Regards to the sailing public

I came on rough in getaway thread and singled out the F`18 community.That was wrong.Any cat sailing is good sailing and there are enough regatta's at present to satisfy the sailing overall.The Getaway thread triggered a reaction that I have seen going on this thread for a very long time I think "Another Class" to Improve sailing interest.Rick has brought the Wave the simplest possible entry boat that has been succesfully absorbed.Would it not be better for the formula classes to decide(and I know it would'nt be formula then)to pick one design in each class and have it built by many boat manufacturers.It has become very complicated. Mysterio out!

I feel strongly that "another class" will have nothing to do with generating sailing interest. I can drive around withing 5 miles of my house and count 40+ cats sitting in yards etc. There are pleanty of boats - low cost boats out there such that no one can effectively use the cost excuse for not sailing. The key is to create events that people want to come to.

A lot of events have digressed to be purely about the racing as the more hard core racers are whats left in a lot of fleets and the fleets are the only ones putting on events. There is not much incentive for a new person to go to an event that is totaly if not mostly race oriented when they have to compete against people with 20+ years of racing under their belt. And it does not matter if they are on Waves or the latest carbon 20, they are going to be way at the back. Not many people are willing to endure that kind of learning curve without some other reason the attend.

As for setting 1 design... The laser and 49er have a design that is liscenced to several builders and the Tornado was an open design that anyone could build. The problem here is that if you wnated a "race" boat they all gravited to a single source. This kills the motivation of the other builders and effectively locks you back into a SMOD and for a global class that is very difficult as remote support becomes a challenge.

I build boats and from a manufacturers standpoint the formula concept sucks but given the nature of the sport at this time it is reallly the only viable alternative. From a saiors point of view I think it is an excellent concept.

In EMSA, we tried to alleviate this perception with Catapalooza. I thought it was a success, hopefully we'll do it again this year!

The sentiment of events that are not designed only for hard core racers is the stance I am taking with the HCA during my tenure as Chair. My predeccesor is one of the top guys in our group, and a 'hard core' racer. His views differ from mine in that respect hense the reason I am doing whatever possible to align the HCA with the IWCA. I feel that racing is the reason we go, but the fact we're going to new and diffent places, eating different food, meeting interesting people and camping/hoteling with our friends and family is THE most important thing. The Wave, the 16, the getaway.....whatever. Widget. Hey, I ranked 41st (I think) in the 16 class, my 9 year is proud as hell of that. But my kids talk about the time we stopped at Niagra Falls (on the way to the 16 NAC in NY) as their favorite thing, and seeing the Memorial in OKC, and the time that we had the luau at the regatta where we all wore grass skirts and had poi.......
THIS is the reason we are trying to make the Wave more mainstream with the HCA- more family involvment, a boat that is more easily accessible (cost and ability to sail wise) and more overall attendance at events.
Just thought I'd toss all that out

Club races are very fun and relaxed affairs and are great for new sailors.

For example the SC45 tomorrow. There are two courses for the two groups you are talking about.

If you want something less racing focused... then build it... Catapolooza for example.

These things are out there... and to say the're not... that aint right.

The best event that we have been to since returning to sailing was the Hagar regatta that fleet 45 put on. It was just plain FUN. We had a nice distance race, great party (actually 2) and a fun sail on Sunday. There were folks on all kinds on cats, from H16 to I20 and even the prototype (F..con F16)!....all just having a great time.

We are semi-hard core but probably with the wrong boat for now.

I love to race in big fleets but this kind of regatta is what brings in the Sunday Sailors.

Catapalooza missed the mark because not much really happened I think. Just my opinion, and perhaps it will get better.

Bottom line....it's not the boat or class, it's the venue and camaraderie.

We're seeing steady growth at GYC, to the point that we need to put in some new anchors to accomodate the boats. I don't think any of the new arrivals are Hobies, and that's sad! They would be most welcome, as are all sailors.

We most definitely will. I don't have much time to start planning until after the Tybee. We got some terrific support on short notice last year - this year we hope to put a little more structure to it now that we have an idea about what we're doing.

Jake, this year we should invite some of the college sailing programs around to bring some members out.

When you say members, you mean hot college cheerleaders, right?

No. They can't pull high-loaded sheets.

Are you gay!? For the record they don't have to be cheerleaders they just have to dress like one.

Not last time I checked. The wife has been gone a lot recently though

I'll tell her you said hi.

Aren't Friday's great!

You get her bills too!

$175k in med school bills and COUNTING!

Matt wrote:


ChrisW wrote


Hmm... How do you harmonize the two mindsets in the same event? I don't think you should waste a lot of energy on this.

When CRAC was formed... a choice had to be made and when we looked around and could not find an individual willing to run the social/casual racing agenda... we thought we better be clear on the mission... thus catamaran RACING association of the chesapeake... We followed the lead of CRAM, CRAB, CRAW, OCRA. The R is for racing and all are still working on their core mission of creating racing events.

I don't know of many low key catamaran SAILING clubs.

