A trend toward smaller boats and singlehanders?

Seems like there is a growing trend toward singlehanders and smaller boats. What are the reasons for this?

I can think of a lot of reasons, but I would like to hear yours.

Single handers:

1, Crew problems
2, People are busy and so cannot commit to sailing every weekend and so finding and keeping a good crew is difficult (this is why I went Single handed about 8 years ago)

Smaller boats

1, Easier to manage on the beach
2, Speed of smaller boats is getting closer to the big boats and so you can get the same amount of speed in a smaller boat.

Agree with Scooby's points. I myself have 2 single-handers.

For me, it is the simplicity. I can be setup in half the time, no worry about who and what is going to crew with me, when they're going to get there. If I can get off work at lunch-time at the last second, I can be sailing Friday evening with no questions. Conversely, if I have to work until 8pm Friday I can manage that too. Lastly, I'm in complete control of the amount of training and skill it takes to become better at it. The maintenance and upkeep on the simpler boat is actually less $$ in my case too (at least in the short term).

During the Harken races this past winter (in Dunedin, FL) My friend and I watched with AMAZMENT as these 70+ year old guys lifted the mast off the boat (while standing on the beach, in front of the beam), and lowered it solohanded, without a pin to pivot it. Actually, both our jaws dropped (literally).

I asked if i could feel its weight and he said "sure, but it will cost you $20,000 after you fall in love with it (to purchase an A-cat)".

If it wasnt for the cost.. i would love one. I would still want to have a boat i can take crew / gear out on (even though i sail solo 90%) ... so this is really a "post lotto dream".

The first time I took my mast down, I thought something was hung up because it was at 60 degrees and I was still having to pull it down....it was the breeze.

I can rig and de-rig my F16 mast with ease.

1. Every time I lift my 165 pound A-cat, my back says "Thank you Very Much!"
2. My wife says she is too old to crew (65? COME ON!)
3. The Hot Hobie Chix- the crews of yesteryear are gone away somewhere, married, overweight, too old too. OOp-- politically incorrect - but Back in the Day, not so much.

Still I will always treasure that white crocheted bikini....twas '72 Mount Dora, I know.

I love sailing with someone else who knows what they are doing in high winds. However, if I only sailed with someone else I would sail about half as much. I used to think I wouldn't like sailing solo but I certainly do. I couldn't do it if my boat weighed more than it does. Pointless to have a boat you can sail solo but still need 2 people to get it in and out of the water.
As more people feel the thrill of sailing solo downwind with the spin up from the wire I think more and more people are going to be interested in single handed spin boats.

I've seen a migration from 'bigger' boats too.

To quote a Melges 24 sailor in SF that just bought a brand new H16. As I slapped the invoice on the counter, he remarked, "That's what a main costs for my other boat."

J

Congrats on the sale (not sail)... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

i didnt know people bought new H16's... i just assumed they ALL came "used".... lol

what is the going rate for a new h16?

Well, my 16 isn't exactly small or light, but I can single hand it just fine.

The big thing is lack of crew. I practically have to get on my knees and beg people to come crew.

For this reason, I think my next used boat is going to be a Mystere 4.3. Just so I can handle it more easily myself.



I want to say about 10,000 clams.

I think all the reasons have been stated already. But I'd echo them.

I enjoy sailing solo - sail when you want to, go where you want to (events). A major benefit is not being able to pass the buck - I know that any improvement has to come from me.

The smaller / lighter boat just makes the whole thing practical. There's no less sensation of speed, and in fact I think the thrill increases as the boat size reduces. The more I sail the Shadow (solo), the more I love it - it is so responsive, and as a solo sailor you can really become a unit of "man and machine". The Shadow can beat with the best of them (well, maybe not the A Cat), and gives helluva ride downwind in a blow, trapezing with the kite up.

And if we all did it, there'd be twice as many boats at regattas <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Crew issues

That and I always worry that my crew doesn't have their head in the game all the time. Like last year I was coming smoking into the gate on port on a H16. For what ever reason I didn't see 3 H20's stacked up also coming in hot and on starboard. Emergency gybe, and everything was fine. But that could have ended poorly for my crew, getting bashed in the head with a boom, fist whatever. I should have been paying closer attention to traffic, but so should have my crew. I think I looked earlier and assumed that they weren't going to cover that much ground so quickly, and wrote them off as not going to be an issue.

