Very bad business from SLO Sail and Canvas

Ok i can wait no longer.. here it is

DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH KARL from SLO CANVAS AND SAIL

after several emails with him, and surveying the people on another site who have used his services ... we came to an agreement of around $200 for a new Mystere 5.5 tramp (his quote, i never haggled at all). he said it would be about 100 off the regular price since he hadn't made one before and i would need to send him my tramp as a pattern (along with images and measurements)

I sent him my old tramp (actually my friends) in April with measurements.. he has NEVER done the work, he has been next to impossible to contact (his voice mail is never answered, usually to full to even leave a message, and he wont return emails.)

I have gotten through a few times to him and he has apologized, said he was busy and it would be done "this week"... never to hear back. the few times i have gotten through on the phone to his co-workers (or whomever they are) and i told them i need my tramp returned.. .NOTHING

i have now placed complaint with both the SLO BBB and the California States attorney/CA Dept of Justice. I HOPE THEY ARREST HIM and my next move is to file with the post office for federal mail fraud.

Then my next plan is to hire a lawyer and sue the jerk to recover my friends property. I have lawyer friends, but i want to hire the most expensive one i can find, on contingency so he has to pay 10000's for their fees.

I was polite and only pressed him to either do the work, or return my property. He was pleasant and accommodating on the phone, only to continue to blow me off.

I am very upset that i have to explain to my friend that i can't return his working trampoline and see what i can do to remedy that situation. Thank goodness i didnt send him my actual tramp as i would have been out of sailing since april.

PS His "Turn around time" was promised as - "We can build your trampoline within a few days of receiving the trampoline and boat measurements." That was april 6. he received the tramp april 8th....

Andrew,sorry to hear you have not resolved this yet.

Thanks Steve, i wish it was handled too. i really wish i had a good product at the price he promised, even withing a month would have been great.

i continue to call often, and leave a message when the voice mail isn't full. I can't believe how he can treat customers like this. I told him to we have a fleet of mysteres and this could lead to lots of business.

I have held back writing this review hoping to get the tramp returned, but he wont respond to my calls, or emails so i have no choice but do everything i can to get my friends tramp back that i borrowed.

The whole situation stinks. I have heard you you talking about this for months

This company has put Andrew in the position of not only going somewhere else to get a tramp, now he has to reimburse another guy for the tramp he sent out there. What a crappy thing to do to someone.

If someone knows these people I would ask you to give them a call and suggest they do the right thing.

Thanks Mike.

This is good we get this kind of info on sailing related businesses. Sounds about like the service I got from Clavert sails. I had to get my new sail fixed (done wrong in the first place) and they sent it to the wrong address and it was never found... then Dave actually wants me to help pay for a replacement sail. MONTHS later, and a letter from an attorney, I got another sail.

Andrew:

What you're saying is totally out of character for Karl. I have used him as well have recommended him to others and the feedback has been nothing but positive. He even made a special trip for a custom trampoline to deliver to me on a Friday so I could race on Saturday.

Speaking to his father over the weekend he tells me his business has been very busy doing contract work for North Sails, Murray's Marine, and a few others. Also he is moving to a larger facility to handle the work load.

I'll shoot him an email to let him know your dissatisfaction and that he needs to make this right ASAP.

Karl/SLO Sails and Canvas is by no means a Sailing Pro Shop of yesteryear operation.

Not to change the subject, but being you're in Dunedin, Florida and Sunrise is in Pinellas Park and already has the pattern why did you come all the way across the continent for a trampoline? They're what 15 minutes away? Personally and much as I'll support SLO Sails, Sunrise makes a better trampoline

Just my observation of this, Another friend with a H-18 got a tramp from them and everything went great. That was a good reason he went with them.

Being too busy is no reason to treat someone like this.

Sunrise charges about three times what slo quoted. That's a good reason.

Andrew can comment further. Remember it's been months.

There is no good excuse.

No there isn't an excuse for this and I am not making excuses for SLO, but I will reinforce this is out of character for Karl.

It's nice that they take good care of you.

