Construction of Garage Mahal has begun!

http://www.teamseacats.com/2010/08/02/garage-mahal/

I'd put some sort of roof over the stairs.

you should cut a slot in the roof for mast up storage

looks great.

Look great, we're thinking of something simular but not as big.

Good luck, you doing this yourself?

I would really like to but there's no way I would have time to handle the construction and the height of the structure dictates scaffolding or lift equipment with multiple hands - I've hired a builder to put it in the dry (including finished exterior and concrete). I'll take over at that point with the wiring, plumbing, flooring, and HVAC...I will hopefully have enough left in the budget to contract the insulating and drywall...those are time consuming tasks (and tasks that I'm not a big fan of doing).

I was going to go 24x24 but a couple sailor/builder friends of mine gave the same piece of advice....they both said that "people complain about building it too small and they complain about it costing too much but nobody complains about building it too big."

The extra space will be nice Jake. My garage is 24' deep and the 20 hulls did NOT want to fit in there with the other garage type crap.

Also, when you get one of those RC winged tri's going, I'll purchase one from you since most of my sailing is going to be on a gator pond across the street.

You can't have too much power or outlets. Install compressor outlets into the walls. Consider built-in vacuum system.

Not worth the hassle in my opinion. Money better spent on a good moveable shop vac. Fein, Alto-Wap, Festool, etc.

Make sure your electric service is up to the anticipated load. It is surprisingly inexpensive to upgrade.

When I built my detached garage I added two buried conduits between the house and the new slab for the garage. One was for power, the other was for future (if needed) stuff. Well, the second one is now full with phone lines, cat5, coax, cctv wiring, low voltage wire for the garage door, etc. It came in real handy.

Never underestimate the power of dust collection. You can even run a hose to a table made of peg boards and use it for a down flow table for sanding. I hate having to drag my shop vac around. Check out Harbor Freight for a cheap but decent DC.

Great advice on here, thanks! I did call the power company and asked them about putting a dedicated service on the new structure - they said that the County probably wouldn't allow it since it will be attached to the existing structure...which is debatable since my shop is attached only by a shared roof over unlivable carport / breezeway...but they're running the numbers on my existing service to see if it will support the additional heatpumps, RV plug, welder, etc.

how are they bracing the gable ends? I'm not sure where your house is, but remember windstorm mitigation...it will save a lot on your eventual insurance premium...

Might consider one of those mist fire sprinkler systems too... they don't spray as much water, but do the same job (minimizing collateral damage). Garage fires are the worst.. don't ask me how I know

Fixed it for ya:
...but they're running the numbers on my existing service to see if it will support
the additional LED-beamers, plasma TV, walkin-fridge, subwoofers, xbox, grill, microwave, jacuzzi

Now that's a MAN CAVE!

Only thing missing to make it truly manish is an old skool waterbed (the big bag kind)....

Every garage should have a floor drain ......

"ARRRRRrrrrrrr ...." Tim (ToolTime) Taylor

Good point!

Unless you get super crazy with big loads, i.e. hot tub, BIG electric motor/s (>3h.p.), resistance loads (electric heat), a 60 amp. sub-panel will be large enough (guessing your load to be ~9kW max.) Add surge suppression to your low voltage cables (phone, video, etc.) where they enter the Garage (buried conduit from house?) Lightning seeks the smallest wires first.

That is too cool! I am so jealous.

Don't forget to put a NASCAR shop paint job on the floor.

I was going to run a 100Amp line over from my existing 200Amp service. In addition to the two 1Ton heat pumps and RV that may run it's AC from time to time, I'll have one or two Dye Sub heat presses running that each require a dedicated 20 amp circuit. That's not to mention a pretty hefty 80gallon 175psi compressor.

I strongly recommend you upgrade to 400 amp service for your home, then have your electrician run whatever sub-panels you need from that. With two HVACs and the toys you mentioned, you will max out your 200 amp service every time the AC kicks on. Don't ask me how I know.

It cost me ~$700 to do my 25'x25' garage. The only thing I would do different would be to sandblast instead of wasting time with the acid etch stuff. I've got a few bubbles and talking to some cement guys, sandblasting it gives it about a perfect texture for paint.

