Statue of Liberty Race

Who's going to the Statue of Liberty race this year?!
I guess they gave up on their "objective 100"
From what I hear they have been having issues with their website and webmaster.

The race is this Saturday.
I'll be there Thursday night/ Friday morning on Nacra 20 #642
-Todd

I will definately be there! This is a great race and they throw an awesome party each year too. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> See you Friday morning.
Chris
www.acceleratedchaos.com

Velocity Sailing will be there sometime on Friday.

Chris, Thanks for the ride last month! I'll be rooting for you. May you have a safe breakage free sail!

so 3 nacra 20s.... we have like 10-15 last year right? hopefully we'll see the same again!

Anyone of the race organizers have any insight on the plan for incimant weather. I'm looking forward to coming down for the race, but want to make sure there is going to be one with the t-storms likely for saturday and sunday per most forecasts. (I keep trying to find a forecast that doesn't make the chances of lighting quite so high.... )
Thanks!
Chris

News? Results?

Serious drifter. Wind started to fill in around 10:00, so they started us just before 11, the first boat made it to the bridge in about 2 1/2 hrs, it was a capricorn followed by a whole bunch of boats about 20 minutes later. It was a bit of a luck game on being on the correct side of the course when the wind filled, then died... then filled again, and died again. About a mile up the bay under the bridge, we turned back as the GPS was predicting a very long afternoon/ night on the water. Boats all around us did the same. It was a downwind drift to the statue and winds were not predicted to fill much more than they were doing. The thought of an upwind slog in the dark with the traffic of NYC harbor did not sound like fun to me. It was a tough decision as this was the first distance race I decided to turn back on (must be getting old) but one I don't regret. Huge props to those who kept going! In the end only 8 boats rounded the statue, or so I was told. First boat was a N20, followed by a H20 spin, and the capricorn in third. These results are all second and third hand as I was part way home by the time the first boat finished. As usual, great party with good food on friday night! Band cancelled, but we had a good time with a party that resembled a college regatta party with flip cup and funnels being enjoyed by many. Three boats even went for a night sail to watch the local fireworks on the 4th. We had 4 people, the dog, and an amazing show on our boat. Bummer on the conditions, but a great weekend all the same.
Chris
www.acceleratedchaos.com

Here are the results from the statue of liberty race held on Saturrday July
5th. The winds were extremely light and only 8 of the the 30 registered boats
were able to complete the course. Since only 8 boats finished, almost everyone recieved a trophy of
some sort.

Statue of Liberty ~ another Point of View

Contrary to what has been posted, the race was not totally a drifter. Otherwise, no one would have made it through the flooding current at the Narrows which was reportedly 4 knots at peak ebb.

The start was very light but built to a rather steady 5-7 one-jibe run to the bridge after the first turn at the Naval Weapons pier. Most boats held high and ended up bucking the stronger flow in the main channel. We went low to stay out of that and got a nice push into the bridge from the flow out of Raritan Bay. About 10 boats converged at the bridge and spent a frustrating hour or so gaining and losing ground, but always moving decently through the water. One by one someone would punch through into the better water inside.

It was still tough going but I thought very interesting and exciting to see the dynamics change back and forth. There were seams and back currents that made the difference…just like finding wind.

We were very surprised and disappointed when the Tybee folks bailed on us. Almost immediately the whole situation changed and a nice breeze filled in to allow the “chosen” to start making their approaches to the Statue. Every sense you had came into play. There were tide lines, moving ships, anchored barges, wind shadows and oh yeah…….the big orange Staten Island Ferries that came from both directions at warp speed. There was a new challenge every time you looked around and fortunes were gained or lost many times.

Eventually we converged with several of the leaders for the rounding which could be in either direction. I had planned our approach to go counter-clockwise but as we got close, commercial traffic forced us the other way. We held a slight lead over Jon and Ladi on the I20 coming in from the Brooklyn side. The Capricorn (Bracco/Saffer) squandered a big lead going to the Hoboken side. They came in behind and jibed inside us going around while we all had to stay clear of the security zone and park ranger boats.

Once around it was a beat all the way home in a building sea breeze and haze. The highlight of the race was double trapping, pacing the Staten Island ferries. We jumped the stern wake of one going one way and found absolutely flat water in it’s wake. Another one going the other way carried us on it’s bow wake for awhile and eventually drove over us. We dropped in behind him and he sucked us all the way to his dock.

After that, it was a very pleasant close reach/beat all the way back. We all misjudged the heading going back across Raritan Bay and bore off too soon in the haze. That meant that we had to tack around the Navy pier mark after giving away the height we had in the bag.

We arrived on the beach just after 7pm and the wonderful folks at Sandy Hook Bay Catamaran Club helped us ashore and fed us again.

Although the harbor was very intimidating, we never felt in danger. The SHBCC chase boats were always nearby. This was absolutely the most interesting and exciting cat race either of us had ever done.

Jack - are you calling Chris a lier or a pansy!? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Congrats on the win!

Trey turned back too :P

Although I would have done the same. Remember that when it stops being fun, why keep subjecting yourself to torture?

Jack - are you calling Chris a lier or a pansy!? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

just a PANSY!

Yeah.

What a pansy.

I was talkin' about the Tippy Cup party the night before the race.

Never in doubt is the epic voyage dipicted above in this year's Tybee. That is historic by any measure.

Even pansies need to get home!

Great write up, and great job on the race.

Way to go Jack!

We had Zhikspeed!

wow! I look away for a day, and look what happens around here!
Jack, I know that you are bitter that we (our drinking team including your great crew Barbie) kicked your butt at flip cup round after round... but my god, a pansy!?!?! I think all we can do is call for a rematch soon! Perhaps next years tybee??? Steeplechase??? or something sooner like the New England 100?
seriously, major props to you for finishing and the win! You join a list of great sailors on the trophy. Add your name proudly, and while you are at it, would you mind making up the plaque from 2006 for me?
Chris

You know? I bet we could probably talk Jack into something like the Tybee....hmmmmm....

