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Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ?

Posted By: Bille

Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/05/13 11:28 AM

Explain exactly WHY I "Can't" go sailing once again ?

Because Lakes Mead and Mohave are CLOSED ; they both
belong to the US-Government, and there Closed as well !!!

Bille
Posted By: tback

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/05/13 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Bille
Explain exactly WHY I "Can't" go sailing once again ?

Because Lakes Mead and Mohave are CLOSED ; they both
belong to the US-Government US -- THE UNITED STATES TAX PAYER, and there Closed as well !!!

Bille


FIFY
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/05/13 12:48 PM

Quote
“It’s a cheap way to deal with the situation,” an angry Park Service ranger in Washington says of the harassment. “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/05/13 01:29 PM

What is sad about the whole proposition is that many of these parks are self reliant, that is they could operate on the fees they bring in from entry, camping permits and the concession leases..

There was a talk about Yosemite this week on the local NPR radio station and how much the privately owned company that leases and runs the concessions, hotels, etc... could easily fund the federal potion of the park's operating budget (rangers, maintenance etc...) and still operate in the black..



Posted By: DennisMe

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/05/13 01:30 PM

Maybe its time to re-read "On the duty of Civil disobedience"... (I'm not a US citizen, but I sympathize).
It appears like there's a difference between 'belonging to the people' and belonging to the government. Its painfully obvious with the shutdown affecting peoples 'inalienable' rights which were once supposed to be held self evident...
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/05/13 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by DennisMe
Maybe its time to re-read "On the duty of Civil disobedience"... (I'm not a US citizen, but I sympathize).
It appears like there's a difference between 'belonging to the people' and belonging to the government. Its painfully obvious with the shutdown affecting peoples 'inalienable' rights which were once supposed to be held self evident...


Well thats already been happening.

They tried to lock an outdoor 24/7 public WW2 memorial in D.C. when a bunch of "Freedom Flight" WW2 vets came to visit it. They put up these flimsy barricades (which are now wired together apparently) but the Vets just pushed them aside and walked right in. Nobody is going to take the political bullet of arresting a bunch of the greatest generation for tresspassing on what is really their memorial.

Basically the executive branch of the government is ordering closed a bunch of public-facing federal entities in order to make our government "shutdown" look a lot worse than it really is. They tried to close down the Mount Vernon Park but then the PRIVATE owners of that land (co-owned by a foundation and the feds) told them to get stuffed and took the barricades down to the parking lot. They also tried to shut down a private lodge off of the skyline drive in Virginia.

Basically, the whole government is stupid.
Posted By: catman

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/05/13 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Originally Posted by DennisMe
Maybe its time to re-read "On the duty of Civil disobedience"... (I'm not a US citizen, but I sympathize).
It appears like there's a difference between 'belonging to the people' and belonging to the government. Its painfully obvious with the shutdown affecting peoples 'inalienable' rights which were once supposed to be held self evident...


Well thats already been happening.

They tried to lock an outdoor 24/7 public WW2 memorial in D.C. when a bunch of "Freedom Flight" WW2 vets came to visit it. They put up these flimsy barricades (which are now wired together apparently) but the Vets just pushed them aside and walked right in. Nobody is going to take the political bullet of arresting a bunch of the greatest generation for tresspassing on what is really their memorial.

Basically the executive branch of the government is ordering closed a bunch of public-facing federal entities in order to make our government "shutdown" look a lot worse than it really is. They tried to close down the Mount Vernon Park but then the PRIVATE owners of that land (co-owned by a foundation and the feds) told them to get stuffed and took the barricades down to the parking lot. They also tried to shut down a private lodge off of the skyline drive in Virginia.

Basically, the whole government is stupid.


No, We are Stupid. It represents us.....right?
Posted By: DennisMe

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/05/13 02:44 PM

The issue with the WWII veterans was on the radio in the Netherlands. These guys bloody well liberated our little postage stamp country, its a crying shame that they are not getting the respect they deserve. They're welcome to stay at my place in the Netherlands any day. Soon the last of their generation will have passed on and we will have missed the unique opportunity of paying them the tribute they deserve. If it wasn't for them, the western hemisphere would have a Fuhrer today...
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/05/13 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by catman

No, We are Stupid. It represents us.....right?


I don't think you can claim that it represents us anymore. In any case, I don't see the shutdown as a bad thing. For 95% of the population, nobody is going to notice a damn thing. Maybe it will get people to realize just how bloated and inefficent the whole boondoggle is.

Here's something ripe. Want to go fishing during the shutdown? Sorry - the feds have close the Florida Bay. Yes. All of it.



Give me a ****ing break - the gal of the feds to think that they're so ****ing important to society that they have to close the Bay down to commercial traffic lest all hell break loose.... in reality thats not it... this is just more of the same "make it artificially hurt so that people put pressure on the opposition to cave on their constituents."

Quote
Charter guides received a message from the National Park Service this week informing them that they are not permitted to take clients fishing in Florida Bay until the feds get back to work. That means that more than 1,100 square miles of prime fishing is off limits between the southern tip of the mainland to the Keys until further notice.

The closing affects not only fishing guides, but anyone with a license to conduct business in the park, including tour operators and paddling guides — anyone with a Commercial Use Authorization permit, said Dan Kimball, superintendent of Everglades and Dry Tortugas national parks.

Biscayne National Park is also off limits. Enforcement rangers will be on duty, Kimball said.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/05/13 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by DennisMe
The issue with the WWII veterans was on the radio in the Netherlands. These guys bloody well liberated our little postage stamp country, its a crying shame that they are not getting the respect they deserve. They're welcome to stay at my place in the Netherlands any day. Soon the last of their generation will have passed on and we will have missed the unique opportunity of paying them the tribute they deserve. If it wasn't for them, the western hemisphere would have a Fuhrer today...


DennisMe,

Over here there are no more respected and honored than those who served, especially in WW2. My grandfather landed in Anzio, my other grandfather was a fighter pilot in the Pacific. My grandfather who was a grunt on the ground has some amazing stories. I've wanted to record his personal history for a long time now ... I think I might try and do it while I'm home for Waterfowl Festival this year.

Anyways - the fact that the memorial is "closed" in the first place is a sham. Its an open-air, free standing edifice that has no staff. The effort of closing it cost the government more money than if they just left it open. Its being used as a political football in the way that the stories above are. Its shameful and should be called out as such. After the vets "stormed the barricades" the government came back and wired shut the flimsy things so that they couldn't be pushed aside. I think they're very mistaken if they think that its going to keep those men out of their memorial.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/05/13 03:09 PM

Bring it to PA.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/05/13 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Originally Posted by catman

No, We are Stupid. It represents us.....right?


I don't think you can claim that it represents us anymore. In any case, I don't see the shutdown as a bad thing. For 95% of the population, nobody is going to notice a damn thing. Maybe it will get people to realize just how bloated and inefficent the whole boondoggle is.

Here's something ripe. Want to go fishing during the shutdown? Sorry - the feds have close the Florida Bay. Yes. All of it.



Give me a ****ing break - the gal of the feds to think that they're so ****ing important to society that they have to close the Bay down to commercial traffic lest all hell break loose.... in reality thats not it... this is just more of the same "make it artificially hurt so that people put pressure on the opposition to cave on their constituents."

Quote
Charter guides received a message from the National Park Service this week informing them that they are not permitted to take clients fishing in Florida Bay until the feds get back to work. That means that more than 1,100 square miles of prime fishing is off limits between the southern tip of the mainland to the Keys until further notice.

The closing affects not only fishing guides, but anyone with a license to conduct business in the park, including tour operators and paddling guides — anyone with a Commercial Use Authorization permit, said Dan Kimball, superintendent of Everglades and Dry Tortugas national parks.

Biscayne National Park is also off limits. Enforcement rangers will be on duty, Kimball said.


+1
They also closed the Oregon Inlet fishing center as well as all the beaches in the "park", here on the Outer Banks. the fishing center is leased by the captains, because of that it would seem ripe for a broken lease lawsuit. Of course that would be fought with our money, but maybe it would prevent some power hungry, control freak, douchebag from pulling this crap again. And don't kid yourself that the orders for all this stuff aren't coming from the Whitehouse, they are.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/05/13 03:55 PM

How do you know the orders come from the White house?
Posted By: Pirate

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/05/13 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Quote
Biscayne National Park is also off limits. Enforcement rangers will be on duty, Kimball said.


stupid part about it all .......

the added costs of the fencing/added security/enforcement officers out-weighs the costs of normal running and incomes


crazy

I would suggest its more about the govt putting on a show than it is about the reality of the situation


GOVERNMENT:
the only true person that ever entered a place of politics with honest intentions was Guy Fawkes
wink
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/05/13 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by Pirate
Originally Posted by Undecided
Quote
Biscayne National Park is also off limits. Enforcement rangers will be on duty, Kimball said.


stupid part about it all .......

the added costs of the fencing/added security/enforcement officers out-weighs the costs of normal running and incomes


crazy

I would suggest its more about the govt putting on a show than it is about the reality of the situation


GOVERNMENT:
the only true person that ever entered a place of politics with honest intentions was Guy Fawkes
wink


Bingo...on all accounts.
Posted By: Dlennard

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 12:14 PM

Have any of you guys gotten your new health insurance bill. Mine went up 5,500 per year so now I have to pay 19,000 per year including deductible before the insurance company pays anything. I thought this new health care bill was supposed to help. After 52 years of having health insurance I am going to have to cancel my policy. It will be cheeper to just pay the fine and if I have a major problem buy insurance then. Thanks Obama voters.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 02:15 PM

Your state obviously cares more about insurance companies than it does it's citizens.

But, duh, you could try going into the market place.

And you're welcome.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by pgp
Your state obviously cares more about insurance companies than it does it's citizens.