I am also waaaay calmer when I'm by myself. I don't get nearly as wound up, worked up, or pissed off when things are going the way they shouldn't be. In the back of my mind I always think there is something the 2nd person should have done differently, whether there actually is or not. With just me on board its all my fault and I can deal with that.

The only thing I don't like is not having someone to talk to between races.

Wow Karl, perhaps you should switch to the decaf?

Just kidding, i feel the same way.

i get upsed when crew dont do their job correctly (which is everything i want / expect them to do) and would rather do it myself.

I have yelled at almost evert crew that gets on my boat, (and that is very out of character for me.)

My girlfriend will not go sailing with me ever again... and the word "spinnaker" is a dirty word and i am not allowed to utter it!...

I don't have that problem! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I didn't mean to dis any other boat classes. Setting up a Hobie 16 to go solo is still a lot easier than the double handed boats I used to sail. My life is stressful enough and I just want to increase my enjoyment at regattas.

I'm not a yeller. Double handed I don't yell if something is done incorrectly, if and when I yell it is to make sure that I am 100% understood, and there is no question as what needs to be done. Like: "BLOW THE JIB!!!!!!!!!!!!!" when a pitchpole looks inevitable when its howling, or some other unavoidable action needs to take place to save us from certain peril and it needs to be done now.

Is that because you talk to yourself?

I'm not a yeller either! I am only speaking very loud and with expletives to make sure they understand it needs to be done fast and correctly.... (doesn't seem to help when i explain this... i still get a mutiny)

LOL I can picture it now:

[color:"red"]So Jake, how's it going today?[/color]
[color:"blue"]Not bad Jake, doin' some sailing.[/color]
[color:"red"]I see that. Overstood A mark a bit didn't you?[/color]
[color:"blue"]A bit[/color]
[color:"red"]You know, if you were to strangle some prostitutes and bury them down by the river, you'd probably sail better[/color]
[color:"blue"]I don't want to do that anymore.[/color]
[color:"red"]You have to Jake, for us. [/color]

Either i am missing an inside joke, or someone DOES need to switch to decaf!

My tag recently changed from H20 to P15 and I'm "chuffed to bits" <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> with the move.

In the 22 months we had the Miracle 20 we raced a dozen or so points regattas and two NAC's, which was a blast, big fleets here in the midwest and great people racing in them, but other than racing, the boat was sailed I think four times recreationaly. Just too much of a hassle to put together for an afternoons' sail. Traveling away from our immediate area was necessary to race hence rising fuel costs was a bit of a consideration. Making the decision to sell left the backup H16 as the only boat left to rec sail and I don't feel completely comfortable (@75kgs) soloing two-up boats.

My poor man's A/F16/? Prindle 15 weighs 260#'s (reportedly, haven't weighed mine), has a rotating mast, and darn near as fast as a H16 (DP-N 76.2 vs 76.0) Although I'm learning how to tack all over again (I was bestowed the nickname "Iron Man" my first day out), it's very nice to have something I can rig, launch and sail alone when our crew life schedule doesn't allow racing or rec sailing our H16.

Saving pennies for a used A Class.

No inside joke, I don't know Jake personally, it just made me think of the stereo typical schizophrenic killer talking to his other personality. Thats all..... Like the movie: Mr. Brooks?

You need to get out more.

16A Start at Rochester, NY last weekend (that's only 2/3 of the boats on the line - there were 22 in 16A)

There are only two boats in that photo that are more than 5 years old. Eight of them are less than a year old.

My '07 cost $7,500 (white sail hidden behind 110099)

Wasn't it you with the "roses are red" bit about my schizophrenia? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I tried two different smaller single-hand boats, one of which had a spinnaker. In the end, I went back to what I love the most - two-up spinnaker racing where teamwork counts a lot and there are women in the fleet. The downsides I gladly tolerate. I don't fault anyone for the choices they make in this regard - thankfully, there is still a lot of cross-over in the fleets, so I get to see most folks somewhere soon or later.

Still think after talking to Bob Curry a lot I am going to get a Nacra F17 and a jib kit for when I want crew. Good strong boat that an take high wind and be pushed to limit. Now that I have learned the spin on the Mystere 4.3 I am ready for a hotter boat.

Doug

1. My wife enjoys sailing, but would much rather be a passenger than a crew.

2. I can go sailing or racing when I feel like it... or not. No hassles to find crew or disappointment if something else comes up.