And Chris, you know better than to turn your back on this gang.

I have to respect everyone that kept going this year! I was right with Chris when we turned around... we were going 3-5 miles per hour with 5 miles left til the statue and our gps was telling us we still had over 2 hours left just to reach it!
Like Chris said, we didn't like the idea of a night leg in New York Harbor, and I did not have a flashlight on board.
This was my 7th statue race and first time not finishing... it was kind of a bummer but we were on the road by the time the first boats were coming in, and that was after indulging in plenty of beer and food.
Congrats again to those 8 that finished! Can't wait til next year!

Jake (and all...),
What would you think about a regional challenge for the Tybee this year? I've been thinking about how good the distance racers are from New England, and want to challenge the other regions of the US and international teams to the Tybee this year. My thought is a reverse point system, where your region is rewarded for all finishers by not only the higher in the ranks they finish, but also in the number of boats that show up to do the race. Regions could include: New England, Mid Atlantic, Florida, Mid West and West Coast, and international teams.
The goal would be to increase the level of friendly competition between teams, create a team approach that goes beyond the individual boats, and increase participation.
With this method, Jake, you would be responsible to get Jack on the starting line!
what do you think???
Chris

I don't think you New England pansys (can't even finish the Statue Race) would stand a chance against us Florida boys!!!!! How about them apples!?!?!? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

What region would Team Seacats fall into? We're 1/2 PA and 1/2 SC. Do I get to claim Florida?

I don't think you New England pansys (can't even finish the Statue Race) would stand a chance against us Florida boys!!!!! How about them apples!?!?!?

Geeze no wonder you guys couldn't find the statue.. you can't even spell pansies!!

Our "Cup" team did OK. Especially since we had more people most of the time and we actually drank what was in our cups!

Barbie was the reason you did better. She was just on loan.

I might point out that Barbie and I were the last ones at the table after a bunch of NACRA jockies hit the hay.

Don't worry about a rematch...we are back and it will come. Probably can't make it North again this year, but we will do the Florida circuit this fall. Hiram's, Steeplechase, etc. Maybe the Everglades.

Tybee....who knows. Need at better boat.

I'll get the plaque made for 2006.

Also an extra 2008 plaque with a list of "pansys".

Don't blame Chris. That came from Jake. He's the smart one here so we just followed his lead. He can't spell liar either!

He's an engineer.

alright, I'll own up to "lier" - but there's not one of my posts with the word "Pansys" in it!

Man, you guys even let down the Nacra team at the bar? That's shameful. Us southern Nacra boys, Todd Hart, Nigel, and Mike Krantz are going to have to come up there and hold a training class.

Don't blame Jake for my poor spelling. He may be the smart one here, but I will never make that claim about myself.

Did this not come from the master??

Do you have a gerbil that uses your computer?

yes and right before he hit the hay the kid wearing the Boston hat sitting next to me in tippy cup suggested that I please take it easy and not drink too much so I could manage to make it to the race the next morning. I chastised him severely right then and there using descriptives such as pansy and worse. And next thing we knew Jack and I were sitting alone at the round table waiting for the next round of tippycup amidst the sounds of snores. But Jack you're confused about team size. At one point we had at least twice as many members as you. And remember, you were drinking Coke!

I always get confused about size.

You know that "coke" was laced with rum, of course, and did I not go back and get my Appleton's Reserve when that ran out?

Maybe I missed a good year after all! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pansy is the correct spelling of the singular...Pansies is the plural version. I never posted "pansys" <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Dudes,

Careful, this thread is going to be bounced to the "OTHER non-sailing" forum and labeled "Flower collecting" if you keep going on about pansies... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Right next to the one about Rick's squirrels tasting like chicken.

And Pete's going on about how you alone are wrecking the planet.

Beer is now cheaper than gas. Drink more, drive less..

[/quote]

Pansy is the correct spelling of the singular...Pansies is the plural version. I never posted "pansys" <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> [/quote]

My appology...I didn't even bring it up to start with anyway. I would never have noticed.

BTW, I don't think there where any "pansies" in this race. I have total respect for the folks that made different choices than we did. We know their history and are proud to be accepted by them on the water and at the table.

awwwww....there you go...defuse the situation just when it was getting fun. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So that makes him more of a "lilly" than a "pansy"?

What about rhododendron?

Wait a minute!! We sailed the whole friggen race...how do we all of a sudden get included with the flower children?

because dorks like me who spend too much time online and not enough time trimming sheets have to keep the pot stirring! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (I am jealous of your feat, and congratulate you)

One day I'll actually set foot on a boat again, you'll see!

you can call me "pachystachys"

Now just to be clear.....when I threw out the "Pansys"....yeah I know now...."Pansies" comment, it was only in reference to Chris's sugestion regarding setting up a competition during the Tybee between regions of the country. You know...stirring up a bit of geographical rivalry. I have sailed both with and against Chris. "pansy" is the LAST word I would use to describe him or his sailing!!!!!

But, grasshopper, it has taken on a life of its own... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That's the beauty of this place....

Smoking chimps, green-freaks, mangynas, engineers, and a few actual sailors!

And which catagory do you fall into????? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Certainly not the last one.

Good point. I'll add "stud muffin" to the list <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Or maybe "pot-stirer" would be more appropriate...

Hay-Seuss! Jake, how in the heck did you get over 6,000 posts?

And I thought I was a slave to the keyboard....

It's only due to consistency. I registered the first day the forum opened in 2001 - I'm still #2 with regards to no of posts though.