All we want is they return the property that was sent to them. If you have their ear and can effect a proper response, great.

And so did Sunrise when I had worked with them.

I called and spoke to Karl a few minutes ago and told him of this thread.

What happens form this point is anyone's guess.

Your help is appreciated.

Just my opinion.

Sunrise builds the best tramp. After ten years of never being covered and used more than anyone I know in the Fla. sun, it's still in good shape.

Thank you very much,
hopefully he will return the tramp and we can move on

Yes they do, and well worth the extra money the charge.

Amen

I heard good things and contacted him. Emails and phone. all seemed great ... he said $212 with shipping! 1/3rd the cost of sunrise (who i have worked with and love their product). At that time i had a month or 2 life left in my tramp on my boat.. not much more. Last month i developed a 16" tear in my tramp ... only made the situation with Karl that much more frustrating.

after several week with no response (or room on his voice mail) , when i finally got him on the phone he said he was swamped, he would do my tramp "this week".... i said thats great, i am glad you have business, and i understand.. i dont care if it weeks late... even a month just keep me informed .. don't disappear on me (i know rick said the spring is crazy for these guys) so i was shocked when he promised a few days... (as his yahoo store still does)

that happened 2x... i finally got through and he swore he would do it that week...he said "i will send you pics on wed... thursday i will get your credit card info and ship friday."

I handle a fair amount of websales and customer service and i just can't imagine this type of customer care.


Again, all i am needing is for is my property returned.. .i gave up on a product months ago

Hell, I coulda told ya that!

No Monday morning quarterbacking Karl.

Ha, it took me a few minutes,

or any Karl

Thanks for the heads up, when the time comes to replace mine, I'm going with Sunrise.

If I can suggest, you're going to need to send him a final demand via registered/certified mail for your property, or compensation for it before you can go after him.

Or, just send this guy the link to this thread. That would get my attention.

Not to kick you while your down Andrew, but this goes to show you that the sweet taste of a good deal will turn sour when the expectations of quality and service are not there.

Thanks for the info about a final demand. i really hadn't planned on suing anyone, ever...

I had really thought i did my homework on this guy - http://www.thebeachcats.com/module-forum-viewtopic-topic-11657-start-0.html#pid22348

Sorry to hear about your tramp. I'm sure the influence from this thread will get it returned. I had a great experience with SLO a few years ago. I ordered some boat covers and they arrived within a couple days at half the price of anyone else. Sounds like their demand is getting too much for them to handle. I hope it turns around as they really were a great company to work with.

Thanks.
Despite my call and message to their voice mail (for the xth time) yesterday... and Ventucky Red's call to Karl.. i still haven't heard from them.

Notarized letter time

sent Certified Mail with Signature Confirmation.

A,
Talked to SLO on unrelated business today, and you'll get your tramp back shortly.

Way to go Jeremy, sometimes it takes a knock on the back door! Let's hope his words and actions are true.

Thanks Jeremy. that would be fantastic news if it proves true. Thanks for your help.

Thanks to all that had input.

I ordered a sail from SLO that didn't come as promised and like you they have stopped answering my calls and have not replied to my emails. Keep us informed on you case. I would not use SLO sails and canvas again. Obviously.

I am a dealer for SLO, Sunrise, Super, and the Hobie Amish folks, and all have been really reliable suppliers for Catsailor's OnLineMarineStore.com
SLO and the Amish have been the fastest turn around times.
Never have had a customer complaint about SLO.
So, this is totally out of character for them.
Really sorry about your problem, Andrew.

Hmm. Perhaps had you ordered through our store you would have gotten good service. Just a thought.
Rick

Thanks Rick,
I had heard only GREAT things about SLO. thats why i went with him (that and the $200) price tag. And you are probably correct that had i ordered through you, he would probably fullfilled that order as you send him business more often, although he has killed any chance of business from my fleet of mysteres

a few others are coming out of the wood-work after hearing about my issies with the same experience:





Despite 3 people fron this site/thread contacting him (and my continued attempts) no one from SLO has contacted me in any way to handle this situation

I have also had speedy service from Karl at SLO Sail as well of course, great service from Sunrise. No customer complaints so far.