I also would just count on doing two coats. I did two coats, but there is chips inbetween the coats, then a clear top coat. Looks awesome though. Had my garage been 30X30 it would've cost the same as I had to throw out alot of paint.

when I moved into my house, I did the garage floor epoxy/paint myself. Was about $150 and came out really nicely. Make sure you use the cement etching solution first though!

If you do it yourself wear a respirator. Otherwise you might lose a lung.

Sheeewwwwweee...400Amps? Good lord. The power company is doing a calculation on it to see if the 200 I have is adequate but I hope I gave them all the right information. The heatpumps I'm using will be split ductless systems with 18seer efficiency and they're only drawing around 15amps (each) with both the indoor and outdoor units (230v).

I have a friend in the flooring business so the epoxy will come once the slab has matured. Good tip on the sandblasting - I have a large pot blaster so that should go pretty quickly....but good lord - the cleanup after sandblasting 864 sq feet of concrete would be a nightmare!

Nah. Vacuum most of it up and re-use it over and over. Hose and a squeegee for the really fine stuff.

Here's mine all done. Definetly get the "Proffessional" kits, and do a clear over the top.

May be close, but my bet is the 200 will do by the looks and size of the house in the photos and drawing. (JW you must live in WAY bigger abodes than me and Jake ) Again, you haven't described anything too extravagant, and Heat pumps are a good/highly efficient move.

Nice floor Karl

The 400 service delivers 320 continuous. The AC loads up a lot when it comes on, and you said there were two. I read welder and some other non-hobyist-type tools in the shop. Add the tech from the graphics business (computers, monitors, printers, plotters)...

Don't take my word for it - most power companies offer 100-, 200-, and 400-amp service. I'll bet my bobbysocks they recommend the 400 service to Jake. Our place in P'cola wasn't huge, but when we added the heat pump for the pool and the outlets in the garage, we had no choice but to upgrade from our 100-amp service (1960s house). The difference between the 200 service, which we would have maxed-out, and the 400 service was surprisingly small.

I miss that house.

For normal shop use I just have an underground 50 amp service running to the building from a circuit in my house. The highest load comes from my 220-Volt 80 gal 5hp air compressor. When I was planning the shop I was thinking about a 100 amp circuit and my electrician asked a simple question are you going to run everything at once. Good point! He assured me a 50 amp service would be enough. I do not have heavy equipment or hot ovens but I do have air tools, saws, welders, electronics, fridge, and fans. I have never had a problem or popped a breaker.
I have an electric breaker box in the shop that splits everything out in the shop. The air compressor has its own dedicated circuit. I have a row of lights hanging from the roof on its own circuit. I have a row of 4 gang electrical plug boxes 10 feet apart along each wall that has 2 pairs of plugs each pair on its own circuit. So I can have 2 always on plugs and 2 switched plugs in the same 4 plug box. Along one wall (the side of the compressor) I have a 1 inch galvanized pipe 46 feet long, set at a slope for drainage, with quick disconnect outlets for air and down pipes with stop **** to drain the pipe. I have a paint filter / dryer in line at one station for my painting connection. All lines are about 5 feet off the ground so they are not hidden by stuff in the shop and susceptible to water. Except for one shelf and the air compressor everything in the shop is on wheels.

Mike, does your shop have its own climate control?

Yeah, called the wind...

Got yourself some roof space on the new addition, any solar panels going there?

Saw some the other day that didn't even look like them.

great. more drama. Forklift delivering the foundation block discovered a septic system that I didn't know I had. Fortunately he was only startled when the lid collapsed and he was able to back his lift out of the hole. Somehow, he tried to blame Bonnie (my wife) for the situation when he contacted my builder! Funny. It wasn't anybody's fault and he only had a narrow access corridor due to the pile of stumps and roots on the edge of the access - he couldn't have driven anywhere else. Bonnie only asked him to not leave materials on the driveway so we can pull out but he claimed she was "coaching" him on where to put materials (like either of us have any idea where the guys needed the block, mortar and sand).