Looks like he turned his back on' em twice.
I'm in for the training, all the good N.E. drinkers (Adam, Ed, Eric,etc.) quit sailing. They shouldn't be a problem unless Garrett showed up again.
Tawd

"They" have given up indeed. In fact, "they" really never had their heart into it anyways. This is a fascinating story of what happens when young people with vision, enthusiasm and commitment start a project in a club that's run by an old guard that refuses to give up control to a new generation and new ideas.
I (Thomas DeGeest) was one of the key drivers behind Objective 100, together with - then race officer - Jacques Pierret. Almost immediately after the 2005 Statue Race, we sat together and dreamed up a vision of a US based cat race, with a similar stature of what Texel is in Europe. What better place to do it than NYC. We got several club members on board to plan and prepare for the initiative. We worked on it for more than 10 months: publicity, registration, race and event logistics. It took hundreds of hours of work. We were not sure to get to a 100 participants (still a very modest goal, compared to Texel) in the first year. Objective 100 would be a multi-year program that would grow the race into one of the most visible sailing events in the NY Metro area. The NY harbor offered several great spots for observers or press to follow the race, and we'd have the 4th of July weekend and the Statue of Liberty as top-ingredients for a great story. We had signed up more sponsors than ever - sponsors who were willing to go along for a multi-year ride.
Initially we ran into indifference from the old guard. "We'd never make it". Indifference became skepticism. Once it became apparent that we actually may get somewhere, we ran into opposition and even obstruction from some members.
The real story with the Sandy Hook Club board is that they wanted to keep the Statue Race small, they didn't want the hassle of more organization and planning. They didn't want to bother to do things differently than the way they'd done it for 30 years. And they definitely didn't want relatively new members (or Europeans - remember the post 9/11 anti-everything-European mindset?) to tell them how to grow the Statue Race. That's the mentality that killed Objective 100.
In the 2006 race, we made it to about 86 boats. Mistakes were made (allowing larger cats to participate, that would capsize in the harbor and cause trouble with the coast guard). Any mistake made provided ammunition for the old guard to make their argument to "keep it small".

I left Sandy Hook Bay Club the year after the first O-100 race. I left the O-100 debacle for what it was: a great idea killed by small mindedness. But when I saw this post, I figured people have a right to know what happened. Also, for all the young kids out there with energy and ideas...don't let the guys (and gals) with "experience" kill your spirit and your ideas.

I'm sure this post will raise a storm of comments from SHBCC. I can only say that I raised these concerns many times with their commodore and never saw a change from the leadership. I also may not be the best racer, I may not even be a good sailor, but I know for sure that only one ingredient was missing to grow Objective 100 to American greatness: It was a lack of ambition.

Good move, Thomas. I do not want to add to this except:



I think it was excellent advertizing (we got the NY Times!), just something spectacular to watch sailing and a different way to handle the race for the future.


They got it: 30 boats this year, nothing to be proud of.


Yes, the old guard killed this, among other things, including a sailing school project.


Actually more people drinking beer on the beach than really into sailing at this club.

I really admired what you guys were doing and how successful you were at promoting this event - you set a standard for which other struggling events should draw experience from. Your marketing vision was terrific and I think you guys had a great idea.

With that in mind, there is an area of marketing that it doesn't sound like was successful - the internal marketing. People happy with the status quo are quite the challenge. You guys have a terrific idea, hit an impressive goal, and have given us all a few things to learn from. I hope to see you keep working on it.

Rick and I have never heard of this Objective 100 thing. We don't have a clue what you guys are talking about. Is this something that was going to replace the Statue of Liberty Race?

It was the Statue of Liberty race - they had set a goal to get 100 boats on the line (and nearly made it). I'm almost certain they bought a catsailor ad in the magazine and had a banner here on the site for a while.

Okay. The Catius post made it sound like it was a whole new race, new concept, new organizers. And I don't think I have ever heard the actual term "Objective 100." I just remember the Statue organizers were trying to get 100 boats to the regatta one year. There's nothing unusual about that -- a lot of major regattas try for a goal like that.

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/showflat...=true#Post79039

Sorry, but I had never before heard of this idea of making the Statue of Liberty Race into a world-famous race like the Around Texel, and starting with 100 boats and growing it every year.

It does not surprise me, though, that others within SHBCC would be opposed to doing that.

Objective 100 was more of an internal term we used.




Can you elaborate?

Well, the bigger the event and the more hype for it and the more boats that come, the greater the potential liability problems for the organizers.

No comparison with the Around Texel, which is empty water. New York Harbor is full of all kinds of traffic, both recreational and commercial. And I would imagine that the recreational traffic is worse than usual on a 4th of July weekend.

Fog has been a problem in past Statue races. Traffic and fog don't mix well.

I'm saying that the "old guard" who have been running this race for 30 years (I think that's what was said), have a better handle on the dangers of this race. The mere thought of trying to build it into a race with hundreds of catamarans in a commercial harbor like that does not sound like a good idea to me.

Races like the Round the Island and the Texel usually bring out lots of people who are not experienced racers and are just doing it for a once-a-year fun event. With lots of aggressive promotion, the same thing could happen for the Statue race, and it's just not safe.

In the Texel, and some other distance races, the sailors only have to worry about themselves and other catamarans. In the Statue of Liberty Race, they also have to worry about being run over by freighters and ferries and miscellaneous other boats.

