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#96386 - 01/16/07 11:43 PM wave dart topaz  
Joined: Jan 2007
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ceweed Offline
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ceweed  Offline
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Hi folks
any advice for a total cat ignoramus.
My club ( Dukhan Watersports , Qatar ) has budget raised based on 6 dart 16s , From the posts I see Topper do a pretty 16 & we have a couple of getaways under repair.
What would be the best choice for beginners club boats , must thrive on neglect & need minimal spares

-- Have You Seen This? --
#96387 - 01/17/07 12:03 AM Re: wave dart topaz [Re: ceweed]  
Joined: Nov 2002
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Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Quote
What would be the best choice for beginners club boats, must thrive on neglect & need minimal spares

If you are talking about catamarans, you are DEFINITELY talking about the Hobie Wave. Our own Waves have certainly thrived on neglect and have needed minimal spares and repairs. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ...and that is after years in the hot Florida sun.

#96388 - 01/17/07 03:27 AM Re: wave dart topaz [Re: Mary]  
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Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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Essex, UK
Have to agree with Mary. You'd be hard pressed to find a better beginner cat than a Wave. But there is the danger that some may not find it exciting/challenging enough.

Hobie Europe do a few nice alternatives though - take a look at the Twixxy (terrible name I know) it's a great little trainer and has the bonus of being upgradable to twin trapeze and spinnaker! In beginner mode the mainsail can be reefed and the jib furled. With more experience you can then use the full sail area and add one or two trapezes. Finally go the whole hog and put on a spinnaker kit. Like everything Hobie it's virtually bombproof!


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
#96389 - 01/17/07 05:44 AM Re: wave dart topaz [Re: Jalani]  
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bvining Offline
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bvining  Offline
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Atlanta
The Dart 16 is just as bulletproof as the wave and its got more horsepower.

I'd vote for the Dart 16.

#96390 - 01/17/07 06:59 AM Re: wave dart topaz [Re: bvining]  
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Dermot Offline
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Dermot  Offline
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Dublin, Ireland
Quote
The Dart 16 is just as bulletproof as the wave and its got more horsepower.

I'd vote for the Dart 16.

I don't know the Wave, but our juniors (early teens) turned their noses up at the Twixxy in favour of the Dart 16. They could handle it too, up to the top of a force 3.(not reefed.
The new Topper is also designed by Yves Loday and looks cool <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />. I have not sailed one.


Dermot
Catapult 265
www.catamaran.ie
#96391 - 01/17/07 07:25 AM Re: wave dart topaz [Re: Dermot]  
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Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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I wouldn't have classed the Dart 16 as a beginners boat though, more an 'improvers' boat. Agreed, it is a very durable and straightforward product. In it's basic rig form I guess it would be good for teaching - there are certainly plenty of them being used at beachclubs and hotels in Europe!

I know what you mean about the Twixxy too. Without the spin kit and a good breeze sailing it is a bit dull, although all my kids (and some other member's kids) have had a terrific time learning on my one. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Having looked very closely at the Topaz 16C/16CX, I'm very impressed by what Topper and Loday/White have developed. I think the 16C with it's reefing main could make a great teaching cat and the 16CX will give a great ride to more experienced catsailors.


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
#96392 - 01/17/07 11:22 AM Re: wave dart topaz [Re: Jalani]  
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Dermot Offline
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Dermot  Offline
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Quote
I wouldn't have classed the Dart 16 as a beginners boat though, more an 'improvers' boat. Agreed, it is a very durable and straightforward product. In it's basic rig form I guess it would be good for teaching - there are certainly plenty of them being used at beachclubs and hotels in Europe!

I know what you mean about the Twixxy too. Without the spin kit and a good breeze sailing it is a bit dull, although all my kids (and some other member's kids) have had a terrific time learning on my one. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Having looked very closely at the Topaz 16C/16CX, I'm very impressed by what Topper and Loday/White have developed. I think the 16C with it's reefing main could make a great teaching cat and the 16CX will give a great ride to more experienced catsailors.