On the Chesapeake Bay, The Tuesday Night Club WRCRA started out as a classic open class low key fleet of old boats... but now it's a fleet of A cats, F16's and Nacra 20's. A recreational sailor with an old boat attempting to race these guys has a tough time now. The Hobie Classes in Division 11 are run by racers who have no interest in running a beach party at the expense of their racing. They are not scheduling two short races and the rest of the day is scheduled for a beach party! The B and C fleet racing groups are very very small and the event they attend is their one event a year.

The weekend regatta circuit is fueled by racers who go one design racing and if they need a bit more... join a portsmouth race on the next weekend.. A recreational sailor dipping their toe in the water just doesn't fit the scene. Designing an event that is not focused on the hard core racer won't do it for the recreational sailor and the racer always likes a great party anyway.

My mast up storage MARINA has mostly recreational sailors and they have NO interest in organizing a beach party among themselves... If the breeze is good and several families happen to show up... we share the beer and fire in the barbeque grills. Organized club events are just not needed.

I think trying to manipulate things that put the two groups of people together at a single event is the wrong focus. Rather I think you need to build a club with mast up storage that can find a balance for racing and recreation. You need to get the old race boat out from the weeds in the back yard to the club. The guys with old boats who used to race would enjoy a club race now and again. The recreational sailors would like to see the more experienced sailors and go sailing with them when the wind is up and so on. Sandy Hook Bay seems to do a good job with 150 boats, of mostly recreational sailors and a racing program that runs the Statue, a Hobie Points Regatta and a club racing series for 20 or so racers.

I think it's great that Chris is working on harmonizing the Wave racers and the HCA schedule... But that is not going to shift the emphasis of the HCA away from serious OD racing. My hope springs eternal that next he will harmonize the Tiger and Wildcat OD fleets.... Followed up by including the rest of the F18's.... then.... the rest of the catamaran racing world...

At Sail Sand Point in Seattle, www.sailsandpoint.org, we have scheduled three Fast and Fun free sailing programs for this year. See http://www.ussailing.org/multihull/fast&fun.htm

Dates are:
April 25, at Sail Sand Point, Seattle, "North Shore Spring Celebration."
June 20, Downtown Kirkland, "Day on the Lake"
June 21, Mercer Island, Luther Burbank Park.

Volunteers will skipper our Waves for the Event. This year we have also added our new fleet of Hobie Cat Kayaks.

Caleb Tarleton

Undecided: When you say 'loaded sheets' you mean something else entirely right?

Mark S.: No harmonizing is really intended. I believe that if people that don't feel comfortable on a Tiger or even a 16, and want to come and do what the other racers are doing, the Wave might present an answer. That's all. Nothing more. The HCA is afterall, a racing organization. I just don't think that the racing is all that matters when you're spending you scarce discresionary $$ for you and the kids to have a fun weekend at ##### Beach for the weekend.

I'm not even gonna touch that one !! :P

Trust me - worth the investment, Dave.

In the UK the Dart(Sprint)15 class association started running Pro-Am prizes. First boat paired with last boat, second boat paired with second last boat etc. This idea proved successful and was then adopted by other classes giving an incentive to the novice to improve, and an incentive to the more experienced sailors to coach the paired-up novice and to maintain or improve on their own position.

Cheshirecatman

DUDE, where do you come up with this stuff??? I mean, seriously???

When was the last time you went to a D11 regatta? All the ones I've been to have had GREAT parties. Their B and C fleets are also some of the larger ones around.

No one is saying to change points regattas, but that we need to add other, lower-key, learn to sail (and race) events. These have been extremely popular and successful in various parts of the country (Doug's race clinic in NH in the old days, Hobie 101 in the NW more recently).

Cheshire, I agree totally and I proposed such an event locally here last year (team racing on a pro/am basis). We haven't gotten that off the ground yet.

Mike

I'm beginning to wonder if that insulin hasn't negatively affected your thought processes.

You just have your cape on too tight Jake :P

Cutting off oxygen to your brain.

Alot of Hobie Flet 20 Events are FUNSAIL only events. Once a month we get together and have a day of sailing, pot luck games on the beach, ect. We even do a few up to the damn around the island and finish by that bouy. every month from march till october. come on out.

I liked the non-structure at Catapalooza. I think that was the essence of the event.

Mike, You are such a reactionary.... Look at some facts... not just what you want to believe.

Where do I come up with this???... Div 11 2008 results! published on Hobie Div 11 web site.

B fleet turnouts 5 out of 8 events had 16b fleet races
four of the five events had 4 boats or less! No C fleet

I define that as VERY SMALL since it's less then a 5 boat minimum to make a class in most parts of the world.

Most of them do their one event a year...
data at same place...Three B fleeters did two or more regattas. ... IE one more event then their local home event.

So, most of the recreational racers are doing one local event a year. No C fleet means ... no recreational sailors coming out to give racing a try. Division 11 is one of the largest divisions in the HCA.



Do more? With respect to Division 11 taking on a program of teaching sailing, hobie 101. yada yada yada... In previous years It was talked about each and every meeting and there is unanimous agreement that it would be great... but.. It never flies and this year... the division did not even pretend they were committed to making it happen because no fleet would step up and say they would even try it.