Mary, these are definitely fair points. Agree this is not a race for inexperienced sailors, but is this not something that can be solved by very clear and explicit communication (e.g. on the notice of race - "ONLY for experienced catsailors / racers"). Communication goes a long way and is cheap - only it costs some effort. Are people not smart enough to make their own decisions and to stay away from race with very explicit warnings? And even if you keep the race small, nothing prevents from crazies to show up at the starting line either...we've seen this happening as well. The question may be more about selectiveness than about how many boats are at the start. We were looking to bring in sailors from all over. People traveling from Texas or NC for the Statue Race probably have a pretty good idea what they're signing up for. We saw first hand that these were very good sailors. The ones we have to worry about are the local crazies (and the large cats, which are easy to eliminate by setting a 20 ft limit).
Also...the Objective-100 was about more than getting x number of boats to start. It was about bringing a different level of organization and a different / better experience for participants - especially for those who traveled from far. That has nothing to do with harbor safety or fog. I agree the Statue Race cannot become a 400 boat event like Texel...of course not. But 100 boats is a reasonable goal and making it a GREAT race (great in every sense of the word) rather than a mediocre event was definitely an achievable goal.
People in 2006 had a fantastic time...it was great to be part of it and tons of participants SAW the difference and told us so.
Once the SHBCC race management changed in 2007, no one even bothered to check in and ask if we could help with the next Statue Race. Oh well...there will always be reasons to maintain the status quo, and some people are just very good at finding those reasons instead of finding answers. Everyone has their own little niche.

Ahh, LIABILITY

The most frequent excuse to do nothing... As a result, in many places in the world, cat sailing is getting bigger, sailing schools are successfull, but here? The thing is just shrinking and disapearing or at best stagnating. Look at the recent F18 worlds, it will give you an accurate picture.

Right, better stay at home and watch TV, it is safer.

Being cautious is not too bad. Because of our litigious (sp?) society I can no longer get insurance for my workers. An employee filed a bogus claim (trust me it is) and because I only have one or 2 at a time they consider me too high of a risk. Now IF I can find it, I can't afford it... all because someone wants a free ride on my dime. Of course those who just work for a check have no clue what it takes to run a business. So now we'll have to "stay home and watch TV" because of the "liability".

Walk in the shoes before complaining.

Clayton

We're talking talking about the Statue Race here, not about a business. There's always waivers you can make people sign and if I remember well, we did so at the S/R.

But there is a point here...Liability becomes often times an excuse that kills a lot of new ideas. I don't think it was the main reason with the Statue Race, but it was definitely talked about. It goes back to the TYPE of sailors you get at the starting line (i.e. experience), not necessarily the quantity. What's riskier - 20 newbies sailing their dilapidated H16's or 100 experienced sailors on a bunch of Tigers and I20? If I was the insurer, I would know which one to pick.

Also - I worked for 14 years for corporations in Europe and the US, now run my own business. What I've seen is that the "liability" argument is very easily made in corporations...as an excuse to do nothing or to be able to say "I told you so...". It's definitely a valid concern, but it's also all too often raised by the "can't do" type of people.

Saftey can't be the major issue... Waves and Hobie 14's are allowed in the race!

Hey Mark, come sail my 14 in good wind for awhile, you really have to pay attention. You'll be gratefull for a bigger boat. But what the heck, I love it, otherwise wouldn't have sailed it for 25 years!!!!

Ryan

What do you mean by "crazies"?

Let's say people who come out on the race without an appreciation for the risks. Their boats may not have had any rigging changed in 10 years, they may have leaks, they have not thought about any spare parts, they don't bother listening to the safety briefing. There's not many, but they do exist and they have been known to show up for the Statue Race.

I was there in 2006, doing my part to help meet the "Objective 100" goal. I double-stacked my Tiger with another Tiger from my fleet and we made the drive from Detroit.

Here's why I won't go back:
- The conditions were perfect in 2006; records were set (I finished third or fourth on actual time and I even beat the old record by a few minutes). Those conditions are unlikely to repeat for several years.

- The drive time / sail time ratio is silly. 24 hours of driving for 3 hours of sailing. Yeah, I know it was a record year, but still - I spent more time setting up / taking down the boat than I did sailing.

- The trophies sucked. For 2nd place on corrected time, I received a 2"x3" plaque that cost maybe $10. I'm not normally one to bitch about the trinkets, but those are not appropriate for an event that had 86 entries.

"Objective 100" was a great idea, but it's not sustainable. You became a victim of your own success.

at least you got trophies...oh...did I say that outloud?

(I'm not talking about the Statue Race).

Okay, so those are the people you call crazies? You are also saying that these are "local" crazies, so I assume that means they are members of Sandy Hook Bay Catamaran Club. And this is their own club's race. So I would assume that the "local crazies" are going to want to participate in their club's Statue of Liberty Race. So how do you tell them they cannot participate in their own club's race that they are hosting?

Talk about milking the cow.

You should have gone this year if the "ratio" is important to you. We drove 750 miles and spent 7.5 hours in the race. BTW, we came a day early and sailed to Coney Island and back the day before. Plan to sail more than just the race and the "ratio" gets much better.

Un-beknownst to us, Northern NJ is very charming and has lots of neat things to see. Dashing in and out you miss much...at any regatta destination.

The trophies were great this year. Of course if you want a really nice one you have to do better than 2nd!

Oh no, Mary is not milking the cow. Your buddy in the petroleum thread is milking the cow my friend.

Catius, Sandy Hook obviously isn't the right fit for this event. Why not go independent or find a club/venue that has similar goals.

Don't know what you mean, but this conversation is about a very serious problem, and one that you, as a member of the Coast Guard, take very seriously, as well.

Milking the cow can be used to describe attaining the absolute most from any given situation.

Sometimes called 'milking the cash cow', 'milking the cow' can also be applied to any franchises which continue to drain the public of as much cash as possible and attempt to attach the brand name to absolutely everything, be it cereal, video games, car adverts, tshirts, bedsheets, plush toys, action figures, computer accessories or anything else that would be seemingly unrelated.

Thanks, Dave.

I travel to a lot of regattas - 750 miles is not out of the question for me on a weekend (Hobie MWE was over 1000 miles - left on Thurs, back to work on Monday). Because I do a lot of regattas, vacation time is at a premium (which is why I do stupid stuff like drive to FL for a weekend).