But, duh, you could try going into the market place.

And you're welcome.


Pete,
You really should get your head out of yourass. All of you and your ilks stupidass, contentious comments don't address the fact that the general public is getting screwed by this and everyone was warned.The principles of it were wrong from the get go, unless your a socialist.Someone's gotta pay for all the freebies. When insurance companies are national conglomerates, the state makes no difference.David's state happened to opt out and he's still getting screwed, probably worse with king Hussein's vindictive attitude. Pete, Maybe you should attempt to suck start a 12 Ga. and see how well Obamacare really works.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 03:08 PM

Health care costs were going up 8 to 10 0% a year for many years.... Before they blew up the economy, how to regulate Heath Care was the major issue in the election for both Ds and Rs.

Hospitals and the system pay for the uninsured ... One of the ACA's solutions was to expand Medicaid... If your state refuses to take the money... you get hit by a double wammy. Same number of uninsured that the system will have to pay for... AND they cut off the Fed medicaid uninsured payment that paid for it in the past. So... your insurance company raises the rates to pay for it. Tell your gov to take the medicare expansion... your rates will stabilize.

Prior to the ACA.... you pay the insurance company or go without. Now, you have four choices. Pay the company, or you can buy a high deductible policy on the federal insurance exchange for much less money ... or See if the comparable federal exchange group rate is better then your small group rate plan that you have now (same insurance company... different group plan) ... Or pay the fine.

The most dangerous thing you said was wait and see if i get sick... then buy something.. Huge mistake... just like your current insurance... they still have an open season... You have to enroll or change during open season. You can't wait till you need it... You will pay the fine... get treated and still owe the bills... Sure, the next open season will come up in a year and then let you purchase a plan, irrespective of your pre existing condition... but the past bills don't go away.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 03:32 PM

Todd, you're a xenophobic redneck without an inkling of understanding of the modern world so I'll put you back on ignore since you're a waste of cyberspace.

My state requires insurance companies to register every policy they sell I would imagine all states have a similar procedure. Until these policies are approved they cannot be sold. Hence, the state itself is responsible. If you don't like those policies your first call should be to your state legislator.

Shop your insurance every year, every quarter would be better. If your insurance company threatens you in any way call your legislator!

The biggest problem we have with insurance is collusion, demand a real market and all this crap will go away.

Better yet, would be to abandon the nonsensical tax and banking system we have for a system based on Modern Monetary Theory and Pigovian taxes. The system we have in place is one of political favoritism without the vaguest thought to sound economic principle.
Posted By: Dlennard

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by pgp
Your state obviously cares more about insurance companies than it does it's citizens.

But, duh, you could try going into the market place.

And you're welcome.


Pete, I have tried to get pricing on the Market Place for days and around 4 hours of time and phone calls with no luck. If I sign up for the government health care I also can't go back to private. After dealing with the MP website and the phone calls and no help dealing with the government is going to be just a bad experience.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 03:39 PM

Who told you you can't go back to the private sector? I'm very skeptical about that.

I'm sure there are lots of problems with this new system, I'm also confident it will get sorted.

I'm sorry you're having such a rough time and hope you find a solution soon.
Posted By: Dlennard

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Health care costs were going up 8 to 10 0% a year for many years.... Before they blew up the economy, how to regulate Heath Care was the major issue in the election for both Ds and Rs.

Hospitals and the system pay for the uninsured ... One of the ACA's solutions was to expand Medicaid... If your state refuses to take the money... you get hit by a double wammy. Same number of uninsured that the system will have to pay for... AND they cut off the Fed medicaid uninsured payment that paid for it in the past. So... your insurance company raises the rates to pay for it. Tell your gov to take the medicare expansion... your rates will stabilize.

Prior to the ACA.... you pay the insurance company or go without. Now, you have four choices. Pay the company, or you can buy a high deductible policy on the federal insurance exchange for much less money ... or See if the comparable federal exchange group rate is better then your small group rate plan that you have now (same insurance company... different group plan) ... Or pay the fine.

The most dangerous thing you said was wait and see if i get sick... then buy something.. Huge mistake... just like your current insurance... they still have an open season... You have to enroll or change during open season. You can't wait till you need it... You will pay the fine... get treated and still owe the bills... Sure, the next open season will come up in a year and then let you purchase a plan, irrespective of your pre existing condition... but the past bills don't go away.


Thanks Mark
I already had a high deductible plan which worked fine for me as I just paid for the times I needed medical care, but the new law changed my plan to a lower deductible and doubled my rates. The higher deductible is no longer an option. If I go on the government health care I can never go back to private. The government can just up the rates and I have no choice and if I don't get good care no choice again. Several of my friends are getting the same 100% increase. I have already contacted my government officials and yes cost are going up but 100% for one year to the next is a little tough.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 03:49 PM

The real problem here is your state legislature and insurance lobby.

Get involved politically, if nothing else call your local legislator and tell him this is all his fault and you intend to put someone else in his seat.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 04:00 PM

pete, I'm glad you know so much about me. Nice bigotted post, it actually shows your ignorance on this. I beg you to discuss this with me in person. Conflict resolution works so much better that way. Just make sure you start with as much vitriol. Dumbass.
You are still trying to pass the blame on to everything except the problem,the ACA.

p.s. Buy a dictionary.
p.s.s. Why do you keep taking me OFF ignore? Can't learn your lesson I guess.
Posted By: Bille

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Originally Posted by catman

No, We are Stupid. It represents us.....right?


I don't think you can claim that it represents us anymore. In any case, I don't see the shutdown as a bad thing. For 95% of the population, nobody is going to notice a damn thing. Maybe it will get people to realize just how bloated and inefficent the whole boondoggle is.

...


YES , But I'm the one who Can't go sailing OR kite-boarding
because of this shut-down ; not much for lakes to choose
from if Ya live in Vegas !

As far as the Health-care system goes ; thought this was
a sailing forum ? I could talk about Kite boarding all
day, but few of you would relate, so i Don't.

GO start your OWN Health-care Thread ...

Bille
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 04:02 PM

What happens if you go sailing anyway?
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 04:03 PM

You should start a kite boarding forum, or at least a thread.

I would've bought a kite long ago but I don't have the balls.
Posted By: Dlennard

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 04:31 PM

Hey Pete only 26 attempts (calls) to get verified and I finally got to be put on hold. (5min so far). The system just cancels your call and tells you to call back later. Last week I did finally get through after 10 calls and a 17min wait on hold and they could not help me because the system did not save any of my application so I have to do it all over again.
Posted By: Carl

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Dlennard
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Health care costs were going up 8 to 10 0% a year for many years.... Before they blew up the economy, how to regulate Heath Care was the major issue in the election for both Ds and Rs.

Hospitals and the system pay for the uninsured ... One of the ACA's solutions was to expand Medicaid... If your state refuses to take the money... you get hit by a double wammy. Same number of uninsured that the system will have to pay for... AND they cut off the Fed medicaid uninsured payment that paid for it in the past. So... your insurance company raises the rates to pay for it. Tell your gov to take the medicare expansion... your rates will stabilize.

Prior to the ACA.... you pay the insurance company or go without. Now, you have four choices. Pay the company, or you can buy a high deductible policy on the federal insurance exchange for much less money ... or See if the comparable federal exchange group rate is better then your small group rate plan that you have now (same insurance company... different group plan) ... Or pay the fine.

The most dangerous thing you said was wait and see if i get sick... then buy something.. Huge mistake... just like your current insurance... they still have an open season... You have to enroll or change during open season. You can't wait till you need it... You will pay the fine... get treated and still owe the bills... Sure, the next open season will come up in a year and then let you purchase a plan, irrespective of your pre existing condition... but the past bills don't go away.


Thanks Mark
I already had a high deductible plan which worked fine for me as I just paid for the times I needed medical care, but the new law changed my plan to a lower deductible and doubled my rates. The higher deductible is no longer an option. If I go on the government health care I can never go back to private. The government can just up the rates and I have no choice and if I don't get good care no choice again. Several of my friends are getting the same 100% increase. I have already contacted my government officials and yes cost are going up but 100% for one year to the next is a little tough.


Hi David and all -

Good topic --Central to the Govt. shutdown is the desire to have a discussion about Obamacare as it is called in general media . As I understand it the current president refuses to discuss debate or negociate the issue with the congress.

Funny -but my basic understanding of our system of government with its checks and balances and debate of ideas was intended to promote discussion of issues and debate of those issues .

An interesting juxtapose to the refusal to discuss or negociate the health care issue by Obama is foriegn policy in which the president will negociate with ---ohh --one example -- a foriegn dictator such as Assad in Syria who according to the UN has used chemical weapons to kill his own civilian population inc womon and children --gassed to death .

Yet he is unable to negociate or refuses to discuss the issue with the other political party in the US and all those they represent --about half the population . I thought a president was supposed to represent ALL of us --not one party .

That said --the simple minded arguement that insurance cos drive the cost of health insurance is --well --just that .
There are so many factors driving costs {too many to list here} It seems very few cost reduction factors were actually addressed in O CARE --perhaps it was due to the complete lack of debate -negociation --concent of the minority party --and the ability or intent to insure ALL people are represented fairly and do indeed have a voice and perspectives that need to be heard .

Daves is an excellent example of what is already going terribley wrong with the extreme change to the system --they really should have expanded Medicare -Medicaid -and improved the existing system --over time adapting elements that work . They have not done so .

A final note --once politicians get you to attack others for having a different perspective --life experiences --and resulting opinion than your own ----well --it is what power mongers have done since human history begane isn't it ? turn people against one another to promote themselves and gain power and control .
Posted By: Dlennard

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 04:56 PM

Hey Pete another 29min wasted just to find out they can not help me. I have to start the process all over again. Maybe the website will work this time.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 04:57 PM

+1 Carl.
Good succinct post.
Posted By: Dlennard

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Carl
Originally Posted by Dlennard
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Health care costs were going up 8 to 10 0% a year for many years.... Before they blew up the economy, how to regulate Heath Care was the major issue in the election for both Ds and Rs.