All of which supports my point that you can't take a racing organization that puts on regatta events and have it serve both the racer and the recreational sailor. (A nice party is not going to keep the racers coming back unless they get what they want which is good racing)

Want more evidence that a good party is not enough... note that the Sailing Anarchy FLA regatta which should have a great party has cratered because the racers did not support it ahead of time for whatever reasons. Oh and the recreational racers or recreational sailors are not showing up either!

My point, .. Why attempt to change the focus or image of the racing organization like Div 11? It is better for them to do what they do well then try to invent 1/2 Assed solutions while trying to change their stripes.

The solution to Mysterio's problem is not a mystery... Club racing is the solution, it's great, and it belongs at CLUBS. Cat sailors and most importantly, Cat Racers, need to move the boat out of the back yard.. pick a Yacht club, join en mass and support the club activities.

It sounds like Gulfport is begging/ recruiting/ standing on their head to attract some Hobie sailors to join. I have heard many of the YC's in So Cal are asking the cat sailors to join. In the Chesapeake region, PRSA, Rehboth Bay SA, West River SA and Rock Hall YC are homes to former back yard sailors.

All of the ideas that would get more cat racers or cat sailors going are most easily done at a Yacht Club.

Oh and if if it means fewer weekend regattas so that you can support the club events .. that would be a good tradeoff imo.

Well, I stand by what I wrote.

Division 11 has some of the strongest racing around, and if they are concerned about their numbers, I have no doubt that they know how to fix it.

Regardless of what you've seen, I know that the learn-to-sail and learn-to-race events are HUGELY successful. Fun days are just as important.

I know from personal experience, not checking out results on a website. I for one would never have started racing if it weren't for Doug's race clinic in D12. I was dead-set against racing for many, many years (mostly, I was intimidated). That event hasn't happened in years, and we haven't been able to convert any "fun sailors" since. There's no way you're going to convince me that's just a coincidence.

Mike

Do you refuse to get my point?..

It's not that learn to race... learn to sail etc etc programs don't work...

It's just not what a racing organization wants to do! the people who make up the organization want to support the racers who want to go racing. They want to do mentoring programs for the new racers, junior racing programs. put on nationals or regionals. Hold a racing clinic. Have a rules clinic for the new rules etc etc.

The individuals who want to do learn to sail and learn to race programs are not going to be running the racing program.

Why call for one organization to do the other's mission.... you just loose focus!

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't understand what you're saying.

Maybe what you're saying is true for some of the organizations that you have direct/indirect experience with. BUT...

I am telling you that the racing clinics and learn-to-sail events that we've run in D12 were hosted by Hobie fleets, and all the volunteers were... wait for it... ACTIVE RACERS!!! And, not all of them were Hobie sailors, some raced other beach cats.

We knew it was absolutely imperative to keep the thing going. There is no growth in racing if you're only training the same people, you have to keep new blood coming in.

Mike

which is why I mentioned the college sailors. God knows that after sailing on V15's, 420s and JY's they'll be ready for some real sailing.

I think the basic want/need is to get enough boats to an event so everyone can get out of it what they want and to sustain the event financially. Whether or not its all about the trophy or just seeing how many tacks we didn't blow, everyone has there own agenda. The NAC is where all the Type A racers gather, and do their thing anyway.

Something that I see in the threads above is a distinct line in the sand. An either/or condition, black/white.

A deep personal look inside Division 4 (Pacific Northwest)last year showed a full spectrum of sailor types.
We've got Forumula, OD, Adventure, and Portsmith hardcore race only sailors. All the way over to, camp on the beach, I just want to reach all day and drink something in my free hand types.

Our challenge as leaders is to facilitate the organization to at least sustain membership, and to hopefully grow and strengthen. Respecting the differences, and finding a balance is the only way I see to make this work.

Look I don't get involved in these kinds of arguments.. but this statement is FALSE. FALSE FALSE FALSE. wait.. wait.. FALSE.
Not a single person in the region I sail in has ever displayed an attitude so bleak as what you describe. NEVER have I heard a participant, in ANY regatta, whether placing first or last, leave with a bitter attitude towards the event.

It IS, dammit, the party, the sportsmanship, the relationship and friendship built amongst sailors of ALL skill levels at these events that bring people back... and this interconnection, my friend, is NOT built on the water, but rather on dry ground. So please feel free to retract your quoted statement. I do not want to argue with anyone, but if you disagree then by all means have at it; just know that you are wrong!

"We followed the lead of CRAM, CRAB, CRAW, OCRA."

There's your mistake.
You should have been following the lead of CRAP
Catamaran Racing And Partying

Formed many moons ago by myself and Tom Korz in his kitchen.

Speaking of different foods.
Tator Tot Casserole made it to my Superbowl party.
It's better than you would think. I finished the last bowl for breakfast the next morning.

CRAP is the way to go. Partying was fantastic back in days of HUGE A, B and C fleets, arguing with the Prindle and NACRA sailors was most invigorating, but more important was whose crew had a better packed bikini. So there, Ha! (Big Sigh!) I loved all of it.
Closest we can get these days? Spring Fling: Keep it up Mr. Ernie!