For the 2006 Statue Race, we drove to the event (650 miles) on Saturday, July 1 and set up the boats, raced on Sunday and packed up the boats, took the ferry over and toured NYC on Monday and drove home on Tuesday, July 4. I didn't use a single day of vacation to do the event, which was important to me.

Yeah, the first place trophy is nice, but it's a perpetual one that you don't get to keep. I hold the record for the fastest time of a boat under 20', but I got nothin' to show for it.

If you're not first you're last - Ricky Bobby

<<<<Yeah, the first place trophy is nice, but it's a perpetual one that you don't get to keep.>>>>>

Yes, but it has your name on it when you give it back.




<<<< I hold the record for the fastest time of a boat under 20', but I got nothin' to show for it. >>>>

You have the memory don't you? And you also have a forum so you can bring it up now and then. Trophies are nice but they gather dust and have to be polished.

Whatever we want to call them. If you take offense at the term "crazies" (which was intended with humor), call them something else...
You don't want to get into forbidding people to enter the race (unless there's blatant safety reasons of course), but would clear and explicit requirements about required experience and condition of the boat on the race notice and during safety briefing not work you think? Or you think people will still ignore? The point is to get participants to take safety very seriously and to make'm assess their own skills / equipment against those requirements...

You can debate this of course, you can say that people will still start, you can say that this was already done in the past (but not to the degree I am talking about)...this is all hypothetical because SHBCC doesn't care about growing the race anyways.

Ok - I was going to look at the 2008 Notice of Race on the shbcc website and this is what I found (check under "Statue Race"):

http://www.fleet250.org/

Not sure where the awesome 2006 website content went.

The cow is drying up.

If people feed the trolls they will come.

hakuna matata ... bitches - Jean Girard

Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Bluto

There will always be the naysayers.
When a few people in our Fleet wanted to do a Nationals on our little lake, we were told that it couldn't be done.
Some members claimed it would be a failure and bankrupt our Fleet.
I assured them we would open a separate bank account and only spend the registration and raffle money from the event.
Well, we had a very successful H17 Nationals in 1994 and then again in 97 combining H16 Women and Youth.
Funny how the naysayers had so many ideas on how to spend the money we made from the events.
We ran an Alter Cup from a lawn with a ramp built off of a break wall.(couldn't be done once again)
Footnote: The ramp did get destroyed the day after the event ended.
We were told that there was no way we could fit a H16 Nationals on our lake. The 2004 16 Nationals were also very successful.
None of these events were easy to do,but things can happen if you pull together the right people and just move forward.

If you say it can't be done you will always be right.
Some old Chinese guy

Ever since #2 son moved to Brooklyn to begin grad school in August '06 I thought "wouldn't it be cool to drag a boat up and do the Statue race?" We returned home yesterday, from NYC, and after viewing the harbour from the Governor's Island and Staten Island Ferries, the Brooklyn Heights pier, and the base of the Verrazano Narrow's bridge...you guys ARE crazies!!! What's the width at the bridge? Maybe a mile? All those ferries are bookin' fast, along with tugs/barges (moving and moored), cargo and cruise ships, plus all the other (100' and under) activity. What if you did break something? Ground crew? Ha...out of the question. Not sure my heart would withstand the adrenaline boost from the Narrows on. You all have a new found respect from me! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Maybe it is just the current officers, and attitudes will change when new people take over.

That is the way it has been in every club we have ever belonged to. Usually, all you can do is work from within to get your own faction of people into officer positions so you can pursue your agenda. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

To My Fellow Sailing Competitors,

I have never raced a race just so I could win a Trophy.

( and Matt that is not why you have done so much for our sport either . You are “selling yourself short”, I know you to be a much better man then that, Sir. )

I’ve always entered and competed in the “Statue Race” to go and see Lady Liberty …. especially in 2002 !!!! I will repeat what I said earlier in another thread ….

“Once you have sailed around Lady Liberty, you will never view life the same …” (you will never again take for granted the freedom and the sacrifices of those that have proceeded us for granted )

With that said, it is a SERIOUS race w/ a lot of risks … You are the “Mouse among the Elephants” …. There are very strong currents …. Everything is bulkheaded, ie: washing machine conditions …. Safety/Safe Haven only lies outside the The Narrows/Verrozano Bridge ….

This is not an event to be entered into lightly !!!! …. And should be prepared for w/ the same diligence as any “distance” race … ex: New England 100, Chesapeake 100, Down the Bay, The Tybee … etc,etc.

As my sailing partner is my niece currently, who is 13yrs old this year … I have not entered this event lately …. But maybe next year when she is 14, I think we will go and see “The Lady” ….

( The next goal is to take her to Florence Italy … to see “The David” ….. )


Sail Safe, Sail Flat, Sail Fast
HarryMurphey
TheMightyHobie18/ #9458, Fleet54/Div11
P19MX/ #86, CRAC

PS: you may think me philosophical ... or crazy ... or even just plain stupid ....

Mary, You are right about that. It's true for most things. I witnessed my town government get completely changed by just such a strategy. It took a lot of patience and diplomacy, but was a real revolution! Matt, You are a true inspiration! I always admired you as a sailor of remarkable skill, but to witness your commitment to the sport in your schedule, and in your giving back as an official at events, the magazine, your work for NHCA... you amaze me! As for Pat, if you don't know he's a Fleet 204 guy. I belong to Fleet 448, but have been known to chant "204!204!204!" because they are perhaps the most successful cat club in the country. If you want advice on growing the sport, or how to run events, listen to Pat.

Historical Note/Question:

Does anyone else find it ironic that is was the French that helped us earn our FREEDOM w/ their fleet at "The Battle of the Capes" allowing George Washington w/ his army to capture General Cornwallis w/ his army at Yorktown ...