Hospitals and the system pay for the uninsured ... One of the ACA's solutions was to expand Medicaid... If your state refuses to take the money... you get hit by a double wammy. Same number of uninsured that the system will have to pay for... AND they cut off the Fed medicaid uninsured payment that paid for it in the past. So... your insurance company raises the rates to pay for it. Tell your gov to take the medicare expansion... your rates will stabilize.

Prior to the ACA.... you pay the insurance company or go without. Now, you have four choices. Pay the company, or you can buy a high deductible policy on the federal insurance exchange for much less money ... or See if the comparable federal exchange group rate is better then your small group rate plan that you have now (same insurance company... different group plan) ... Or pay the fine.

The most dangerous thing you said was wait and see if i get sick... then buy something.. Huge mistake... just like your current insurance... they still have an open season... You have to enroll or change during open season. You can't wait till you need it... You will pay the fine... get treated and still owe the bills... Sure, the next open season will come up in a year and then let you purchase a plan, irrespective of your pre existing condition... but the past bills don't go away.


Thanks Mark
I already had a high deductible plan which worked fine for me as I just paid for the times I needed medical care, but the new law changed my plan to a lower deductible and doubled my rates. The higher deductible is no longer an option. If I go on the government health care I can never go back to private. The government can just up the rates and I have no choice and if I don't get good care no choice again. Several of my friends are getting the same 100% increase. I have already contacted my government officials and yes cost are going up but 100% for one year to the next is a little tough.


Hi David and all -

Good topic --Central to the Govt. shutdown is the desire to have a discussion about Obamacare as it is called in general media . As I understand it the current president refuses to discuss debate or negociate the issue with the congress.

Funny -but my basic understanding of our system of government with its checks and balances and debate of ideas was intended to promote discussion of issues and debate of those issues .

An interesting juxtapose to the refusal to discuss or negociate the health care issue by Obama is foriegn policy in which the president will negociate with ---ohh --one example -- a foriegn dictator such as Assad in Syria who according to the UN has used chemical weapons to kill his own civilian population inc womon and children --gassed to death .

Yet he is unable to negociate or refuses to discuss the issue with the other political party in the US and all those they represent --about half the population . I thought a president was supposed to represent ALL of us --not one party .

That said --the simple minded arguement that insurance cos drive the cost of health insurance is --well --just that .
There are so many factors driving costs {too many to list here} It seems very few cost reduction factors were actually addressed in O CARE --perhaps it was due to the complete lack of debate -negociation --concent of the minority party --and the ability or intent to insure ALL people are represented fairly and do indeed have a voice and perspectives that need to be heard .

Daves is an excellent example of what is already going terribley wrong with the extreme change to the system --they really should have expanded Medicare -Medicaid -and improved the existing system --over time adapting elements that work . They have not done so .

A final note --once politicians get you to attack others for having a different perspective --life experiences --and resulting opinion than your own ----well --it is what power mongers have done since human history begane isn't it ? turn people against one another to promote themselves and gain power and control .


Thanks Carl
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Dlennard
Hey Pete another 29min wasted just to find out they can not help me. I have to start the process all over again. Maybe the website will work this time.

Well, I guess we know why they have had so many calls. More lies.

Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 05:09 PM

Well, you can be angry with me or you can understand the system you are fighting was put in place by your state legislature and insurance lobby to exclude as many claims as possible i.e. people who are sick.

You might also consider the demand for this new service is so high it is crashing the system.

You migh also confront the person who told you once you leave the private system you can never go back. I suspect that is an outright lie and may be illegal.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 07:50 PM

Dave, Just to make Pete's point in another way.... Your states insurance commissioners allowed your old plan to exist. It worked for you because you did not find the holes in that policy and you liked the price. Your state's insurance commissioner would deal with the individual complaints for people who fell through that policy. The people could complain and get screwed by their insurance company but that was it. (part of the reason that insurance reform was the issue in the 08 election)

The ACA set a national standard for just what a policy had to cover. So your current policy had to change and come up to the national standard.... Your insurance commissioner must enforce the new law. So, like all insurance, if you don't use some of it... you think you are overpaying... eg materinity care... I doubt you have much need for that but it's nominally included because the law demands non discrimination against women .... Now your insurance company knows you won't need maternity care for you and the family at 50 plus... but they can blame the cost increase on this and gouge you another way.

The solution is to actually have more insurance companies in your state... In some states, one company owns 90% of the market.... it is impossible for another company to come in... find docs and hospitals and start competing. Right now,.... you have your old company.. with their individual plans... and the ACA spec policies offered by your old company but meeting the national standard. ... that is NOT competition that works for you.

In either case, what you are buying is from a private company. There is nothing free market about health insurance tho.... it is just Private and the ACA added some government regulations... eg spend 80% premium on medical payouts or send a rebate... Stock holders of the insurance companies benift because they get more customers with the ACA.

You are not getting goverment health care now... Medicare is public government run health insurance... as is Tricare for the military... as is Medicaid for poor people.. You are not using any of these public systems.

Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 07:54 PM

Note that insurance regulations vary from state to state. For instance BCBS Florida is not the same company as BCBS Indiana and they charge different rates, Fl. being much higher.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 08:45 PM

Now David , don't you feel better knowing why your old plan that you were fine with was so bad for you and the new enforced care that you don't want/need is the way to go. Now drink your Kool-aid and write your check.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 08:59 PM

FYI Pete.

This year my premium for covering just myself was $53 every two weeks (out of every check) with a $1500 deductible that I met in January with all my diabetes crap (my flex spending account helped out greatly with this).

Open enrollment for my company starts the last week in October. We've already received information that my particular plan's premium (our best plan) is going up to $95 every two weeks with a $2000 deductible and double the co-pays now.

Go to Obamacare's facebook page - its literally full of people with sticker shock wondering how the hell this is in any way "affordable".
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/06/13 09:21 PM

Raise hell with the guv'ner! He made millions working this system.

But, welcome to my world. For several years I had to buy my inusrance on the open market, it wasn't available through work. I was okay with a high deductible low premium until BCBS stopped offering that plan. It worked out though, soon after I was diagnosed with diabetes so no one would insure me at any price.

Cheers!
Posted By: Bille

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by pgp
You should start a kite boarding forum, or at least a thread.

I would've bought a kite long ago but I don't have the balls.


Kite boarding isn't Nearly as Dumb as when i do This :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3W4zyk1TYg

And i still do it a LOT.
Did i tell you How i lost both legs below the knee ?
Crash... gravity is Harsh !!!

Bille
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 01:20 AM

Now I remember why I don't kite, any kind of kite.
Posted By: Dlennard

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Dave, Just to make Pete's point in another way.... Your states insurance commissioners allowed your old plan to exist. It worked for you because you did not find the holes in that policy and you liked the price. Your state's insurance commissioner would deal with the individual complaints for people who fell through that policy. The people could complain and get screwed by their insurance company but that was it. (part of the reason that insurance reform was the issue in the 08 election)

The ACA set a national standard for just what a policy had to cover. So your current policy had to change and come up to the national standard.... Your insurance commissioner must enforce the new law. So, like all insurance, if you don't use some of it... you think you are overpaying... eg materinity care... I doubt you have much need for that but it's nominally included because the law demands non discrimination against women .... Now your insurance company knows you won't need maternity care for you and the family at 50 plus... but they can blame the cost increase on this and gouge you another way.

The solution is to actually have more insurance companies in your state... In some states, one company owns 90% of the market.... it is impossible for another company to come in... find docs and hospitals and start competing. Right now,.... you have your old company.. with their individual plans... and the ACA spec policies offered by your old company but meeting the national standard. ... that is NOT competition that works for you.

In either case, what you are buying is from a private company. There is nothing free market about health insurance tho.... it is just Private and the ACA added some government regulations... eg spend 80% premium on medical payouts or send a rebate... Stock holders of the insurance companies benift because they get more customers with the ACA.

You are not getting goverment health care now... Medicare is public government run health insurance... as is Tricare for the military... as is Medicaid for poor people.. You are not using any of these public systems.



Thanks Mark for explaining the way the new plan is working. I did not like the price of my old plan and it was just high deductible catastrophic insurance, but they did drop the deductible to 5,500 from 10,000 which I have no choice. I have only met my deductible once in34 years so I would rather have a high deductible and put the money I save in a HSA account to pay if I need to go to the doctor. Now I have to pay 5,500 extra each year so no extra to pay for the doctor should I need to go. I do realize that cost were going to go up some because of the new laws in health care just not over double what I was paying. Your explanation of the way the new market place works is not very promising to me to get much better rates since most insurance companies prices don't seem to be that different and I guess the highest deductible is 5,500 bronze plan.
Posted By: Dlennard

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 04:53 AM

Sorry to have side tracked the post a little. Air force 2 was doing practice landings last week so I guess it has not closed. It flies around a few times a month doing practice landings. I wounded how much that cost. Is the White house on federal land? I think it should close.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 05:56 AM

Quote
Your explanation of the way the new market place works is not very promising to me to get much better rates since most insurance companies prices don't seem to be that different and I guess the highest deductible is 5,500 bronze plan.


There is a reason for this.... the ACA capped your out of pocket medical expenses for a year at I think around 7 or 8 K.... So the 10 K deductable is not relevant post ACA.

Now, if you don't get really sick or injured you won't come close to the cap... The key difference is that you are buying more insurance and have less cash for general medical service. YMMV and will depend on your circumstances in the future (get sick or injured or not).