3. Eliminates the unknowns of boat balance and sail trim, and someone else's reaction time.

NO it was my evil twin! lol

I may have joked about multiple personalities... but i didnt include chopping up and burying ladies of the night!

I think Jake's more high tech. He probably talks to his Ipod named " the Jake 9000"

I personally think that a well-sailed double hander will always be faster than a well-sailed singlehander - only because the number of activities is subsetted into double the amount of brains and hands.

For example. My Crew trims main MUCH better than I could do it alone while driving. He's constantly looking at telltales and sawing that sheet - making us fast fast fast. He reacts to my changes in course much faster that I could alone, just because thats ALL he's doing upwind whereas my brain would be focused on driving first, and trimming second. He also does a great job of telling me when my driving sucks when his arms get sore <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I used to sail a H17. I hated sailing it alone. I hazard to say that I was bored while sailing solo recreationally.

Haha,...If i "get out" any more often, i will have to live on my catamaran (as i will be out of work/money and a roof over my head) I sail EVERY weekend (year round), usually fri,sat sun... i was being sarchastic (as usual) about the fact that i have never actually seen a NEW catamaran, and have seen 100's of USED hobies.

My first boat was 24 years old, my second was 22 and my curent cat is a baby at 14. Most of the guys i sail with are in the same boat 14-25 year old cats..

I am glad to hear of NEW boats being sold

Tell that to Charlie Ogletree. He SMOKED all of us at the last Texas Catamaran Championship I went to. That A cat made us look like we had Barges for boats. Light A cat will ALWAYS beat a 2 up boat, if sailed right.

Doug

So, what kind of "off the public airwaves" info has mr Curry been feeding ya ?

Wouter

Wouter:

Bob just said F17 would suit may weight better at 210. And he think it is a stronger built boat than the Blade. Still want to sail both of then before I make my choice. Both are great boats, DON'T get me wrong.

Doug

You dont say <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I love sailing two up, working in a team and succeeding as a team. After 8 years on the T it was hard to let that class go, but we had to move on. To be able to improve as sailors, we had to split and get two boats which we can sail alone or to match each others.
Ability to go sailing one up or two up is an enourmous advantage. Being able to take the girls sailing, which was very risky on the T, also counts. In addition smaller boats are cheaper to run as wear and tear is not so large as on the heavier boats. Sails are somewhat less expensive etc. Being able to handle my boat on land without breaking the back is also very important.

So Mitch Booth and his crew choice on a 'T' and Charlie on an 'A' up and down... dude, you're on!

You can't compare Charlie with weekend warriors of course he's going to run circles around the fleet.

Now, if you want to proove you're point put Charlie on an F16 uni w/spin and Mitch and crew on the sloop w/spin and in varying wind conditions on say 10 races and I think you'll find it's a wash... unless of course the F16 uni really is slower than the F16 sloop :-)

I am just looking at the best of both worlds. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> I uni that is competitive THAT you can throw a jib and crew on AND still also be competitive. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> That is why I got out of the two up boat (IE Hobie 16) a long time ago. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I lost my good regular crew and could not find another to replace. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> NOW they have good boats that can be sailed both ways. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I just have to choose which one I want. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Doug

It's been an incredible season for new 16's all over the country. Also the local craigslist is short any decent used Hobies. Seems that gas prices are making people think about selling their stinkpots and bigger sailboats and getting into smaller sailboats. Hopefully it turns out to be like the '70's...for boat sales not disco!

J

Glad to hear!

Finally, an UPSIDE to $4.00/gal gas

I sold my Stingray to get my A because I couldn't go out in rougher conditions with my kids. Then my family couldn't sail with me on the nicer days so I bought the 5.8. The A is fast and responsive but there's no way to describe the feeling of power with the 5.8 <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> My answer is buy two older boats about the same size to double stack in the shed.
regards

The best advice I can give you is to indeed test sail both boats and be sure to do all the beach handling yourself as well. Don't take my word or Bob's word for anything; find out yourself.

The claim that the F17 is better suited to your 210 lbs then the F16 (or even the other way around) is just plain BS. There is absolutely no basis on which to arrive at that conclusion. Really, there isn't. (I'm 198 lbs)

Wouter

That would be one interesting test !

I venture that the conditions will determine the winner here if the crews are absolutely equal with the sloop edging out an advantage in the high end with the uni doing so in the "just single trap" conditions. In the really light stuff and mid range (reasonable trapping) conditions the test will be really tight.