Then later gave us our greatest symbol of our FREEDOM ....

THE STATUE of LIBERTY .....

Harry

I find it VERY IRONIC!!!!!

The French have certainly changed since colonial days!!!

Back to the good old French bashing... Business as usual. boring ...

So have the Americans. I'm guessing obesity ran less than 30% in colonial times - as did energy consumption and consumer debt.

Stay on topic troll...

Hey, let's keep the "twinkie bashing" out of it, okay? I mean, what have those little cholesterol/sugar bombs done to you (besides obesity, diabetes, coronary disease, etc)?

The reason colonialists were so scrawney is that no one had the time to invent the Twinkie. They were too busy wasting time working on independence, building a nation, etc.

If they only had their priorities in order, they'd have enjoyed the Twinkie and Ho-ho long ago... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Quote:

"In the 2006 race, we made it to about 86 boats. Mistakes were made (allowing larger cats to participate that would capsize in the harbor and cause trouble with the coast guard)."

What kind of statement is that? Are you telling me that only large cats can capsize in the harbor and cause trouble with the Coast Guard? In a latter post, large cats are defined as anything over 20 feet.

If memory serves me correctly, either a RC30 or 27 capsized under a bridge and the mast was stuck in the mud. The sailors on the cat were very experienced and accomplished. It was unfortunate that the cat could be righted in a more timely manner. Was this a mistake by the crew, the club for not having more support on the water or not informing the crews of the strong winds and shallow waters around the bridge or the Coast Guard not knowing what to do to help the capsized cat? Is the water under the bridge shallow enough that this could happen to cats less than 20 feet? Who would not like to race against the larger cats?

In other posts, New York Harbor is described as a dangerous place for cats to sail. The allure of the race is a chance to sail around a national landmark that has some significant symbolism. In all probability if this race continues, another incident will occur and it will cause a problem. At least for the RC30, no one was injured other a few egos.

I was hoping one day I would be skilled enough to enter the race and to sail around Lady Liberty. From the way people portray the dangers, it is not worth risking lives in a dangerous port where the cat is a slow moving object in commercial traffic zones.

Regards,

Steve

AFAIK, the RC 30 did not have its mast stuck in the mud:

We saw it on the way into the harbor, not long after it flipped.

Here's a photo taken less than an hour later of the righting operations:


BTW, they were not the only boat to capsize in the harbor. A NACRA F18 capsized jibing around the statue - we passed them to take the F18 lead in the race.

The critical issue is not the size of the catamaran, it's the ability to self rescue in a short period of time.

Also, New York harbor is not "unsafe" for catamarans. It's a busy place. The currents are tricky. The wind is weird. You've got to keep your head out of the boat and pay attention to what's going on around you. Other than a close call with an anchored barge (I swear the thing was like a magnet), we had no problems navigating the harbor.

Mbounds, if the RC30 mast was not grounded then your statement on 7/5/06 was incorrect? If the mast was not grounded then why couldn't the experienced crew right the RC30?

"We were distracted with some spinnaker sheet issues after we jibed away from Staten Island, so we didn't see it go over, but Paul K. saw it blow over in a gust. He said it looked like nobody blew the spin / main sheet since neither was flogging as it went over. We ended up going by them right after it happened (like 20 ft away - not intentionally - that's just where the spinnaker took us ) and asked them if they were OK. The chase boat was already there.

After we rounded the Statue and came back, they were still there. A NYC Harbor Police boat was circling and they had the RIB from the club assisting in the righting process. They were definitely stuck on the bottom - almost turtle, but one hull up about 4 ft.

Late that afternoon, I saw them back at the beach with the sails down. The mast looked OK - even clean. "

In retrospect, they probably didn't ground the mast - the photo of them lying full turtle and the comment that the "mast was clean" and undamaged is evidence of that.

I don't care how experienced the crew was - you cannot right an RC 30 without outside assistance (see the photo on the proper technique to right a large catamaran). The fact that they did right it in fairly short order is evidence of their experience.

How many times have you sailed in the last 3 years Jacques???? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Easy to answer: I sold my boat last fall. Sailed a lot last summer, did the statue race and finished 5th on the beach (beating many I20s). This year, well, as I am busy with my building, I consider anything else like a distraction. I still sailed on the stiletto three weeks ago, but to be honest, my heart is not anymore into it. I do not even talk about the previous years when I was heavily into sailing and racing because of my officer position and because I love it.
I am doing the national corsaire in France next week (70 boats), the schooner race in october in Annapolis, so, you see, there is a life beside the club.

By the way, who are you, courageous anonymous?

They got it: 30 boats this year, nothing to be proud of.

I'm glad we didn't have anywhere near 100 boats this year, as the weather conditions (very light, storms threatening) would have made keeping track of a large number of boats impossible. I do remember the Objective 100 committee stating they were only responsible for the promotion of the event, not the actual logistics of running the event, so this wouldn't have been their problem. If you have a problem with the way the club is being run, come to a meeting and voice your concern.

Is the number of boats your sole criteria for judging an event?

Absolutely false. I was the O100 manager AND the Race officer. We were completely in charge of the event including all the safety aspects.

As far of the fleet meetings, I have understood a long time ago that the democratic process in this club has been completely corrupted, so I am not interrested anymore to spend energy to fight with the same people over and over. I moved on.

Who are you? I would like to compare your record with mine.

You are not a member anymore?

So why are you bringing up crap from several year's ago? Apparently you still spend a lot of your time bashing the club. We have an objective 150 - to get 150 boats registered on the beach - we are at 135, so we're getting close. There are 10 new members this year, and we have been over 130 boats for the last 8 years. Each member has his/her own expectations as to their experience at the club - some like to race, some like to hang out and sail casually. We cannot force people to do anything, and this is why the club is so successful. I guess the "old guard" must be doing something right - just because it is not what you want doesn't make it wrong.