So, apparently my shop bathroom doesn't tie into the city sewer like the rest of the house - that was a little surprising. I'm fortunate on a couple of key points (besides nobody getting hurt) 1) the tank appears to be large enough to support the second bathroom upstairs (maybe even with a future shower should that be needed). 2) the tank is not under an area that will be paved with concrete but is in the middle of a small grassy area I was creating. 3) the drainfield did not cross the footers for the new building so I don't have to relocate it.

Are you going to Racine?

You're lucky. It could have been an old Hawaiian burial site which would mean years of delays, archaeologists doing a dig on your property, and being sued by every sovereignty group in the islands.

i think its a shyty turn of events, but glad it wont derail your plans.

glad no one was hurt. sounds like he deserved to fall in a little

no....but it's killing me.

My shop is open on the ends. I have mixed feelings about doors in a large shop in South Florida ventilation is important. It would cost an arm and a leg to cool a building like mine, then you would have to deal with the dust and chemicals so you don't blow yourself up.

Yeah, but if you went, not knowing what's going on with the construction would probably be worse.

I just saved myself a lot of headache by being here. Came home for lunch and I knew they were getting close to pouring the slab. I grabbed my camera, walked down the driveway and started watching the first of two concrete trucks back up (over my already busted septic tank...now the discharge pipe is certainly broken). I watched them hose down the chute to lubricate it for the concrete....saw the water dripping on the dirt....I thought dirt, water, concrete, moisture....moisture good for concrete cure. dirt.......moisture.......concrete.....CRAP! There's no vapor barrier!!!! As the guy has his hand on the dump valve from the truck I start screaming WAIT WAIT WAIT!!! Apparently, the "builder" didn't tell them they needed a vapor barrier. Had I gone to NA's in one year from now I would be wondering why my epoxy floor keeps blistering.

Fortunately for the builder, the concrete sub-contractor, and the concrete truck drivers (2 of them), they had the plastic in the truck and had it rolled out in about 4 minutes. Geesh. Every second I start to think I'm over-thinking everything I catch someone doing something stupid.

Wow no wire or expansion joint either. What psi concrete did you use ?

I was also surprised that there was no wire but I didn't think to put it in the contract and it was impossible to stop everything with the truck ready at the pour. We do have soil with a very high compaction - I'm hoping it's OK.

They did cut relief joints after finishing but I thought it too early. Lord, I dunno. If only you and Renee resided in SC!

Around here you have to have an inspection before the concrete is poured. Good luck with your builder if this is how it's starting,

The foundation did have to be inspected before anything was poured - and it was. This is a floating slab inside the concrete footer / block foundation - so it's not structural...it's a matter of it not cracking in an uncontrolled fashion over time.

Here in Louisiana (south), you've got to put some kind of reinforcement in the concrete otherwise you're screwed. Concrete WILL crack, the reinforcement will keep it together. Heck I put wire in my sidewalk! Good catch on the vapor barrier.

You would think that the building code would require it especially where you have freezing temps.

I poked around with some other folks I know that built garages in the area and found five I know. Three had floating slabs like this and none of them had wire reinforcement in the slab - none of them have experienced any issues with the slab and one of the structures is 12 years old. Y'all are making me nervous!

My short straw pole shows that the monolithic slabs seem to universally have structure in and around them.

When our house was built the slab for the garage and the basement were poured well after the framing and other stuff was done. When I had asked why; they had told me it will help with curing and keep the concrete from flaking.

I remember in the basement they had used wire that looked like chicken wire that was thicker and had bigger squares and in the garage used quarter inch "rebar" meshed out in 4" X 4" pattern.

But where I live, it gets cold and this may be the reason for it.

Keep us posted, I like the HGTV projects. Life hasn't been the same since "This Old House" is no longer available to us.

I wouldn't worry about it. Around here everything is built on sand not clay. Just not what some of us are used to seeing.

Or the DIY network.

We couldn't do anything on our sand without mesh to stop the eventual cracks from moving apart, I've got a mate that poured his verandah after the house slab about 6 years ago and there is now nearly an inch gap even though the verandah poles are bolted to the concrete.

Some of the new slab on grade concrete mixtures today add some kind fibre or wire fibre to increase contraction/control joints spacing and can exceed an old commercial standard of 20 ft. o.c. If the subgrade is compacted properly or moisture density is off is another cause of cracking, but appears inspection covered that base.