Sorry you're having these problems.

Rick Bliss
New England Catamarans

Still nothing

Letter of final demand being drafted

Yea, sorry you’re having such trouble with Karl. He seems to fall off the face of the planet the moment things don’t go his way. I think he puts his head in the sand as soon as he gets nervous about anything. I ended up using a pretty torn up set of sails for the Leukemia cup last January because after numerous attempts at giving him business, he wouldn’t return emails, phone calls. I talked to Karl just before Thanksgiving and he said he could get me a new main and jib just after the first of the year. I called him every couple of days after Thanksgiving to give him some measurements and solid up the deal, Hell, I offered to send him a check and luckily he didn’t get back to me, or I would have been in the same predicament as you!
Also, A friends Main (built by Karl), needed to be re stitched after about 9 months of use. Also, the batten pocket protector screws were too long and were poking through the nut on the other side, began wearing holes in the main when it was rolled up. Not much attention to detail.
To anyone out there looking at SLO for tramps or sails, be very careful.
To his credit, the first time I did business with him, he built me a nice main for a N5.7.
Since then he's failed on all levels.

Just to update, despite a few people from here contacting SLO... still nothing.

CA State attorney has sent me a letter, they are looking into if any laws were broken and if so, what course of action should be taken.

Want to send out a big thank you to Karl and Slo Sail and Canvas. They truly care about their customers and will do anything to make things right. I ordered a trampoline from them for my Prindle 19 and upon receiving it, there was a slight stitching issue I had. Was not a big deal, just something that bugged me. I called Karl and he didn't hesitate! He advised he wanted me to be 100% satisfied and that he would ship another tramp that same day, and have it "overnighted." They also covered the return shipping. Exellent customer service! This is the way every company should operate! The tramp was very well made and looks great! Thanks Karl!!!

I don't have a dog in this fight, but the previous post sounds a lot like ad copy from a professional marketer. And, why did they respond to a two year old post? Damage control??? It will be interesting to see if this new Stranger (as of now only 2 postings),continues to post in the future. Did the original problem ever get resolved?

I also have had great service with slosails. I have used them 4 or 5 times. Never a problem. I am not a pro marketer just a retired guy who rebuilds some old beach cats to help with my retirement.

I am a dealer for SLO and have nothing but good service from them. I ama dealer for about 6 tramp mfgs and SLO is one of the fastest at fulfilling orders
Rick

I don't have any experience with Slo but I do know who Morris is and know that he truely does exhist. Why posting to such an old post is beyond me though.

RE: Jeff Peterson

Jeff, I'm just another cat sailor, been sailing Prindles for 20 years. I am not affiliated with Slo Sail and Canvas in any way. I discovered them from two other catamaran sailors at the Texas City Dike that have Slo tramps and I liked what I saw. So, I ordered one for my P-19 and am very happy with it. I can send you a copy of the invoice, a photo of my boat, etc. I only wanted to give credit where credit is due. Karl treated me well, as far as I'm concerned he runs his business as it should be. I know there are times when things go wrong and people are unhappy with a company but from most of the posts I've seen Slo Sails and Canvas is a quality and professionally run operation!

As for posting on an old thread? I had an excellent experience dealing with Slo Sails and that's what forums are all about, INFORMATION....I just ordered the tramp this past week. I thought other sailors would like to know peoples various experiences with companies, mine happened to be positive.

Maybe I'll regret posting this but I heard through the grapevine that if the complaining party wasn't such a d!ck to SLO in the first place and slamming him on every forum possible, things would have been much different.

Good old grapevine. Right every time. Isn't nice to know that slo talks to the grapevine but ignores the customer.

Does it say on their site place your order and send us your pattern and don't try and contact us again. If you do we will ignore you and keep your pattern ( in this case the pattern was a friends tramp ) and then laugh it off to the grapevine saying the guy is a dick because he sent a email or made a phone call. Really??

slo uses the Internet to gain business when they don't fulfill their end the Internet can and should be used to inform others.

