwiksilver  Offline
addict

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa
" in fact i was under the impression that some cats could go 20 in 10knots of wind." - You`ll find cats or any sailing craft designed to acchieve this, will only do 10knots in 20knots of wind. As mentioned by others, the VX40`s can fly a hull in 4-6knots ? I`m assuming they are depowering drastically at 20knots, and tripping all over themselves in 25 plus, unless they reef sails. Unfortunately you can`t have a Lake Garda 5 knot specialist yacht and sail it comfortably in 30 knots, you have to choose the boat designed for a certain windrange, and sail within it.
I`ll agree with the sentiment that says that catamarans are at their most efficient in light to medium winds - you might sail at 1,5 times windspeed in 10 knots, but in 30 knots you will be sailing at 0,5 times windspeed. (if you`re upright.)

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