Again, If you had more insurance companies doing business in your state... You would have more choice in what your current insurer reformulated to meet the new regulations. This of course is a chicken and egg problem... Had we had more choice in the private markets...and structures to make delivery more efficient and the right amount of health care delivered at the right time we would not have needed the ACA. Health care is not like any other market.
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 07:11 AM

Just as a very bemused foreigner looking in - can somebody explain to me the negatives of "Obamacare"???

Over here we have had a government health insurance scheme for decades and although it's not perfect I'd prefer to get sick here than most other places in the world. From the very little I know, 'Obamacare' seems to be a similar system and many on this side of the pond are totally amazed at the levels of opposition to it.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 11:10 AM

Pete,

I buy my plan through my employer who has worldwide offices and who has 5000 employees. We're based in NC and we're insured through our company'd HQ there. Florida has *nothing* to do with my healthcare. Everyone in NA is paying the same thing.

Quote
But, welcome to my world. For several years I had to buy my inusrance on the open market, it wasn't available through work. I was okay with a high deductible low premium until BCBS stopped offering that plan. It worked out though, soon after I was diagnosed with diabetes so no one would insure me at any price.


I'd had type 1 since I was 4. After I graduated from college and after I lost my student healthcare insurance plan (which was $40/month) I had to go on COBRA which was $500 a month which, from what I'm reading, is an absolute steal compared to the prices that people have been getting.

As for the schadenfreude that you seem to be enjoying watching your fellow countrymen suffer with the ills you've experienced in the past....

The day of reckoning will come - and it will NOT be pleasant for your side of the aisle.

Now if you excuse me, I have an internet to go make fun of for calling this a "shutdown" with 83% of the government is still running. LOL - what a "shutdown".
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 11:21 AM

Quote
Again, If you had more insurance companies doing business in your state... You would have more choice in what your current insurer reformulated to meet the new regulations. This of course is a chicken and egg problem... Had we had more choice in the private markets...and structures to make delivery more efficient and the right amount of health care delivered at the right time we would not have needed the ACA. Health care is not like any other market.


It's currently unlike any other market... in fact we wouldn't be in this mess at all if it weren't for originaly government maniplation of free market mechanisms.

During mandatory wage freezes (instituted by the government) the free market had to come up with a way to attract and retain top talent in the labor market. They couldn't pay them more, but they could offer them "benefits" which included health insurance.

Thus began the pivotal de-linkage of the customer paying for services rendered. A third party bore the costs and therefore the supplier of these costs had no reason to be price competitive. When a patient can go up to the "health care buffett" and order the filet without having to actually PAY for it, its no wonder that nobody was eating the hamburger.

Thus the healthcare industry lost every incentive to contain costs, keep research at a sane level (Seriously, I charge clients $450/hr to work on their clinical trials) and the patient doesn't care because for the most part, they're not paying for it.

But it doesn't have to be like this. Going to the hospital should be like going to Jiffy Lube. Your kidneys need an oil change (dialysis)? That will be $75. Clearly displayed on a menu board above the nurses' station (and on the hospital's website)

There's a great piece at reason.com about the possibilities of a free market type health care system where you can walk into an office and prices are clearly displayed on a menu board. You know exactly what you're getting and what its going to cost - and since the particular example they showed didn't bother with the administrative overhead of insurance or medicare, the costs were 1/5th that of the hospitals.

Posted By: Dlennard

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Quote
Your explanation of the way the new market place works is not very promising to me to get much better rates since most insurance companies prices don't seem to be that different and I guess the highest deductible is 5,500 bronze plan.


There is a reason for this.... the ACA capped your out of pocket medical expenses for a year at I think around 7 or 8 K.... So the 10 K deductable is not relevant post ACA.

Now, if you don't get really sick or injured you won't come close to the cap... The key difference is that you are buying more insurance and have less cash for general medical service. YMMV and will depend on your circumstances in the future (get sick or injured or not).

Again, If you had more insurance companies doing business in your state... You would have more choice in what your current insurer reformulated to meet the new regulations. This of course is a chicken and egg problem... Had we had more choice in the private markets...and structures to make delivery more efficient and the right amount of health care delivered at the right time we would not have needed the ACA. Health care is not like any other market.


All true Mark except I am not buying more insurance I am just paying more than double what I was. Both plans pay 0 until the deductible have been met. Yes the new deductible is lower so the out of pocket is lower, but at double the cost. There should be a plan for people that just want insurance to cover a life changing issue. How can it be called the Affordable Care Act when it is costing me more than double what I was paying?
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Pete,

I buy my plan through my employer who has worldwide offices and who has 5000 employees. We're based in NC and we're insured through our company'd HQ there. Florida has *nothing* to do with my healthcare. Everyone in NA is paying the same thing.

Quote
But, welcome to my world. For several years I had to buy my inusrance on the open market, it wasn't available through work. I was okay with a high deductible low premium until BCBS stopped offering that plan. It worked out though, soon after I was diagnosed with diabetes so no one would insure me at any price.


I'd had type 1 since I was 4. After I graduated from college and after I lost my student healthcare insurance plan (which was $40/month) I had to go on COBRA which was $500 a month which, from what I'm reading, is an absolute steal compared to the prices that people have been getting.

As for the schadenfreude that you seem to be enjoying watching your fellow countrymen suffer with the ills you've experienced in the past....

The day of reckoning will come - and it will NOT be pleasant for your side of the aisle.

Now if you excuse me, I have an internet to go make fun of for calling this a "shutdown" with 83% of the government is still running. LOL - what a "shutdown".


Are you and Todd brothers? It sounds like it.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Originally Posted by catman

No, We are Stupid. It represents us.....right?


I don't think you can claim that it represents us anymore. In any case, I don't see the shutdown as a bad thing. For 95% of the population, nobody is going to notice a damn thing. Maybe it will get people to realize just how bloated and inefficent the whole boondoggle is.

Here's something ripe. Want to go fishing during the shutdown? Sorry - the feds have close the Florida Bay. Yes. All of it.



Give me a ****ing break - the gal of the feds to think that they're so ****ing important to society that they have to close the Bay down to commercial traffic lest all hell break loose.... in reality thats not it... this is just more of the same "make it artificially hurt so that people put pressure on the opposition to cave on their constituents."

Quote
Charter guides received a message from the National Park Service this week informing them that they are not permitted to take clients fishing in Florida Bay until the feds get back to work. That means that more than 1,100 square miles of prime fishing is off limits between the southern tip of the mainland to the Keys until further notice.

The closing affects not only fishing guides, but anyone with a license to conduct business in the park, including tour operators and paddling guides — anyone with a Commercial Use Authorization permit, said Dan Kimball, superintendent of Everglades and Dry Tortugas national parks.

Biscayne National Park is also off limits. Enforcement rangers will be on duty, Kimball said.


Regardless, this shutdown is costing hundreds of millions of dollars. On Sunday congress said passed a measure that would pay for govm't employees on furlough, i.e they are getting paid despite the fact that they aren't working. So at the end of the day, the taxpayer is getting fucked, and non-government employees like myself that rely on govm't contracts are about to get hit hard. Let's see how Wall Street takes it when 300,000 Lockheed Martin, 200,000 Boeing, 100,000 L3 etc. employees can't go to work because their contract checks aren't being written.

They are your representatives, WE voted them into power. ~95% of American's think they're congressman/woman are doing a great job for them, and it's the other representatives that are to blame. FAIL. Every single Representative and Senator should:

A) Immediately loose their paycheck upon failing to pass an actual budget (which hasn't been done for some # of decades, and is the primary reason congress exists).

B) If the budget isn't passed within the next session, every member of that congress is no longer eligible to run in the following election.

The cycle needs to be broken. Also, strict budgets on campaign spending need to be set and enforced. All additional money in the form of lobbying etc. needs to be outright banned from politics. Wake up and smell the roses people, it's major corporations that make the decisions in this country, not us.

O'Care did absolutely nothing to reduce the average per person cost of health care. All they did was steal more money from the middle class and use it to pay for the uneducated, poor man's health care, leaving us with less money to fund our children's rising education costs. Hence, the gap between the poor and the wealthy continues to spread. Please see Greece. Or add to that the fall of the Roman empire, we are repeating history in so many ways on that one.

These fuckers need to drop the healthcare issue, get the government started, then ****ing sort out O'Care. They need to force cost reduction measures in healthcare. Reducing the salary of nurses and doctors isn't how it's going to happen. It's getting the insurance companies to take a 10% cut in profits that is required. Doctors are getting fucked by them (mine left and went to Africa 3 years ago because the insurance was getting outrageous), we're paying out the butt for it, and who's getting rich?? Hit the drug companies hard too, those fuckers are raking in BILLIONS at our expense.

Plan B: kiss it all and move to the islands.

Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 02:09 PM

Pick up the phone, call your State rep and tell him you're not buying this nonsense that Obama is the bad guy (maybe he is but this insurance fiasco was engineered by the insurance lobby and state legislatures)and you intended to put someone else in his chair, leave your name and contact information, then just hang up. No discussion.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider

Again, If you had more insurance companies doing business in your state... You would have more choice in what your current insurer reformulated to meet the new regulations.


Yeah, that's been an issue in FL for decades. We have somewhat of a "unique" population which drives a pretty high loss ratio. That, and we're just one big happy boat of attorneys ( I think someone said FL is second only to CA in terms of litigation).

IIRC, there are three "players" (BCBS, United, Aetna) and two are much more expensive than the third. So really there is only one player.

I also suspect that this first period of enrollment will be "adverse selection" as the only people really paying attention to the ACA were those with healthcare needs. The young, healthy folk are tweeting about Justin Beiber and could care less about the old and infirm.