Would love to spectate this one !

Wouter

I recently bought and outfitted a Wave for my family and myself for fun and simplicity.

Now am on the prowl for a bigger boat.

The Nacra 17 or 580 look like the boats for the single-handed, sometimes two-person sailing I want.

To respond to your question, Mary. There are simply too many choices in bigger boats and too many rigging issues and too LITTLE information about the many questions that arise when looking into the bigger boats.

A buyer now, I think, simply throws his hands up and looks for something he can get his head around more simply.

What's the right term for a cat sailor who is into all the tweaks? Like a motor-head to car aficionados or a geek in the computer world... A tramp monkey? A centerboard-head?

It is a market of riddles, and like the thread on pitching boats noted, many people are somewhat more concerned that they NOT pitch, swim, break stuff -- and have a then fascinating (irony here) time putting everything back together -- when it was hard enough to put it all together in the first place.

The cause in my opinion falls at the feet of the builders.

The cat has evolved from the Hobie 14 experience to a myriad of too many choices with too many doodads, and it appears now to be swinging back to the Hobie 14 type experiences but with more power and an desire for more stability.

And if US Nacra doesn't do more marketing and I am going to be a sad man... and just go buy an A Cat.

I have given up on Hobie. If they would import the Hobie 15, I might love them instead.

/rant off

An excellent advantage of a smaller, lighter boat is that encourages wives/girlfriends/children to participate. Everyone likes to go fast and if you can do that on a boat that is easy to rig, confidently rightable by a light crew in all conditions and easy to sail (reasonably light sheet and halyard loads) you have a winner. I think getting the whole family involved could help in the resurgence of the sport.

Of course I have something to contribute here.

The fact that a given boat can be fully tweaked out doesn't mean it has to be to forfill your desires/needs.

I actually see the ability to tweak it out to be an advantage rather then a disadvantage. It adds and extended live to the boat and maintains resell value. Typically there are two ways an owner can go after a boat purchase; reselling the boat later on because "It wasn't for him" and "looking for more performance". Buying a trimmed F16 (just the mainsail), will be a good upgrade from an old secondhander that everybody should start out on, and later on it can always be sold on within weeks or be gradually upgraded along with your new desires. Same thing applied to F18's and other tweaked boats except maybe the A's were all the money is in the basic stuff (carbon hulls and mast) and you can't sail one without every part being on the boat.

Anyway, on a global scale the real world of choices is really small when it comes down to beac cats (able to traverse the surf).

Hobie Wave
Hobie 16
Hobie Tiger
Nacra 500
Nacra Infusion/F18
Nacra I-20
Dart 18
A-cat
F18's from other builders
F16's

All the rest are just local classes with a strong fleet in one location and no where else like the F18HT's and the US version of Nacra 17's, or too disorganised to matter Hobie Fox, FX-one. Others again are just tries by builders to put more models on the water without really supporting them to succes : nacra 450, nacra 580, hobie 15, hobie max and almost the entire big builder listings apart from the craft named above. Sadly designs like the Taipan 4.9 aren't sufficiently supported by the manufacturer as well. And of course Formula 20 is dead by now and all that is left is the Nacra 20 class.

My advice would be to concentrate any choice of boats to the above listing; I see no need or desire that is not covered by that listing with the exception of the niche that F12 could fill (introduce and training young sailors 8-16) to cat sailing in the way the optie and laser dinghy do). Yet the F12 is not ready and won't be for a little while to be on the above listing.

Wouter

In the Northwest, the Hobie 17 fleet continues to grow. We have had five regatta's this year, with the H-17's usually one of the larger fleets. The H-17's signed up for the Hobie Cat North Americans at Harrison, BC, August 25-29 now stand at 20, nearly twice the fleets of H-18's and Tigers.

Caleb Tarleton
H-17 6446

Or put two midgets on the A Class

Smaller, Lighter Singlehanders and Folding!

Hi Everybody,

A-Cat addresses crew problem and boat weight for easy manipulation, but the price is STORAGE ISSUE.
As long as you cannot keep your A-Cat at home, with the carbon mast in a safe place, these kind of boat becomes a problem.
Except 2 clubs in the country, sailing club's managers are not very happy to see A-Cat on the parking.
The reason is obvious, each time you have a big wind conditions, there is always an old laser or similar which
flies across the parking and crashes on your carbon toy.
It triggers many problem between the owner, the club and insurances, that is why A-Cats are usually not welcome.