What about topsoil under a concrete drive? I was surprised when they pushed three large piles of topsoil back where the drive is going to go. The moved and moved-back dirt is probably 2 to almost 3' deep in places and I wasn't here to see how much, if any, attention they paid to compacting it. I had expected them to haul it off and bring in fill. I don't yet know what the builder intends to do with that but I've got some time to make my case about that.

They're supposed to start framing tomorrow and they expect to get the 2nd story floor system in....I'm not even two weeks into this yet.

With sand we keep a sprinkler on it for days on end, water forces the air bubbles to the surface compacting the soil. Would that work with your soil?

I would be concerned about top soil under my drive way. Especially more than 6" freshly put. I don't know what soil you have but even then more than 6" needs to go back in "lifts" not more than 6" at a time and compacted to 90 to 95% of original (of recommended density material) Check this out for basic information on the subject:

http://www.concrete-catalog.com/soil_compaction.html

A proctor test will determine the compaction/density of the soil you have. Might want to do that to see is what you have can actually be compacted sufficiently for concrete overlaying.

BTW, I did stay at a Holiday Inn once...

Good luck,

And she's up! (yes, the grass has been neglected for a bit)





http://www.teamseacats.com for more

When the Taj Mahal was finished the emperor chopped of the hands of the builders so that they could never build something as beautiful again.
You knew this right?

Concerning the built-in Vac.

I have used both. There is no comparison in the suction between a good built-in and a portable. I use a 15 amp 230 volt built-in with centrifugal filtration and an outside vent. It roughs out vacuum bags in seconds. Also if you do anything that produces any toxic or semi-toxic vapor, it's very good to exhaust outside sometimes.

However, never use a built-in when grinding something that produces white sparks, don't ask.

Pictures?

Looks good.

I saw on your site that you're looking for bucks to contract out the insulation. It's very well spent money. Insulation is a crappy job that will leave you with glass itch for a week. The insulation contractors can get the material for way less than you can because they buy in bulk. The price of material and installation was less than if I bought the material on our last house.

Stray it in. Much better than fiberglass.

I did all my basement renovation myself. However I did have a contractor hang and tape my drywall.

Suggestion to you if you have a contractor do your drywall. Count all of your outlets, windows, and heat vents in each room. My drywaller went over one outlet and one window. Funny until you are trying to figure out why you have 5 windows outside but only 4 inside?

I did the pink insulation myself. No big deal and saved some on what was bid. I got it on sale at a HD. It always pays to wait around and watch for sales. You would be surprised how much you can save by catching stuff on sale.

Good luck to you and we missed you at Nationals.

If orphan means spray it in, I agree 100%. Spray foam is the only way to go. Better R value, less worries with moisture, and it makes the structure stronger over all.

i was very shocked at how cheap the bid was to spray in insulation in my house (attic). $300 for standard $500 for the highest R value

Really? I had understood that the spray-in stuff was roughly twice that of fiberglass. I don't think it pays to do the insulation myself. My brother most recently had a guy quote supplying and installing insulation that was less expensive than what he could buy it for at a box store. The sprayed stuff has about twice the R value but I'm still a little concerned about the long term affect of a water problem should one ever come up.

It probably doesn't matter what you use. A house up the hill had an o-ring go bad in a water filtration system. Slow leak which eventually covered the wood plank floor, soaked through the sheetrock and was wicked up to the ceiling by the glass insulation. What a mess.

pretty certain. 1000sq' was around 3-500 .
http://www.danielinsulation.com/products/batt-blow
i think that was the product i was quoted for. i never ended up doing it. i found out it already had updated insulation

Water should not be an issue with a closed cell foam over any other of the choices. I know up here you do not have to run a vapor barrier with the closed cell.

It does cost more, but there is a savings to be had in the long term with lower heating/cooling costs. Granted our extremes are a bit different than yours. Temps here can sway 140*F with the seasons, so I'm not sure if it is as critical.

Personally if I were to build a house today, (I know a garage is a slightly different story...), I wouldn't consider anything else.

[edit]- The noise suppression from the spray in is also very impressive.