Since the employer mandate and individual fines are reduced or eliminated this go around, we'll probably see this ACA thing get off to a sputtering start which will add fodder to the political rantings on the radio. Again, show a better plan and let's talk. I think everyone agreed in principle that the status quo needed work.

Since we can't repeal or unfund the law without disaster/political brinksmanship at this point, I hope the program does indeed prove useful until we can find something better. And "Better" isn't just vetoing what we have. Please, smart people, put something together to present rather than just saying "that idea sucks".

I like as little government as possible, but I'm not one to cheer the failure of gov't just to make a point.

I feel for Carl; my annual plan costs about as much as his. I'm hoping that next year's renewal (ours was Sept) will see a little improvement in price as I'm banned from the exchange because my employer's plan "complies". It's high-deductible FSA thing, too.

Part of the reason for this plan's increase was the requirement to add maternity benefits to any female "of child bearing age". Really? Is 50 now considered "child bearing age"? And they cover fertility treatments as well... So now 50+ females who had their tubes tied in the 90's can be mommies. Do they realize they'll be 70 when that child gets to college (and needs money)?

Please tell every healthy young person you can find to sign up and pay their share or else this thing is sunk... In the meantime no one get sick or go kitesailing, skateboarding, etc. smile

Yay! Another Drill thread! Yippeee!

Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 02:27 PM

oh, and if Key Biscayne and Florida Bay are closed, can i go in there and grab every last lobster,crab and snook I can find?

Maybe I can get some logging done in Yellowstone, too.. smile

There was a radio story about a dude who waited 18 years for a permit to travel down the Columbia river in Grand Canyon. He showed up at the entrance and it was locked. He had $30,000 USD into the trip already and were stuck camping in the parking lot. I feel for that dude... But maybe the moral of the story is don't count on the gov't for your holiday?

Now, is there a silver lining to this shutdown? Are we saving any money by not paying wages this week?
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 02:28 PM

Some of you may not know that the Federal government is the ONLY flood insurer. Any insurance agency can write a flood policy and they are glad to do so because it generates a small profit for the agency and company and the company assumes no liability.

This, imo, is a better plan for health insurance than the one we now have.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by pgp
Some of you may not know that the Federal government is the ONLY flood insurer. Any insurance agency can write a flood policy and they are glad to do so because it generates a small profit for the agency and company and the company assumes no liability.

This, imo, is a better plan for health insurance than the one we now have.


Actually, Pete, there are carriers that write flood outside NFIP. Few... and for unique risks and XS flood limits, but they are there.

More private companies would write flood if NFIP wasn't subsidizing so much premium and making it unprofitable at the current rates (hence the BW12 "fix").

Florida cedes $4 in premium for every $1 it receives in claim payment. Let that settle in for a bit...
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by pgp
Originally Posted by Undecided
Pete,

I buy my plan through my employer who has worldwide offices and who has 5000 employees. We're based in NC and we're insured through our company'd HQ there. Florida has *nothing* to do with my healthcare. Everyone in NA is paying the same thing.

Quote
But, welcome to my world. For several years I had to buy my inusrance on the open market, it wasn't available through work. I was okay with a high deductible low premium until BCBS stopped offering that plan. It worked out though, soon after I was diagnosed with diabetes so no one would insure me at any price.


I'd had type 1 since I was 4. After I graduated from college and after I lost my student healthcare insurance plan (which was $40/month) I had to go on COBRA which was $500 a month which, from what I'm reading, is an absolute steal compared to the prices that people have been getting.

As for the schadenfreude that you seem to be enjoying watching your fellow countrymen suffer with the ills you've experienced in the past....

The day of reckoning will come - and it will NOT be pleasant for your side of the aisle.

Now if you excuse me, I have an internet to go make fun of for calling this a "shutdown" with 83% of the government is still running. LOL - what a "shutdown".


Are you and Todd brothers? It sounds like it.


Brothers of common sense. You should try it sometime.
Apply the "business strategy" of the ACA to any other business and look how flawed it is. You and Mark both are so infatuated with Obama, the logic of what he does doesn't matter to you. A greater percentage of Americans (because Pete, this is an American problem) polled in numerous polls are against the ACA.

Quote
As for the schadenfreude that you seem to be enjoying watching your fellow countrymen suffer with the ills you've experienced in the past....

The day of reckoning will come - and it will NOT be pleasant for your side of the aisle.


Amen!
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by pgp
Some of you may not know that the Federal government is the ONLY flood insurer. Any insurance agency can write a flood policy and they are glad to do so because it generates a small profit for the agency and company and the company assumes no liability.

This, imo, is a better plan for health insurance than the one we now have.


Actually, Pete, there are carriers that write flood outside NFIP. Few... and for unique risks and XS flood limits, but they are there.

More private companies would write flood if NFIP wasn't subsidizing so much premium and making it unprofitable at the current rates (hence the BW12 "fix").

Florida cedes $4 in premium for every $1 it receives in claim payment. Let that settle in for a bit...


Can you 'splain that to me please? I thought the history of flood loss was so huge the privates didn't want in.

My spidey sense tells me NFIP is a little like Glass-Steagall; revoke it and the market will explode and crash.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 04:18 PM

I thought most private companies pulled out of florida following one of the big ones... The state of Fla had to step in and self insure. The politics of it were the feds were not going to increase their subsidies and the price was skyrocketing. (just another example of a free market failure)
Posted By: Carl

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 04:26 PM

Enjoyed reading all the opinions and info --correction for Jay --it was David's example rather than mine .

Just read and saw on the news today that the president still refuses to negociate or talk directly with congress --our elected representatives ! I guess what they say is true --"the president is an extremist ideologue" . Problem is the damage that involves for so many of us not represented or interests addressed nor counted or cared for in his politically driven ideologue's adgenda .

Why can't the president meet and help find some common ground and solutions to the obvious ongoing problems with O CARE ? Why doesn't he seem to care about the concerns and real problems with it that are ongoing for so many millions of us ?

This episode in history illustrates once again how divisive and disfuctional our political class has become and how unequal,broken, and unfair the current system has become as result of being so divided as a people and nation.

Deflecting to blame insurance cos --well --its not the real problem --most understand this.

Our 2 party basic political system that served us so well in past U.S. history now is failing us due to all the usual failures as through all of human history --Sam noted the Roman empire and its collapse in example --base causes are much the same currently --human behavior has not really changed that much . Political power -information manipulation -political propaganda -extremist ideological adgendas ,money power ,greed -etc are the sources of human misery through history and among the tools used to pit one group of people against the other .

We need a new perspective or renewed higher understanding of the inequities and failure of our current system. We need to reject the red vs blue mentality that prevails in media and our inept political class.

Like it or not the nations 16 -17 trillion debt and trillion dollar budgets with near billion dollar political campaigns {per Obama and others }with resulting bad laws and poorly thought out often divisive legislation determine our existances and our well being. O CARE now largely controlling health care as million more of us are dumped into an already indept overloaded bankrupt system .

All we can realistically do is understand that the political system as it exists currently promotes one group of people and their interests at the expence of others represented by the other party and vice versa . This has been taken to such an extreme that it no longer really serves us longterm though does befit those in power and their political support money power groups shorterm .

Again Daves example of how the working person in the private sector is being beaten down -taxed fined feed and systematically eliminated as millions of small biz people have been in the last decade in record numbers illustrates that point . No one can afford that type of increase in costs

Contast Daves common working mans situation with those supporting the political party in power ---the power money political groups used as tools to divide us ---inc politicians themselves recieving cadillac type health care plans inc free viagra --

Perhaps a more centrist group of us will emerge neither red or blue but cognizant of how unequal the system is and dedicated to fixing the system and insuring ALL -as in "we the people" --are represented . If we are to be part of a collectivist ideology base system lets work to make it a free will rather than forced system . Lets work to correct the inequities and what is already shaping into a 2 tier system of health care --the upper tier for those in political power and their support money power groups with Cadillac type health care plans ----lesser care for the rest of us . --

Our future is still ours to shape --please remind those in power and their supporters of how unequal the system is and how it is failing millions --it only gets worse if we don't get involved .
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 04:27 PM

It's complicated. There is a Florida company that is an insurer of last resort underwritten by the tax payers.

The big private companies have been in and out over the years. Allstate now has a separate company just for Florida. I'm sure the other major companies do as well.

But it's two different things. Basically Flood insurance covers rising water, HO covers falling water.

The private companies now have "named storm" deductibles and tried to exclude named storm coverage all together.

Most insurors don't want these massive liabilities. They jus want to cover things that aren't likely to happen.

So I wonder if insurance is the right program to cover health care. We all know lots of people who've never filed an auto or HO claim but I doubt we know anyone who's never been to the Dr.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 05:24 PM

Quote
So I wonder if insurance is the right program to cover health care. We all know lots of people who've never filed an auto or HO claim but I doubt we know anyone who's never been to the Dr.


This is precisely the point.

Why the hell do we have "insurance" for Health Care?

What we have today isn't "insurance" - its a shared pool of resources out of which the administrator takes his pound of flesh. Its almost communist in nature - no wonder its falling apart.

So why don't we have market-based cost controls put into place - by outlawing anything but catastrophic coverage. When the people actually have to price-compare their choice of doctor, like they do for where they eat, where they sleep, and other basic necessities of life - then you'll start seeing these megalithic health care corporations scrambling to find every bit of efficiency out there as they have to compete with all the other healthcare providers out there.

Please note that I say this as the spouse of doctor. A system like this would more than likely drop doctor compensation overall - but it wouldn't be artificially imposed. It would be as organic as the free market system.