The solution would be a quick folding boat&mast, stored in a box on the trailer.

For the rig, Ben Hall has provided a very interesting solution considering storage problem. a folding wing has no compression above the hound, so folding does not create any problem, Instead a 2 parts wingmast will be far less optimum than a classic one part model.

It will be probably the same problem for the new 16's with kite and carbon mast.

If in addition we could get a boat with carbon cross-beams plugged into a conical housing (no bolts nor nuts)very easy to put apart, we would get a solution, unfortunatly, not the cheaper one.

As a result, the whole boat could be stored in a big box on the trailer and remained imune of most casualties.

Sorry , my English is far from perfect, I still hope it is understandable.

Good wind to everybody

EK

I started out sailing cats singlehanded 25 years ago on a Catapult. Moved on to a Dart 18, when my sons were old enough to crew. On to the Dart Hawk, and then when the sons got their own cats, I moved to the lighter Spitfire and had some light girls crewing for me. Now my crew has finished college and may not be available all the time, and I'm not sure that I want to commit to attending all the events in a season, so I am going singlehanded once again and only have myself to answer to. The Spitfire has been sold and I am picking up my Shadow in September. I have decided not to go for an "A" because of having to drop the mast after every sail, and not being able to leave the boat unattended on the beach, even for a minute, between races, if there is any wind at all. Also I like having a spinnaker.
One of my sons is probably about to buy an "A", but I feel that the Shadow suits me better.

Get them to park the A between the Nacra's that way nothing will get broken when the Lazers go flying <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Dermot,

welcome to the club. The more I sail my Shadow, the more I love it. It is definately a "Spitfire For One". I think you'll thoroughly enjoy it. I take it you know where to find the Shadow forum, where you'll find lots of advice (not that I suppose you'll need it!). Putting 2 and 2 together, will you be sailing it at the Reg Fest?

At 65 and while trying my best to stay in shap, I discovered lifting a 30' stick was no longer enjoyable or possible lol.
So about 10 years ago I started sailing smaller and lighter cats. I found them much more responsive, faster to set up and take down. But most of all, I like the idea of being totally responsible for the outcome of my efforts, good or bad in a regatta. Finally, the less bells and whistles, the better...

what boat do you sail?

Thanks Simon, Yes I'll be over for the big party <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Hopefully Henry will have the boat beamed up and I will get there in time to rig and race. I will need all the help and advice I can get. I sailed a Shadow about 2 years ago and loved it. It will be tough jumping on to the boat and trying to race it straight off, but I'm sure that I'll learn a lot over the 3 days. See you there ?

Dermot,

yes I'll be there - it'll be good to meet you! I've found the crowd very helpful, as I am sure you will too. It should be quite a bash!

Moved up to a 33 foot monohull. Then to sailboards.
Now happy with a Bravo, with a 16 for when we get time to haul it to a real lake and rig it.
Not sure how much longer I will keep the heavy 22 foot monohull.

Went from a NACRA 5.8 NA w/Spinnaker to a Prindle 18-2 various reason that have already been covered; not always having a crew, being able to drive the boat hard and recover from a capsize single handed, take family out and beach with out worrying about getting the boards and rudders up when beaching and getting back to the simplicty of a Prindle. Most important was having a boat I am comfortable taking my son out when we go camping at some of the lakes in California next summer where if it whips up I will not be overpowered or have the ability to de-power quickly.

I went to the A-Class because it is a single-handed boat. Do not need to find crew. Do need to find more time on the water and more practice. I am what slows my boat down.

I'm just curious, but why does everyone seem to think that they have to go to smaller boats to singlehand?

I know plenty of people who single hand the bigger boats. Aside from capsize recovery, I see no disadvantage to single handing a bigger boat.

If I'm really pushing the boat hard, it's during our Sunday fleet races. We always have a crash boat on Sundays, so I've got plenty of help getting it back up.