Read the thread:

"Also...the Objective-100 was about more than getting x number of boats to start. It was about bringing a different level of organization and a different / better experience for participants - especially for those who traveled from far. "

But if you didn't get it then you probably won't get it now.

Has been done. I came to several meetings in 2006 - prepared and all. Maybe the problem is not that concerns were not voiced...Maybe they were not heard. Maybe they were ignored because they were raised by people outside the circle. Hard for you to recognize, I know.

Anyway I think it's pathetic that you have to create a new ID just to stay anonymous here. It says everything about you.

what's pathetic is for someone who hasn't been a member since 2006 to post offensive comments about an organization he is no longer associated with.

I brought it up because someone on this forum was wondering whether O-100 was still alive. No one was calling this "crap", just you.



Do the 135 include the boats that you schlep to the beach each spring and where the mast is never even raised for the season. Do the 135 include the junk boats and junk trailers on the parking lot? The club is a great solution for anyone who doesn't want their junk in their front yard. 150 members is a great goal (especially if you want to call yourself the "largest catamaran club in the world" - as I saw on one brochure in the past) - but it's not a real metric for success and it's not a metric for the vitality of the club as a sailing club. Maybe it's a good metric for a social club or for a retiree club, where people just want to "hang out", but if you want measure success for a sailing club, look at least how often members take out their boats, keep a log book, look at race participation, whatever, just define a metric that reflect some aspiration instead of something that just measures whether you're going to meet your budget.

What's offensive here? I'm stating facts and opinions. Where are the personal attacts that you are so offended by? You just don't like to hear criticism...that doesn't mean I am offending you.
And what's so pathetic about speaking up here? I put a lot of heart into this event, dude. I have every right of speaking up here. Sorry. Member or no member, unfortunately you can't censor me.

Just so people can enjoy what a class-act you are, here's one of your 2006 gems on Sailing Anarchy (post #21 - also created with a brand-new SHBCC anonymous ID):

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=38994&hl=shbcc

Please don't come back and deny it's you...now that would be pathetic.

Your kidding, right?? Maybe we should put barcodes on the boats and scan them every time they leave the beach and return. Have you ever ran a club with 300 members from diverse backgrounds with greatly varying interest levels in sailing? We provide the venue and many opportunities for all members to sail and participate in fleet events. Whether they choose to do so is beyond our control. All we can do is provide the best opportunity we can. Hundreds of hours are invested in planning and executing the operation of the club every year. Very few realize the personal sacrifice made by the officers to benefit the members. Since only a small percentage of members enjoy racing, does it make sense to expend a great deal of the club's resources on a single day event in which only a small percentage take part in? Many fleets do not have a "home beach" and the "Big Regatta" is their only chance to host an event. SHBCC has events almost every weekend in the Summer; this requires a great deal of work, and perhaps this is one of the reasons an O-100 type event is not looked upon as the primary reason for the club to exist. It's like a gym membership - how many people sign up and pay and never go? Does this make the gym a "bad gym" or a "social gym"? NO. There are still people who show up every day to work out. Those who do not lose out.

I don't know what metric we could use to define the club numerically. Our goal always has been and will continue to be to provide a safe venue for sailing and to promote and encourage sailing and boating generally. We welcome all members who agree to abide by the rules. Our best indicator is the smiles on peoples' faces when they come back to the beach after flying a hull in a 15 knot SW wind. We all sail for different reasons, remember that - what is important to you may not matter to someone else. As for the comment that our primary goal is to reach our budgeted numbers, this is true to a certain degree. Maybe if we sailed in Fantasyland, we wouldn't have to worry about revenue - but unfortunately, there is rent, insurance, utilities etc. to pay and we must keep our eyes on the numbers, or the club might not be sustainable for future sailing seasons. We need $XXXXX to just pay the fixed expenses. Without a stable fiscal platform, we wouldn't even be able to host a 5 boat regatta.

"You just don't like to hear criticism...that doesn't mean I am offending you."


Criticism can't offend me? I am the judge as to what does and doesn't offend me. Who said anything about personal attacks? Here is some criticism I have - Why was it so hard for you to abide by the simple club rule to not rig your boat on the beach wheels? You were told over and over again not to do this, but you did it anyway. Remember when you almost gave a 70 yr. old gentleman a heart attack because you refused to listen to him concerning this rule? I hope this criticism doesn't offend you. This shows what a "class act" you are, since you had to bring that up.

Whoever officer you are, you do not act as you should.

Nastiness, cowardice and personal attacks have nothing to do with these responsibilities.

We already experienced that with your little friend Justin, and we are all FED UP.

I did not start this attack - I am only replying to a post that obviously would stir up [censored] - It is OK for you to attack and criticize, but if someone responds he is nasty and a coward?

I should know better than to jump in the midst of this .. but you guys have a rule that you can't setup your boats while it's on cattrax!? I don't set mine up any other way and do everything I can to keep the hulls from touching the ground.

Jake, I was thinking the same thing. What is it about setting a boat up while its on cattrax that's dangerous or opens the club up to liability in such a degree that they'd have to legislate against it?

There are several issues: 1) damage to the axles and bearings when members stand on their tramp to rig the boat while it is on wheels. Unlike personally owned wheels, our wheels are subject to the use and abuse of as many as 50 people in the course of a day - it is hard to imagine what some people are capable of doing to a set of wheels. We purchase a few new sets just about evey year and have a wheel captain who has to spend several hours a week repairing and maintaining the wheels. 2) The experience level of our sailors varies from newbies to national champions. Twice in the past, we have incidents where a boat was being rigged on the wheels, and a gust came and pushed the boat along on the wheels and the boat flipped, hitting people in the head - twice we had to call an ambulance to render medical assistance. Luckily, the injuries were not serious. 3) People also leave their boats on the wheels with the sails up and and go and eat lunch or whatever... again, we have had squalls and gusts come through and flip boats that were sitting on wheels with the sails up - this also has happened more times then I care to remember 4) and finally, other people are waiting to use the wheels to move their boats - if they are under your boat while you rig for 20 minutes, they are not available for use by other fleet members. The easiest way to deal with this is to simply require that you do not rig your boat on the wheels.