(And before the bleeding hearts start jumping down my throat bemoaning the lack of heart I have for the poor - there would be a safety net with healthcare "foodstamps")
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
The politics of it were the feds were not going to increase their subsidies and the price was skyrocketing. (just another example of a free market failure)


Actually, as a result of BW12, the subsidies are going away. I've been whining about this for about a year (we had a flood map change last year, too, to add to the whining), but everyone ignored it until now.... they're seeing premiums jump. In some cases astronomically. A $1500 policy is now around $8000 (pre-FIRM, under BFE). Grandfathering goes away maybe next year, and that means all the condo towers on the beach. Wait until they get hit with that hike... A lot of those folk have nothing better to do than sit in their congressman's office... smile

There was talk at the 9/24 meeting about secession from NFIP by the state but I doubt that's gonna happen. If rates were actuarially sound (and not subsidized) it would be a lot more likely...



Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
I thought most private companies pulled out of florida following one of the big ones... The state of Fla had to step in and self insure. The politics of it were the feds were not going to increase their subsidies and the price was skyrocketing. (just another example of a free market failure)


You may be talking about windstorm (and the birth of Citizens Insurance Corp) after Andrew in '92

I still can't believe residents are okay with paying a fee on their policies to subsidize the uber-wealthy and their 3rd beachfront vacation mansions. Because they just can't afford to pay full rate on windstorm for that $11 million house (that they paid cash for).

Sh*t, they should give me the keys to use it when they're not there in summer. I'd even clean up after myself smile
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
I thought most private companies pulled out of florida following one of the big ones... The state of Fla had to step in and self insure. The politics of it were the feds were not going to increase their subsidies and the price was skyrocketing. (just another example of a free market failure)



Failure of the free market? Really?! I don't think so. If you live in a place where your house ends up under water on a regular basis you don't think the cost should be astronomical? Are you blatantly retarded or just trolling? If the free market were allowed to run its course, people wouldn't live in stupid places. That's like me putting in a claim for busted water pipes because I'm too ignorant to turn the heat on and keep them from freezing.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Carl

Perhaps a more centrist group of us will emerge neither red or blue but cognizant of how unequal the system is and dedicated to fixing the system and insuring ALL -as in "we the people" --are represented .


That sounds an awful lot like the "silent majority". Maybe this will mobilize them after all...
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
(And before the bleeding hearts start jumping down my throat bemoaning the lack of heart I have for the poor - there would be a safety net with healthcare "foodstamps")



Screw the poor. If they knew anything, they wouldn't be poor. Darwinism used to wipe these fuckwits from the face of the earth. Now we give em' every chance to drag the rest of us down with them. If you can't support yourself, turn to your family. If they aren't willing to, then go suck on the business end of a twelve gauge.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 05:38 PM

That's just evil dude.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 05:40 PM

wait, Karl, I thought said you were poor!

I thought I was too, but I guess it depends on your definition. Are you poor when you collect aid ( from gov't or others), or if you live under a certain socio-economic threshold?

I know I'd be "rich" in Kazakhstan, but not really interested in living there ....
Posted By: tback

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
wait, Karl, I thought said you were poor!



He was .... but ... now he's married! grin
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 06:25 PM

I've always taken care of myself and never needed a handout. There's a huge difference between not having play money and sucking the system's teat.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 07:22 PM

karma, juju. Bad stuff bruh.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
I've always taken care of myself and never needed a handout.


okay, so regardless of your net worth if you don't take a handout, you're not poor. I'll use that definition....

wait... what about medicare? is that sucking teat?
Posted By: F-18 5150

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by Undecided
(And before the bleeding hearts start jumping down my throat bemoaning the lack of heart I have for the poor - there would be a safety net with healthcare "foodstamps")



Screw the poor. If they knew anything, they wouldn't be poor. Darwinism used to wipe these fuckwits from the face of the earth. Now we give em' every chance to drag the rest of us down with them. If you can't support yourself, turn to your family. If they aren't willing to, then go suck on the business end of a twelve gauge.


So basically get a job or sleep with someone that has a job?
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 07:26 PM

what's really funny is that most of ya'll are a hoot to sail with...
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger

Screw the poor. If they knew anything, they wouldn't be poor. Darwinism used to wipe these fuckwits from the face of the earth. Now we give em' every chance to drag the rest of us down with them. If you can't support yourself, turn to your family. If they aren't willing to, then go suck on the business end of a twelve gauge.


Sex on a regular basis hasn't changed your sunny disposition one bit, for a while there I thought we were going to lose you to marital bliss. You are one of my favorite broken toys...carry on Karl.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 08:37 PM

wait, you get sex on a regular basis if you're married?

when did that happen? Crap... why can't life come with a dang owner's manual?
Posted By: P.M.

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by pgp
Bring it to PA.

W.T.F.? Look's like you jump in head first.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 10:04 PM

PA is great for political discussions!
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by pgp
PA is great for political discussions!


That place has turned into a personal attack cesspool..




Posted By: Bille

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/07/13 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
wait, you get sex on a regular basis if you're married?

when did that happen? Crap... why can't life come with a dang owner's manual?


A Lot of the married women i know, have Most of there sex
with themselves,(after there husbands leave for work);
that's what they tell Me anyway. HeHe!!

Bille
Posted By: PTP

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/08/13 12:51 AM

Anyone else read through these types of threads and don't read the responses once you see certain people's names? You already know what they are going to say..

Haven't checked catsailor in a while...
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/08/13 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by Bille

A Lot of the married women i know, have Most of there sex
with themselves,(after there husbands leave for work);
that's what they tell Me anyway. HeHe!!

Bille


Pictures and/or video or it never happened.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/08/13 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by Carl
Good topic --Central to the Govt. shutdown is the desire to have a discussion about Obamacare as it is called in general media . As I understand it the current president refuses to discuss debate or negociate the issue with the congress.

There's nothing to discuss, debate, or negotiate. Both Houses passed a law and the President signed it. If the American Taliban want to change the law, write a Bill, get both Houses to pass it and have the President sign it. Easy peasy.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Bille

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/08/13 04:56 AM

That "House of TURDS" just Flushed there toilet.
Flushed it, and now the Entire country is drowning
and suffocating in the stench .

Did i ask to Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing ?
I know now and i am NOT Happy about it !!!

Bille
Posted By: Pirate

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/08/13 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Crap... why can't life come with a dang owner's manual?


"us males"wouldnt read it anyway.....

much like those "easy instruction sheets on the assembly" we'll all see at xmas for kids toys etc.....its only when it goes wrong we start looking for the 'instructions' that are now in the rubbish with all the wrapping paper...

not that I fessing up to anything .....

shocked
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/08/13 02:02 PM

okay, dumb question:

If I have my information straight, many politicians want minimal government.

As this "shutdown" didn't really close EVERYTHING, is our present situation considered "minimal government"?

If this is what "minimal government" looks like, are you happy with it?

If not, which things would you bring back?

(Please note I am not advocating the line-item bill strategy they're trying, but curious on a more abstract level)

I guess at this point we haven't descended into anarchy so is it that bad?
Posted By: Bille

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/09/13 01:57 AM

This may annoy Ya a Bit ; it did Me :

From :
http://washingtonexaminer.com/park-...-on-closed-national-mall/article/2536908

Originally Posted by Washington Examiner

A planned immigration reform rally will take place on the National Mall on Tuesday even though the site is closed due to the government shutdown.


SO
They get to have there rally, but I Can't go sailing
because my Lake is CLOSED ????

Bille
Posted By: TeamChums

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/09/13 03:02 AM

Quote
Screw the poor. If they knew anything, they wouldn't be poor. Darwinism used to wipe these fuckwits from the face of the earth. Now we give em' every chance to drag the rest of us down with them. If you can't support yourself, turn to your family. If they aren't willing to, then go suck on the business end of a twelve gauge.


Good point. The Indians used to believe it was best to shoot the buffalo that ran in the back of the heard because they were the slowest. This weeded out the weaker ones and kept the overall gene pool of the herd stronger and more prepared to handle the harsh winters. In turn, the Indians kept their meat supply strong.
Now look at the US Citizens as a heard of buffalo. The weak ones (and I'm talking about the ones who are f'n lazy and won't be productive members of society) are coddled and rewarded for their weakness while the faster ones have to slow down and take care of them or they will be penalized and ridiculed by the rest of society...all the while, slowing down and making the heard weaker until disease and starvation sets in...other wise known as "The American Way". BTW, was that racist to say "Indians"? I'm not sure now.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/09/13 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by TeamChums
Good point. The Indians used to believe it was best to shoot the buffalo that ran in the back of the heard because they were the slowest. This weeded out the weaker ones and kept the overall gene pool of the herd stronger and more prepared to handle the harsh winters. In turn, the Indians kept their meat supply strong.
Now look at the US Citizens as a heard of buffalo. The weak ones (and I'm talking about the ones who are f'n lazy and won't be productive members of society) are coddled and rewarded for their weakness while the faster ones have to slow down and take care of them or they will be penalized and ridiculed by the rest of society...all the while, slowing down and making the heard weaker until disease and starvation sets in...other wise known as "The American Way". BTW, was that racist to say "Indians"? I'm not sure now.

