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36th America's Cup

Posted By: Tony_F18

36th America's Cup - 09/11/17 09:19 AM

Looks like multihulls are out for the next cup, plan is apparantly to go with foiling monohulls:
Team New Zealand confirm 36th America's Cup to be raced in foiling monohulls


Quote
Team New Zealand have confirmed reports that the America's Cup is heading back to monohulls.

Luna Rossa boss Patrizio Bertelli, the Italian Challenger of Record, broke news of the move away from catamarans in an interview with La Stampa on Monday (NZT).

Bertelli said the return to monohulls, albeit radical foiling ones, was a condition of Luna Rossa helping Team New Zealand win the last America's Cup in Bermuda.
Posted By: P.M.

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/11/17 11:49 AM

More here
Posted By: brucat

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/11/17 09:27 PM

Yuck...

Mike
Posted By: Jake

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/12/17 12:02 AM

I can identify with one aspect of what they're trying to do. The grinders and the x-box controllers did bother me a little bit. I do like seeing the guys wind and grind winches and make lots of timed physical maneuvers to sail the boats. Bicycles on the deck always seemed to strike a little touch of absurdity with me - it's a marriage of two different unrelated sports and those guys legitimately have nothing to do with executing the boat. I dunno. Not a fan of the monohull, obviously...it seems like a pretty big step backwards. The only reason the Volvo uses them is that it will easily self right (which is important going where these guys go) but strapping a hunk of lead to something you are trying to get up out of the water onto a foil seems sillier than bicycles on a sailboat.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/12/17 07:07 AM

The irony is that a foiling monohull would require even more grinders unless they figure out a way to do it without a (lead) swinging keel..
Alternative would be some sort of skiff with huge racks and lots of crew/railmeat.
Can you really call the VOR setup a foiler though? Isn't that more of a skimmer? smile
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/12/17 12:12 PM

Could you imagine if this was a 50ft mono?
That would be something I'd watch laugh
https://www.instagram.com/p/BY8KggwDyp7/
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/13/17 02:27 AM

good point about more grinders... How will they charge the canting keel hydraulics? Foil controls ? Will they use "cyclors" as well?

Did they NOT like the flips and collisions on the multihulls? I mean aside from Bart's tragic death, those incidents probably drew a lot of eyeballs.
Posted By: brucat

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/13/17 02:18 PM

Believe half of what you hear, right?

The Italians are being "credited" with the decision, but as we all know, CoRs are selected by the defender well in advance, and undoubtedly, after reaching at least some level of agreement.

Of course, all you need to do is re-watch the presser with Dalton after they won, his words and especially expression screamed "Not over my dead body, I hate cats."

They obviously aren't convinced that cats add enough excitement to add enough fans to offset what they believe is lost by moving away from "tradition." Don't forget, they also paid dearly for everyone's excitement when they capsized.

I think that they're kidding themselves (or lying to the world) about ever lowering the cost or headcount (although, Dalton did call that out as a false goal in said presser). I also wonder how their foiling sloop, which is supposed to be as fast as a foiling cat (unlikely in light air), will solve the problem of boat separation that the match racing purists abhor...

Mike
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/13/17 08:00 PM

From Latitude 38:

September 13, 2017 – Auckland, New Zealand

Monohulls. Foiling monohulls.

At least that's the news we heard from Radio New Zealand, who on Tuesday wrote, "The next edition of America's Cup racing will switch from catamarans to high-performance monohull yachts, defending champions Team New Zealand have confirmed.

"And while the boats will be monohulls, they will also be foiling boats — lifting off the water like the catamarans did," RNZ reported.

Both RNZ and Scuttlebutt reported that Patrizio Bertelli — the head of Luna Rossa, the Challenger of Record — said in an interview with an Italian newspaper that his support for Emirates Team New Zealand's 2017 bid in Bermuda hinged on the Kiwis going back to monohulls, should they win. "It was the condition for us to help them with men and means in the last edition," Bertelli was quoted as saying.

For all the debate and speculation at the immediate conclusion of the Match about what type of boats would race in the next Cup, it appears that monohulls were in the cards long before they were dealt.

The exact date of the next Match seems to be up in the air, but the Kiwis said they're "considering the possibility" of holding the 36th Cup in Auckland in summer 2021. What has been clear since ETNZ's 'mini announcement' in July is that there will be a "'constructed in country' requirement for competing yachts and a nationality requirement for competing crew members."

RNZ said that more details would be coming later this month, but reported that ETNZ said they have been discussing design protocols with would-be challengers. "There is an overall desire to have a spectacular monohull yacht that will be exciting to match race, but also one that the public and sailors can relate to as a sailboat that really challenges a full crew of professional yachtsmen around the race track," Team New Zealand said in a statement, referring to the machine-like feel of the catamarans, which required pumping hydraulic oil as much as they did sailing.