Most spray in foams are open cell - real closed cell is like 4x the price of open cell foam...or so I thought.

Yep, its significantly more. I don't know if its cost effective for you, but up here it has just about become the standard for both walls and ceilings.

The Mahal is still under construction. I haven't done crap to the inside yet other than push a boat in there and do a little work on my truck. I have been using the space to building fencing and fabricate a couple of (overly) complex gates. Also been pushing dirt around. It's getting there. I'm still blown away at the amount of space and can't wait to get it finished to get started on something fun! That's my extended cab Silverado at 19+ feet long in there with the garage door closed.

To Nigel and Dave who gave me the sage advice: "people complain about it being too small or being too expensive - but nobody complains about it being too big"....thank you!

Rule 1: build it bigger than you think you need.
Rule 2: no mater how big you will fill it with stuff and wish you had made it bigger.

How true I'm running out of room in The Man Shed 48' x 30' at first I thought man look at all this space ---- and now I have to move things around.

I have a friend with a "shed" that is 40' X 80" and it is so full with sh** that you can barely move around. Between two Cessna 185s, Piper Cub and a John Deere and 50 years of crap...

The garage is slowly coming around...I'm finally ready for electrical and plumbing rough-in inspections.

BUT! projets like this keep getting in the way. We're getting our F18 infusion ready for the fall regatta season and sprucing her up.

www.teamseacats.com

that's quite a crack, and lots of good detail for us amature repair folk. It bears repeating that the elbow grease is what makes it work....

AMEN!

Mike,

I sifted back through this thread and saw your comment. I have to say, that is one of the most sage pieces of advice I have heard. I have a 16' door in one gable end and a 12' door in the opposing gable end of my garage. I did that so, in the odd chance I needed to, I would have options to pull something large in and drive out the other side. What I've discovered, however, is that having the two doors is incredible for airflow and comfort when doing the things we do with fiberglass, grinding, welding, and other stuff. Fresh air comes easy when you have a door on either end. It really is quite nice.

If you epoxy the floors yourself, get the solvent based kits, plan on doing two coats, and put a clear coat over the top. I did my garage at my old house and the only thing I would've done differently is I should've sand blasted the floor to give it some texture for the paint to adhere to.

Top notch repair work! I'm in the process of similar things to get my TheMightyHobie18 race-ready for the NCC 100, some of these tips will come in handy. Looks like my top competition will be Krantz on the F20c, somehow I doubt my asym'd TheMightyHobie18 will keep up...

Your discovery of the void in the daggerboard area, along with some recently acquired information (lack of Nacra parts availability) is making me lean towards Hobie or AHPC for my F18 buying needs. Granted, this same thing could happen on any of the platforms if the builder isn't checking quality very well.

I don't know a whole lot about it - but apparently part of the motivation behind the last iteration of the Infusion was to change how they join the hulls and daggerboard trunk....making it more like Hobie and AHPC were assembling their boats and removing the need to do so much cosmetic refinishing after bonding the hull halves. I'm sure the way the daggerboard trunk is bonded is made better.

Still, though, this kind of thing is frustrating to have to do to a boat that's not yet 2 years old. Although I did more than just repair that trunk, we've probably got 35-40 hours in the work so far and the trunk was at least 2/3 of that.

That really sucks Jake, a lot of time that should have been spent sailing!

I heard through the grapevine that the 2010 boats had a lot of problems: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=121613

If I can find a used Capricorn I'll likely go that route as the AHPC build quality is better. I'm sure the MKII Infusions are up to par but I can't afford one of those...the C1 I've driven goes upwind like its on rails, it needed a new spinnaker to keep speed and angle downwind against the Infusion but was just generally a fast, well built machine.

well...frack me. There was sikaflex bonding the daggerboard trunk to the hull. I couldn't figure out why the bonding goo was a little gummy. I thought maybe they didn't get a full cure on it...nice. So, not only did they use the wrong goo to glue the trunk in, they didn't use enough of it. I wonder how long it will be before I have to do this all over again on the starboard hull.

My avatar now looks very appropriate.

Call Jill and Robbie, they are always happy to help peeople buy and sell ahpc gear . Jill at redgearracing dot com