I have tried to find the perfect boat but have not. At present this is where I am.
It is an old Tiger Shark twin trap 18' boat the rig of which I have cut down by five feet for one man use.
Boat weighs 110 kilos, mast is only 25 feet and easy to put up and down solo and beats an H17 square top on all points of sail and I am not even trapping on it yet!....have not found other, faster boats to test it against yet....am about to fit a code X hooter.
It is very happy to take a second person for cruising.
Sails are by Chip Buck, thank you Chip..they are great value.
I know it is not a class racer but it is fast, it is easy to move around and it is a blast and with the brand new sails it owes me under 2K and nobody wants to steal the mast! : )

Hi Ryan

Bigger boats have alot more sail area... and that means a lot more horsepower in heavy air... throw in a HUGE spinnaker... and you need raw weight and muscle

I sail solo and using a spin in even light air takes 3 hands .... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Interesting discussion. I am going the opposite direction as I do not want to sail alone. And since all up crew weight will be at least 380lbs and we want to race somewhat competitively, a bigger platform that is not as sensitive to weight is our choice.

I'm definitely part of the trend if that's what it is.
Started moving up to bigger mono hulls from keel boats. Then I noticed I was doing more work fixing things than I was sailing. The birth and winter storage were also expensive, adding nothing to the fun of actual sailing. Besides I can confirm from my experience the sensation of sailing is inversely proportional to the size of the boat!
I bought an old Nacra 5.2 because my budget was very tight, but I probably should have bought an old "A" class because the beach handling is so much easier. Up to now i have spent less on repairs of my old 5.2 than the new stove on my old yacht cost me...

Dennis

Apart from capsize recovery, there is no way I could be competative on a F18 or Hurricane 5.9 in the force 4 or 5 we regularly get here. Even a Spitfire would be a bit much downwind in 25 knots of breeze.

Class rules are a big factor. In F16 there is no minimum crew weight. Also, lighter boats are easier to move around on land.

I cant imagine buying a boat because of their class rules or because they are easier to move around on land.
The difference between a 120kg or 150kg boat is too small to notice.

Lack of crew and more TOW would be big factors for me, unfortunately there is very little competition with singlehanders (Apart from a few A-cats maybe).
Lack of competition is the reason why I sold mine anyway.

You'll be surprised !

My own F16 (homebuild) is 120 kg and I can even tell the difference between my own and the newer 107-110 kg F16's when handling them on land. Especially when putting it on or off the cat trax singlehandedly. The difference between lifting some 50 kg at the bow with one hand or 70 kg is significant.

Currently the F16 sailors are the only ones at my club who walk up their boats on the incline to our "harbour" all others use the electric winch. The difference between a 107-110 kg and a 150 kg in tipping it over to get to the top of the mast etc is also significant. Downside of course is that in a good blow the wind can blow it over alot easier as well. When in doubt I just flip my boat over on the beach and have it lay flat.

But I understand your other points fully. Provided racing is a big consideration for alot of sailors

Wouter

Andrew, I sail a 15' Sea Spray

Gotcha, thanks

My 5.5 weighs about 182 kg (400lbs) without beer! double that with beer! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Andrew,

I suppose I'm just used to light air. We're lucky to see more than 12 knots of breeze at Hueston Woods.

Hello Mary,
I think the trend to singlehanded boats has kept the Isotope Fleet alive for some time. The other reason is that we tend to be too ugly and mean to take on other crew. But after some contemplation who would want a winey crew on your boat in the first place. Anyway Isotopes are still rocking, 32nd nationals in two weeks.

Ohh and what about these Hobie chix??? I may have been born too late.

J.P. Ayers
Isotope 186

LOL

Yes in 12 knots you can single hand just about any cat... in 20... its like riding a bronco. I single handed my cat in 18-20 (mph) friday and sat... i need a massage... (but instead i will go out and sail again today).

Its only supposed to be around 10 knots today (since a front has come through) so i will get to rig my spinnaker... but even at 10 knots... after 30 minutes with it up... my hands will be cramping and hurt.... (I LOVE IT)

After I passed 70, I found it a much harder to find young girls for crew so I had to go the singlehanded route. At 135 lbs and veticaly challenged, the only high tech boat that I can get on and off the trailer, rig and get to the water is the A class. The down side is, now I seem to get a lot of bad decisions from my crew.

Chicks still dig you, Gordon! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> They just can't catch you in that new-fangled A-cat thingy....

This trend, if true, would seem to help promote the F14.

The F14 must be cold to sail as I've travelled everywhere this winter and still havn't seen one <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I heard they have been sold and on the way to WA. Replaced with Blades.