Ahhh...OK. They're loaner wheels. Yeah, I've let people use my wheels a time or two and I get real frustrated watching them rig with the wheels under the boat while I wait impatiently for the use of my own wheels.

I am not offended...don't worry...it takes a little more. In case you care to know: When 70 year old gentlemen feel entitled to yell and scream at a new member, I try not to hear them. And that's what I told him - to talk normally to me. He only freaked out more and became more hysterical. Whatever his risk is for heart attacks...that's something he and his family should worry about. I'm sure his doctor advised him not to get overexcited. I actually respect this guy, but that one time he misjudged me in a big way by throwing his little tantrum on the beach.

Frankly...I think whatever point I wanted to make about the Statue Race has already been made. It's turning into a vicious fight. This is my last post on this topic.
There a lot of good things about SHBCC, they are all great people and the old guard has put in years of effort to maintain the club. Being so close to NYC and in a major metropolitan area, this club should be THRIVING. 150 members should be piece of cake to sign-up in an area with 15 million people and so few sailing venues. If it ain't happening, if there's not a waiting list to get in, something's wrong. You're below potential and you're being complacent.
There are also many issues and a lot of dissatisfaction with members SHBCC. This post is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm not going to make the laundry list of complaints here. This is probably the first time that criticism is voiced so publicly. But guys at SHBCC...don't stick your head in the sand and deny, deny, deny...Where's there's smoke, there's fire. A lot of people think things can be better and are willing to work for it. But if you just push them out of the circle, you're going to keep on stagnating in the same place you've been for years. If you cannot understand the "vision" that other people have, at least give them a platform to explain instead of mocking and boycotting them.
If this was a case study for how to deal with a public relations crisis, you've failed the test. You immediately went on the defensive, you've attacked your critics, you don't bother to actually understand what's really going on.
I'd be happy to come back to an officer's meeting and have this conversation.
Roger that?

Dont worry, I know who you are.

You are a coward because you hide.
You are nasty because you attack on a personal level and you lie.

Anyway, it tells a lot about the friendly ambiance at the club, and as an officer you failed miserably.

A little touch of class would have helped.

Jaques
Why do you care so much about a club where most members don't even want you around. If you don't have anything nice to say about Fleet 250 Don't call Don't write and Don't stop by.

Exactly. Chase away any member that doesn't agree with you or that dares to raise his voice. When I (and 3 friends of mine, who meanwhile left as well), joined the club, we all noticed one person who was very welcoming and engaging. And it definitely wasn't you, Mr. Xenophobic French Fry. SHAME ON YOU.

Post deleted by THE_DUDE

The same guy, registering over an over with different Ids, just to spit his venom and pretending there are many people like him. He has his specific style for sure...

Post deleted by THE_DUDE

BTW, its loser.

I dated a girl who was a looser, or was she just a bit looser? Something like that.

Ummm........
No I meant like:
LA LA LOOOOOOOOOOOOZER !!!
Get it now?
Duh! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Ok,

I see that the Dude had the decency to delete his posts which were absolutely out of line. Thank you Dude.

I will stop there, but before I want to say this:

Having been the race officer for four years has been a great thing for me. I really enjoyed it and without bragging I can take credit for several accomplishments:

the chase boat
the scoring system
good attendance and a real excitement at the fleet racing program.
Overall, the job properly done and my presence and participation to every race.

There was also exciting new ideas like the formula weekends, Objective 100 and the sailing school which unfortunately were not followed up or supported by the fleet.

My biggest regret is about the sailing school for which I managed to get a 30K grant from the NJ state and was a very solid project. I could have brought a lot to the club: new members, a closer relationship with the town and ,above all, a future and a perspective.

That is why when asked why I care so much for this club I can answer this: I invested so much time and energy and believed so much in these kind of new ideas that this is true, I am disapointed by the current direction of the club and concerned that one day this lack of projects will mean the end of it.
As Thomas said, this club is a great sailing place and deserve the best. Goals and objectives could be a lot more than just fill the beach.
I know that diplomacy is not my biggest strength, but I consider that sometimes, criticism, if constructive can make things change for the best. Obviously, some people got hurt by me at one point, my apologies. Behind this, I have allways known that there was some kind of antifrench feeling but after this serie of post, I understand it is a lot deeper than I thought, and explains better why so many sticks in my wheels.

One day, I published in a club news an article about the fleet and the need for a sailing school. The main word was "what does not regenerates, degenerates". That is still true and will always be.

OK, man.
You are a big enough person to apologize.
Which, I accept.
And I want to apologize as well.
I hope you accept.
You did make me mad with some of your posts.
I also tried to delete my last post, but it has been up for over 6 hours (beyond the edit time), so I am sorry about that.
Please though, do not keep saying this anti-France stuff.
All of the members are from a very diverse background, race, religion, nationality, and work background.
I really do feel that there is positive energy down here, and people go out of their way to make others feel accepted.
I happen to love the French.
I love their food, their wine, their women, and their culture.
You should know, that all the people I have spoken to think that you were an excellent race officer, and that you are more than welcome at the club, and would not mind if you ran our races again.
We are in a heat wave, why don’t you come down for a cold drink a some good sailing.
Let’s stop this bantering on this web-site, and enjoy the Jersey Shore!
Vous êtes un homme goon. Laissez-nous partie!
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I just wander why so many people called 2006 to be last year of their membership...

Vlad
Not a member since 2006