And you will, of course, be at the head of the herd (or is it heard?) as a member of the Master Race Chumlee.
Posted By: TeamChums

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/09/13 04:31 PM

Mike, I have no idea why I even clicked on your post since I've had you on ignore for years.
You are the prime example of a "cyber bully". You poke and jab at anyone who doesn't share the same opinion as you. You change their names to be condescending and pick apart their grammar and spelling just to make yourself feel better. I was bullied all through my childhood for looking Asian and being small (late bloomer). People like you made my life miserable. How would you like people picking on your child? I bet you don't have to give that a second thought do ya? I've had enough of your personal jabs at me. Why don't you go crawl back in your hole and bully some other people out in cyber space since that's all you seem to be good at. I truly wish we could meet in person some day.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/09/13 05:09 PM

Might only apply to humans and elephants, but to slow down movement, wound one of the unit. Usually the one near the middle
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/09/13 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Might only apply to humans and elephants, but to slow down movement, wound one of the unit. Usually the one near the middle

Hence the military's shift to .223 (m-16, m-4 etc.) instead of .308.Takes 3 out of the fight instead of one.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/09/13 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by TeamChums
Good point. The Indians used to believe it was best to shoot the buffalo that ran in the back of the heard because they were the slowest. This weeded out the weaker ones and kept the overall gene pool of the herd stronger and more prepared to handle the harsh winters. In turn, the Indians kept their meat supply strong.
Now look at the US Citizens as a heard of buffalo. The weak ones (and I'm talking about the ones who are f'n lazy and won't be productive members of society) are coddled and rewarded for their weakness while the faster ones have to slow down and take care of them or they will be penalized and ridiculed by the rest of society...all the while, slowing down and making the heard weaker until disease and starvation sets in...other wise known as "The American Way". BTW, was that racist to say "Indians"? I'm not sure now.


Originally Posted by TeamChums
Mike, I have no idea why I even clicked on your post since I've had you on ignore for years.
You are the prime example of a "cyber bully". You poke and jab at anyone who doesn't share the same opinion as you. You change their names to be condescending and pick apart their grammar and spelling just to make yourself feel better. I was bullied all through my childhood for looking Asian and being small (late bloomer). People like you made my life miserable. How would you like people picking on your child? I bet you don't have to give that a second thought do ya? I've had enough of your personal jabs at me. Why don't you go crawl back in your hole and bully some other people out in cyber space since that's all you seem to be good at. I truly wish we could meet in person some day.

You're sure making up for your childhood Chumlee. That might explain why you're always cleaning your guns. Do you drool while wiping down the barrel? Do you think about shooting some weak ones in the herd?

What would you do if we did meet Chumlee? Show me how tough you are by throwing some punches? Pull out a gun and threaten me? You're a real manly man Chumlee.
Posted By: Bille

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/10/13 12:07 AM

WOW --- my thread sure took a weird turn !!

BTW --- If anyone here is planning on culling me from
the Herd, because i walk on two fake legs ; might
be good to ask exactly what it was i did in Army
Intelligence first. Your only gonna get One chance
so make it a Good one !!

And secondly :
Are you Guys always this Screwed Up ; or is the
wind just Not blowing for some cat sailing ? That
i can understand. As the Thread topic stated, i
can't go sailing right now because my lake is CLOSED
but i'm not in Nearly as Bad a mood as some here appear to be !!

Bille
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/10/13 12:12 AM

This is pretty much the norm.

Seriously, what if you just go sailing anyway? Surely you won't get shot or even arrested.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/10/13 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by Bille
WOW --- my thread sure took a weird turn !!

BTW --- If anyone here is planning on culling me from
the Herd, because i walk on two fake legs ; might
be good to ask exactly what it was i did in Army
Intelligence first. Your only gonna get One chance
so make it a Good one !!

And secondly :
Are you Guys always this Screwed Up ; or is the
wind just Not blowing for some cat sailing ? That
i can understand. As the Thread topic stated, i
can't go sailing right now because my lake is CLOSED
but i'm not in Nearly as Bad a mood as some here appear to be !!

Bille

Chumlee has a permanent case of the Red butt. He's a chicken hawk who never wore the uniform and thinks having a big arsenal at home makes him a tough guy. He also has no sense of humor.
Posted By: Bille

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/10/13 06:04 AM

Originally Posted by hobie1616

...
Chumlee has a permanent case of the Red butt. He's a chicken hawk who never wore the uniform and thinks having a big arsenal at home makes him a tough guy. He also has no sense of humor.


Here's a story Ya might ponder for a few :

Started hunting the bobwhite quail with a double barrel Remington at age 10 ; that
was in Southern Maryland. By age 13, I asked my Dad if I quit hunting them, would
I be considered a wimp ?
Obviously, he asked Why ; to which i replied : " there's No sport in hunting something that has
absolutely (O) chance of escape", basically, once i took aim the Lil birdie was Dead.

Ya starting to get it ?

SO -- Where is the sport in picking on someone Ya know might be a bit sensitive ;
Especially
since you know his sense of humor was taken away a Long time ago ?

Personally, i think you would have a Lot more fun trying to pick on me instead !
If you can get me to blow-up, I'll drink a pint or two of JD with Ya ; then start all over
again but now, I'm a bit smarter for it !! That's what rednecks like me do, (St. Mary's county).

If Ya don't get it by now, then your fricken stupid, and I won't have any Fun with you !!
Your Not Stupid are Ya ? (smile)-----------------the JD is awaiting

I'm going to repack my reserve and go jump off a 3,500ft mt
with a Rigid-wing Hang glider this weekend ; since sailing
is out, because Mohave is closed.

Bille
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/10/13 03:44 PM

Tell ya what Bille, as you're new here I'll cut you some slack. You have no idea of what Chumlee has spewed out over the last few years. To get an idea go to http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=255741&page=1 . It's a long forum so just read through the last year. Ol' Chumlee uses threats, obscenities, etc. to get his Master Race point of view across. You read one message where's he's gone sissy and go all double barrel Remington. Nice move.

Have a nice time flying, I'm doing a delivery from Oahu.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/10/13 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Might only apply to humans and elephants, but to slow down movement, wound one of the unit. Usually the one near the middle

Hence the military's shift to .223 (m-16, m-4 etc.)


shhhh! Don't tell all those Rambo wanna-bes buying up every AR they can get their grubby little fingers on... You want to mess up that super-hot market?

Geeze... Next thing you'll be saying is you can't make head shots at 1000 meters with an offhand grip on a 9mm pistol like they do on TV.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/10/13 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Bille
Originally Posted by hobie1616

...
Chumlee has a permanent case of the Red butt. He's a chicken hawk who never wore the uniform and thinks having a big arsenal at home makes him a tough guy. He also has no sense of humor.


Here's a story Ya might ponder for a few :

Started hunting the bobwhite quail with a double barrel Remington at age 10 ; that
was in Southern Maryland. By age 13, I asked my Dad if I quit hunting them, would
I be considered a wimp ?
Obviously, he asked Why ; to which i replied : " there's No sport in hunting something that has
absolutely (O) chance of escape", basically, once i took aim the Lil birdie was Dead.

Ya starting to get it ?

SO -- Where is the sport in picking on someone Ya know might be a bit sensitive ;
Especially
since you know his sense of humor was taken away a Long time ago ?

Personally, i think you would have a Lot more fun trying to pick on me instead !
If you can get me to blow-up, I'll drink a pint or two of JD with Ya ; then start all over
again but now, I'm a bit smarter for it !! That's what rednecks like me do, (St. Mary's county).

If Ya don't get it by now, then your fricken stupid, and I won't have any Fun with you !!
Your Not Stupid are Ya ? (smile)-----------------the JD is awaiting

I'm going to repack my reserve and go jump off a 3,500ft mt
with a Rigid-wing Hang glider this weekend ; since sailing
is out, because Mohave is closed.

Bille


Bille,

Sitting here in good 'ol St. Mary's county, seems they let the Gov's back on the base so I could make it to my office. Fortunately they never closed the Chesapeake so we got some excellent sailing in, and am looking forward to more this weekend.

Unfortunately I don't have time tonight to grab a beer with you (and I think we're down to the Tides, Green Door and Ruddy Duck?), maybe next week, thank you for your service to this country, enjoy the hang gliding!
Posted By: Bille

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/10/13 07:37 PM

I miss that place, Vegas is like culture-shock in comparison.
Was doing my hunting 20 miles North of Pax-river Navel air station
and learned to sail from the commander of that base in the
late 60's. Taught sailing in Piney Point at the Harry Lundeberg School

I bet it's all super populated now , then when i was there ?
I'll have a beer for Ya tonight !

Bille

OOPS -- the guy that taught me to sail was NOT the base commander, he
was a commander , and chief of staff of the Naval-base at Pax-river.
Posted By: jkkartz1

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/11/13 05:20 PM

My thoughts.

I will use the words "us" and "we" as terms for our society as a whole.

First a couple of personal experiences and some editorial comment.

In the fall of 1975, as a naïve college senior 22 year old, I walked into Management 487, the "Capstone Course of the School of Business Administration at Florida Atlantic University". There sat an elegantly dressed gentleman. He went on to introduce himself as a Harvard MBA that went to school on the GI Bill and serving in the college cafeteria. He then rose from his desk and pointed to the blackboard where he had written the capital letters "M G A". He then asked us what this stood for. We all sat there scratching our heads. He the proudly proclaimed, "This is what this class is all about, Money, Greed and Avarice".

This is what is taught in business school and we reap the results.

Now we advance to after the election of 2010. My would be red neck cousin in law calls me to ask a question concerning his mother's insurance policy. Later on in the conversation he asks, "What do you think of the election"? I responded that I thought the we elected a governor (Rick Scott of Florida)that is probably a criminal. His response was, "That F****** N***** President has got to go".

Of all of the insults I can think of there isn't one as demeaning to a white man as that is to a black man.

What has this got to do with why you can't go sailing? I can only speak to what I know, Flood Insurance.

Many years ago flood coverage was a covered peril under most property insurance policies. After some severe floods, the insurance companies realized that they could not estimate the risk to price it and that it was more trouble than it was worth. After some years past and several economic devastating flood occurrences we decided that the only way to protect our fellow citizens from this pain was to pass the National Flood Insurance Program legislation.

It was not without faults, It has gone broke several times and several attempts have been made to strengthen the program. We loudly complained as we refunded the program pay the claims. The last straw was when Katrina flooded New Orleans and the program went broke again and then legislation expired. After a several month lapse in the program we passed a new law that required actuarial sound rates so that we did not have to fund the claims after the fact.