Darryn
Mozzie
1782

If there is a trend towards single handers, do you think there will be more incidents of deaths related to cold water immersions and the inability to right the boats ala Sven Schang? I think the A cats and H14's/Waves should be okay, but what about the F16 class and so forth with a little bigger stick? I personally think most people going single hand are seasoned sailors, but we could have an influx of newbies on sinlge hand boats that may not know the dangers of sailing alone.

One factor that contributes to the rise of single-handers is that the cat sailing community is aging and as we age, we are less likely to have willing crews.

The older we get, the more curmudgeonious we become. That in itself limits our crew possibilities substantially. Family members that can or want to sail with us have long since gone on to more comfortable persuasions. Friends that we used to be able to drag along are now often in retirement homes or have bowel problems.

Yes there are many great young cat people coming in and they generally go straight to the next hot boat when they get serious. That helps bring in enough new blood to keep things interesting, but as a whole, the fleet is shrinking rather than growing.

Single-handing is becoming a necessity for a lot of us and for many diverse reasons.

I love the A-cats but have a Hobie 16 and would rather keep it than switch. I think the 16 is a perfect single-handed boat…easy to transport, rig and sail.

It looks like we will have 5 or more at Hatteras next weekend.

I would never consider this as dangerous…just another challenge.

We have a rule in the F16 class that you MUST be able to right the boat, and you may be requested to show that you can right the boat.

Scooby, sounds like a good rule, but I bet there is no manufacturer that would deny a sell because the chap couldnt self right. I understand the racing end of it, But I also havent seen that rule enforced at any events around here either.
I didnt mean to pick on the F16, just a boat that I see as an up and comer with the single handing crowd, and might be a little big for some of the skiipers to self right, but I could be wrong. What do you F16 guys say. Can you self right in any condition? Can A's be self righted in every condition by all of thier skippers?

Last year I asked the same question to a long time A-cats sailor who sails F16's as well now.

His reply was that the difference in righting is not that big and that both can be hard to right in no wind when you are a lightweight sailor. But in general both were fine.

I have yet to fail righting my F16 singlehandedly in ANY conditions and I have been foolish enough to flip her in drifter conditions. I not a lightweight sailor but I have failed to right other brands in similar conditions with the exception of the A-cat.

I think there is no cat design out there that say a 55 kg sailor can right in absolutely no wind and no waves. It all ends somewhere. I do believe there is ample evidence that A-cats and F16's are the two most easily righted singlehanders on the market today with possibly the Swell Shadow thereabouts as well. I find the Hobie 14 to be harder to right then my F16 for example.

I think the lightweight F16 skippers (below 70 kg) and the guys just above the threshold (70-75 kg)are currently using pillow cases as a small waterbag when they have an alu masted F16 and that seems sufficient for the most challenging conditions (no wind, no waves). F16's can be ordered with carbon masts and quite a few have done so. An F16 owner at my club weighting 72 kg (measured at the F16 GC event of 2007) doesn't and have righted his boat singlehandedly unaided in all times he flipped it. He is now a 3rd season owner and sails reasonably often and quite on the edge (solo trapping under spi etc).

Personally I challenge anyone to righting a Hobie 16 or even Hobie 14 in no wind and no waves. I at 88 kg (194 lbs) have a mixed record in these conditions. In some wind and waves the whole procedure comes increasingly easier. But then again so to does righting the F16's. In a blow I only hang leasurely from the F16 D-striker or righting line, somewhere halveway between upright and flat on the horizontal.

Wouter

I accept your challange... what do i win when I am victorious?

Alright, Mr. Scott. That was entirely uncalled for (as I try to eat mt sandwich) <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

That's just wrong andrew.

I can right my FXone with a bag. It comes right up once its orientated correctly. I don't think I could do it without the bag unless it was really blowing. I'm 160lbs, or 72kg

Ehhh, righting a boat also includes getting back on it and sail away !

Wouter

In reply to Karl,

Same experience here; at the time I was 85 kg, back then in 2001 and 2002. Did about 50-100 hours on that boat in different conditions.

I righted it once singlehandedly without aids in 20 knots wind other times the "rescue boat" at hand had to lift the mast tip up and give it a swing.

Interestingly enough the F16 class got a boost in founding activities during and right after the last week of may 2001 when I was in Greece at this sailing resort. Typed up the first "more serious" mail in a Greek internet cafe with a Greek keyboard. That was an experience in itself.

Wouter

I'll bet that dude's internet id is "cutelittlegirl17" or something like that...