Sorry John, I forgot that you actually had one <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />


Dermot
Catapult 265
www.catamaran.ie
#96393 - 01/18/07 01:38 AM Re: wave dart topaz [Re: Dermot]  
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ceweed Offline
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ceweed  Offline
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Many thanks for the advice.
I'm stuck out in the Arabian Gulf & don't get to see the items in the flesh.
choice seems to be between 4 Darts or 6 Topaz on the prices I've been quoted. Topaz looks remarkable value
Most the sailors will be converting from dinghy ( like myself )
havent had a price for the wave yet , but it looks a bit smaller , some will want to be out there with several kids so extra space may be significant.

#96394 - 01/18/07 02:18 AM Re: wave dart topaz [Re: ceweed]  
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Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
I am not trying to push the Waves -- just telling you what I know about them from experience.

The Wave is only 13 feet long, but I would be willing to bet that it has room for more people than the other boats you are looking at -- and more buoyancy to carry more weight, as well. I know for sure it has more seating area than either the Hobie 16 or the Hobie 18, because I have measured all three.

I'm sure the Topaz and the Dart 16 are prettier, and faster, than the Wave.

If you had a lot of wind in your area on a regular basis (like 20 knots plus), I would say you need to get Waves. However, I suspect you tend to have light to moderate wind conditions, so that is probably not a factor.

Personally, I would go with the best price so you can get as many boats as possible for your fleet. That way if one or two of them have temporary breakdowns, you still have enough boats for your sailors to use.

#96395 - 01/18/07 08:46 AM Re: wave dart topaz [Re: Mary]  
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BobG Offline
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BobG  Offline
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You could pressure the people at Dart to give you the other two boats ,no make it three boats for the same price as the Topaz.Are the boats new I presume? What about 2nd hand.A while back their was a lot of calls on P19and 18.2's going to Chile in order to build that club's fleet, they were after every one they could find it seemed.

#96396 - 01/18/07 11:45 AM Re: wave dart topaz [Re: BobG]  
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mmiller Offline
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mmiller  Offline
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California
Thanks for all the great comments about the Wave Mary!

The Wave is a great choice on several points -

- Novice and recreational sailors.
- High Wind (Really fun! No hassle sailing.)
- Durability
- Capacity (Single to 4 Adults [light air and flat water for the higher end of capacity of course])
- Price (Current US Retail price is $4,399.00*)

* Lower Institutional pricing is available for 5 or more when purchased for Clubs, Schools and Rentals.

We do not pretend that the Wave is a junior trainer for those kids who are experienced sailors looking for high performance trapeze and spinnaker training.

You should have a few Waves in any mix you end up with at your club. It is the best thing going for introduction to catamaran sailing. Simple, pure fun.


Hobie Cat Forums
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
#96397 - 01/21/07 12:40 AM Re: wave dart topaz [Re: Mary]  
Joined: Jan 2007
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ceweed Offline
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ceweed  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 9
Hi Mary
Thanks for the input
When winds get 20Kt here everything dissapears in the sandstorm & we discourage club sailing as it becomes difficult to ensure rescue boat service.
For carrying more people I'm hoping ( thanks to advice from the forum ) to get out 2 getaways repaired & OTW.
between 4 dart , 6 top16c or 5 t16CX with spares , the topaz 16cx looks best for the club.
Wonder If I can get QP to give me trips out too try all these craft <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

#96398 - 01/21/07 07:11 AM Re: wave dart topaz [Re: ceweed]  
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Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Ceweed,

I failed to find any specifics on these Topaz 16's

Do you have those ?

If so can you post them or otherwise maybe send me these in private. I'm especially interested in teh boat design specs like length width,weight and sailarea etc.

Thanks

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#96399 - 01/21/07 03:15 PM Re: wave dart topaz [Re: Wouter]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Hi Wouter,

I have the specs on those Toppers <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
#96400 - 01/22/07 06:11 AM Re: wave dart topaz [Re: Jalani]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


John,

can you please send them to me. To my regular e-mail account, Thank you.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#96401 - 01/25/07 02:02 AM Re: wave dart topaz [Re: Wouter]  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 9
ceweed Offline
stranger
ceweed  Offline
stranger

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 9
noble marine insurance has a spec page for them
I'm awaiting catalogues from topper UK , the web site is a bit bare for them at the moment.

from the comments earlier , it looks like the wave has a big fanclub , I'll need to budget for some next year.

#96402 - 01/25/07 05:34 AM Re: wave dart topaz [Re: ceweed]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Thanks,

Texel ratings between 125 - 131.

Slow boats therefor

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands

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