I am not sure that the person who started these posts knows how much positive advertising he has created for slosails. It appears to be about 98% positive 2% negative. I would take those numbers any day.

the probably would want to have started a thread with a different title, though.

No. the (borrowed) tramp that was sent to Karl as a template was never returned (despite him telling J from Surf City he would either complete the project or return the template) and my calls, emails, and voice mails were never returned

If you come into a contract with me , and I send you my friends trampoline to use as a template, then you fall off the face of the earth for 3 or 4 months, and don't return my friends tramp... i will never stop complaining and telling people my experience with your company and total lack of professionalism.

If it wasn't my friends tramp... i probably wouldn't care as much.

send this back up your "grapevine"... Be a adult and return a clients email or phone call, or complete the contract or return the customers materials and you wont have "dicks" posting how terrible your customer service was in this case on all the forums.

Since we're on the subject of bad service, here's one; In 2004, I ordered a main and jib (prepaid) for my H21SE from Calvert Sails. I think I placed the order in March and paid for it with the promis of around 4 weeks or less delivery. By the end of May I was a bit worried after no returned calls from Joe or Dave. When my sails came in, there was a spinnaker sent with them. I thought that was a bit strange. I just tossed it aside since I was just glad I got my sails finally. I had another main by Calvert that came with the boat and was changing over the battens and the top 3 were way too long. They made this one with the square top much smaller for some reason. Then when I got around to raising it, it would pull out of the track when it hit the comptip making it nearly impossible to raise it without laying the boat on it's side (which is a PIA to do with wings). This time it was the first of June and I was going to do the GT300 on this boat. I got a call from Dave Calvert wondering if I recieved a spinnaker. I said yes and he asked me to drop it off at UPS because they had a pissed off customer wanting his spinnaker. I asked him for the guy's address and I'd send it to him myself, which I did. I also told him about the main pulling out of the track. His response was that he was trying more luff curve in the sail to make it perform better. I asked about why the square top was so much smaller, his answer was "we think it will go to weather better". I told him to do R &D on his own stuff, not what I;m paying full price for. I knew there wasn't enough time before the GT300 to send it back and told him that. He said try it, if I don't like, send it back and he'd change it. After the GT, I sent it back ....in July. September comes around and still no sail. Every time I called, Dave was out somewhere. October I get a call after I had an attorney send a letter demanding a refund. They said they sent it weeks ago. They sent it to the wrong address (sound familiar?) It gets better....Dave had the nerve to ask me to pay for a new sail since I had already used the first one once. His argument was that it had "depreciated" and wasn't a new sail when I sent it back. I finally got a new sail in November. I'm sure many people have had great experiences with Calvert but I didn't.
The funny thing was when we went to do the GT, I saw that spinn flying on a N6.0 in that race. It was unmistakable, black, purple and blue. I told my crew, look that's the chute that sat in my house in California that we were wondering about.

Have a friend that is a divorce attorney and her favorite saying is; “you have his story, you have her story, and somewhere in the middle lays the truth.”

It appears the MN3 is the only one with the problem. Sure would like to see SLO Sails response to MN3’s allegations.

I heard only good things too, but 4 months after i sent karl the tramp (template) and posted his "disappearing" a few others had somewhat similar experiences





I would LOVE to hear SLO (Karl's) response, and his excuses for stopping to communicate with a customer, failure to complete the work, and worst of all failure to return a customers property.

OR he could still return the template (or attempt to find another solution) and I this topic would be dead.

Remember J from Surf City contacted him ( 08/06/10 12:27 PM ) and spoke to Karl about it, ..."

This is comical. Really?? ....well we only screw two people per 100. Yup I'm good with that. Brilliant!

Do you have a business? Let me know cause I would NEVER call you.

So what you are saying Mike is that 100% of the people you deal with are satisfied 100% of the time.

Yes, I believe that to be 100% true.

There's another old saying, If your happy with your experience tell everyone, If your not tell me.

If I do something you don't like and you don't tell me then it's on you. Fair enough?