In the past month, my brother in law was looking a buying a weekend retreat house located in a flood zone. He got the quote under the new rates yesterday and is withdrawing his purchase offer.

The State of Mississippi, hardly a bastion of liberalism is challenging the new law that the rates are unfair and will thwart economic activity. Our self proclaimed Tea Party governor is joining in the suit as a friend of the court.

Yesterday said governor criticized our president for a "lack of leadership" for not leading the fight against a policy that forced a program that has attempted to reduce it feeding at the federal trough.

Where does fiscal conservatism begin?

To MN3:

Which "idiot president" do you refer to?

I'm going to put you in the same column as my cousin in law. You carry a lot of hate.

Yes, I laughed at the "Some village in Texas has lost its idiot" cartoon, but I never related him to an ape, which we have evolved from. If our president had curly, red hair and was of Irish heritage named Barry O'Brien would you still call him an idiot?

So let's look back at the presidents in my lifetime.

Obama-Spent his first 2 years trying to clean up an economic and military disaster. Since then he has tried to level the playing field for most of us. Is he a Muslum?
It doesn't matter. As I remember the day before Money, Greed and Avarice Day is a holiday that was started by a group of people that came to this country to escape religious persecution.

W-He's not an idiot, he start an unneeded war that was only paid for by special legislation out of the budget process and cost too much blood and treasure. Medicare Part D was a good idea, again unfunded.

Clinton-I would not let my daughters in a room alone with him. But he ran a fairly successful economy and we survived to live another day.

Bush the Senior-A good man that had the restraint to know when to stop, whether Iraq or paying for our debts through a tax increase. I was again laid off from what I thought was a lifetime job.

Reagan-I was laid off from what I thought would be a lifetime job. He got lucky and was in the right place at the right time.

Carter-The most humane president we will probably ever see.

Nixon-Good, opened relations with China, ended the draft and my $100 income tax refund. Ya'all know the bad.

Johnson-More mixture of good and bad.

Kennedy-A life cut short by hate

Eisenhower-Remember the warning of the military industrial complex.

Random thoughts

Ya don't like the auto bailout, then buy a Ford.

Don't like TARP, then use a bank that didn't take any money.

Did you buy a Kia or a Hyundai? Do you think that they have an unfair advantage as they do not pay sufficient taxes to pay us back for their defense?

The guy at Home Despot did not understand when I asked if they had a brand of plywood besides Weyerhaeuser. I prefer my money not go to the Koch brothers.

And finally, I know that Larry spends plenty of money on lobbying, but I'm sure glad that his hobby is sailing and not trying to squeeze every last cent out of the rest of us.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/11/13 05:52 PM

Don't forget to credit Clinton for signing the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Much of the economic activity that followed was a stampede of lemmings over a cliff.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/11/13 06:23 PM

And there's the race card. Amazing we made it 7 pages before it got thrown out, although I was tempted to throw one on Jdub for his critique of Thomas Sowell but just as the one above it would have been all for show and basically pointless, factually.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/11/13 07:27 PM

This might put your lake closure in perspective.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/11/13 08:21 PM

speaking of race cards, is there any racing going on this weekend?
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/12/13 05:50 PM

Can anyone tell me who said this?

Quote
The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion. That is ‘‘trillion’’ with a ‘‘T.’’ That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers. And over the next 5 years, between now and 2011, the President’s budget will increase the debt by almost another $3.5 trillion......

Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘‘the buck stops here.’’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.



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Senator Barrack Obama 3/16/2006


Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/12/13 06:16 PM

It's always interesting to watch someone on the outside make statements going one direction and then, when thrown into the deep end of the pool and overwhelmed with reality, go in a completely different direction. And, the financial and military mess Bush left behind certainly didn't help a new president with some breathing room to transition into office.
Posted By: jkkartz1

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/13/13 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
This might put your lake closure in perspective.

[Linked Image]


Is that cowboy on leased Federal land?
Just a little background.


www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS21232.pdf
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/14/13 06:40 AM

My outlaws just head off for what is supposed to be a trip of a lifetime to USA. Looks like 1/2 the attractions will be shut coz USA govco can't get it's **** together. Just trying to get my head around what's not actually working for the people who live there and depend on the services in day to day life.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/14/13 01:11 PM

Its complete anarchy. Properties burning, no police, looting, food is running short, most of the gas stations are out of fuel, just this morning I ran out of toilet paper.

Not true, and I'm kidding. 99% of the population wouldn't even notice if it weren't on the news constantly.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/14/13 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Its complete anarchy. Properties burning, no police, looting, food is running short, most of the gas stations are out of fuel, just this morning I ran out of toilet paper.

Not true, and I'm kidding. 99% of the population wouldn't even notice if it weren't on the news constantly.


More of the population than that is furloughed as a result of the shut down....more people notice.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/14/13 02:42 PM

Did I hear correctly that they moved to provide back-pay for those furloughed workers?

So it's like a paid vacation?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/14/13 02:54 PM

(according to some congressman i saw on the news the other day) no federal employee has EVER not been paid in full during a furlough.


So we pay for them not to work, then when they go back ... we pay them again to do the same job, and now this has pushed back other work ... so it hurts us (the taxpayer) 3x


Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Did I hear correctly that they moved to provide back-pay for those furloughed workers?

So it's like a paid vacation?
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/14/13 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Its complete anarchy. Properties burning, no police, looting, food is running short, most of the gas stations are out of fuel, just this morning I ran out of toilet paper.

Not true, and I'm kidding. 99% of the population wouldn't even notice if it weren't on the news constantly.


More of the population than that is furloughed as a result of the shut down....more people notice.


800,000 people on furlough? That's .002% by my math if there's 360 million people in the U.S.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/14/13 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Its complete anarchy. Properties burning, no police, looting, food is running short, most of the gas stations are out of fuel


Karl,

When did you move to Chicago?
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/15/13 03:20 PM

Dont forget the furloughed employees can and are collecting unemployment and will get their back pay. Pretty sweet deal if you ask me, none of the NASA employees I know are worried about being on the bench.
Posted By: mbounds

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/15/13 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by David Ingram
Dont forget the furloughed employees can and are collecting unemployment and will get their back pay. Pretty sweet deal if you ask me, none of the NASA employees I know are worried about being on the bench.

They don't get to have their cake and eat it, too - they have to repay their unemployment if they get back pay.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/15/13 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by mbounds
They don't get to have their cake and eat it, too - they have to repay their unemployment if they get back pay.


How do you audit that?
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/15/13 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by mbounds
They don't get to have their cake and eat it, too - they have to repay their unemployment if they get back pay.


How do you audit that?


Duh, the honor system... geeesh.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/15/13 07:14 PM

oh yeah, I forgot...

Like the honor system on those EBT cards when the computer glitched...
Posted By: Clayton

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/15/13 07:49 PM

Oh, yeah the EBT cards... Wasn't that here in Louisiana? Why did it have to be here? We are always the 1st in the worst things.

C
Posted By: mbounds

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/15/13 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by mbounds
They don't get to have their cake and eat it, too - they have to repay their unemployment if they get back pay.


How do you audit that?


Duh, the honor system... geeesh.

You might want to read up on it - you never know when you'll need "Reemployment Assistance Payments" as Florida calls them:
Quote
The Department of Economic Opportunity has partnerships with the State and National Directories of New Hires that provide information regarding an individuals' employment status. In addition, benefit payments are compared to wage records reported by employers to the Florida Department of Revenue. We also receive tips from the public and from employers in response to periodic notices the agency mails.

Quote
Listed below are some of the actions available to the agency in order to collect outstanding overpayments.

Reemployment Assistance fraud is a third degree felony. Fraud cases will be filed with the state attorney for possible prosecution.
Non-fraud cases are filed in civil court and based on a judgment from the court the agency may garnish or attach your future wages.
Your debt can be forwarded to the Department of Financial Service for collection by the collection agency under contract to the department.
If you file a new reemployment assistance claim, each payable week will be used to repay the outstanding overpayment balance.
Lottery winnings are withheld to pay back an unemployment compensation overpayment. Additionally, the penalties for reemployment assistance fraud are covered under Florida Statutes 443.071 (1) and 443.101 (6). Below are the statutes:


REEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE

443.071 Penalties.

(1) Any person who makes a false statement or representation, knowing it to be false, or knowingly fails to disclose a material fact to obtain or increase any benefits or other payment under this chapter or under an employment security law of any other state, of the Federal Government, or of a foreign government, either for herself or himself or for any other person, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. Each false statement or representation or failure to disclose a material fact constitutes a separate offense.

443.101 Disqualification for benefits.

(6) For a period not to exceed 1 year from the date of the discovery by the Department of Economic Opportunity of the making of any false or fraudulent representation for the purpose of obtaining benefits contrary to this chapter, constituting a violation under s. 443.071. This disqualification may be appealed in the same manner as any other disqualification imposed under this section. A conviction by any court of competent jurisdiction in this state of the offense prohibited or punished by s. 443.071 is conclusive upon the appeals referee and the commission of the making of the false or fraudulent representation for which disqualification is imposed under this section.


All from Florida Dept. of Economic Opportunity - FAQs
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Explain exactly Why I "Can't" go sailing once again ? - 10/15/13 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by mbounds
They don't get to have their cake and eat it, too - they have to repay their unemployment if they get back pay.


How do you audit that?


Duh, the honor system... geeesh.


They have a way of finding out... My brother collected unemployment for a week when he started a new job and the benefits were in place. It was a glitch in their system as they ran the benefits to the end of the period not his new job start date which he informed them of. He thought this was the norm and didn't put much to it..

Needles to say they came to him a year later and wanted the money back for the extra week...


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