After winning in Bermuda this summer, ETNZ CEO Grant Dalton said, "The sport needs stability," and RNZ reported that Dalton said he wants entry to the Cup to "be more affordable, and for rules to be less slanted in favor of the defenders."

While all this early conjecture is interesting, we're still waiting for a few rounds of lawsuits — and we'll believe our eyes when we actually see the new America's Cup Class ripping across the Hauraki Gulf in Auckland. We can only hope that the new Cup format will be good for the sport of sailing.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/14/17 04:18 PM

I disagree with some of those spectator opinions that match racing wasn't evident in the last AC semi- and finals. Seems quite a few races were nail-biters for me to watch.

So what if the separation was several hundred meters vs. a boat-length. At those speeds, the lead changed up to 5-6 times during the race. How is that different than a match race at 5 knots?

Doing 30 knots is much more thrilling, even if the video (and team professionalism) made it look like a gentle light-air sail....
Posted By: brucat

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/14/17 05:14 PM

Such a bunch of self-contradictory nonsense. "The event needs stability." OK, let's turn the existing plan on its head and change boats yet again... Oh, and "affordability" is back in the conversation. Nice...

Mike
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/14/17 10:07 PM

Also amusing to hear Dalton say how the rules heavily favoured the defender while Oracle got pretty much destroyed on every race. grin
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/15/17 11:53 AM

Quote
Sir Russell Coutts has indicated that Oracle Team USA boss Larry Ellison won't be contesting the next America's Cup, in Auckland.

Oracle Team USA won't be at America's Cup in Auckland - report
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/16/17 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Quote
Sir Russell Coutts has indicated that Oracle Team USA boss Larry Ellison won't be contesting the next America's Cup, in Auckland.

Oracle Team USA won't be at America's Cup in Auckland - report

Any guesses on who will represent the US?
Posted By: P.M.

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/28/17 09:59 PM


36th Protocol
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/29/17 09:09 AM

AC36: Protocol (Notice of Race) has just been announced in Auckland at RNZYS; it's Back to the Future
https://www.sailingillustrated.com/...Auckland-at-RNZYS-its-Back-to-the-Future
Posted By: Mn3Again

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/29/17 02:15 PM

And only 2 million entrance fee (unless late then 3mil)

1 million USD at the moment of the acceptance of the challenge + 1 million USD to be
paid no later than 30th of November 2018. The latter can be paid in four instalments;
• Late entries: 1 million USD penalty;
• Performance bond: 1 million USD
• America’s Cup World Series: 300,000 USD per each event;
• AC Christmas Regatta: no entry fee will be due.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/29/17 07:03 PM

I wonder if the spectacle of flying boats in the 35th AC will draw some interested viewers over to the C-class cat scene?
Posted By: brucat

Re: 36th America's Cup - 09/30/17 12:59 AM

Apparently, the Prada vs. Louis Vuitton thing is more real than I'd previously imagined. I thought people were reading into it too much when ETNZ threw the LV bags into the crowd. I honestly thought they were literally giving back to their fans, now it appears that they were just being classless.

Burling really screwed the pooch with that pitchpole. No more reaching starts (which make less sense on monohulls anyways)...

Mike
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/02/17 07:14 PM

I'm sure I'll be watching this iteration of the AC, and there will be plenty of topics to argue about smile

I wonder if they will keep the race elapsed time under 1 hour?
Posted By: Jake

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/05/17 05:14 PM

So New York Yacht Club just threw down the gauntlet. Terry Hutchinson as CEO/Skipper, led (financially?) by John J. “Hap” Fauth and Doug DeVos of Grand Rapids, Michigan. DeVos is president of Amway and the brother-in-law of U.S. Education Secretary Betsy DeVos

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...2eed02_story.html?utm_term=.e90f4e8c7e56
Posted By: P.M.

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/05/17 07:29 PM

more here
Posted By: brucat

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/06/17 12:27 AM

I'm a little torn by this. Of course, I have to root for the home team (anything that would bring the Cup back to Newport would be awesome), but I highly doubt that NYYC would ever return to cats.

Mike
Posted By: Jake

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/06/17 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by brucat
I'm a little torn by this. Of course, I have to root for the home team (anything that would bring the Cup back to Newport would be awesome), but I highly doubt that NYYC would ever return to cats.

Mike


I don't think there are many players in the America's Cup that would.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/07/17 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by brucat
I'm a little torn by this. Of course, I have to root for the home team (anything that would bring the Cup back to Newport would be awesome), but I highly doubt that NYYC would ever return to cats.

Mike

Larry and Dennis are the only ones who made the jump.
Posted By: brucat

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/07/17 03:48 AM

I know. And of the two, only Larry made it stick.

Mike
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/08/17 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by brucat
I know. And of the two, only Larry made it stick.

Mike

It'll be interesting to see what Larry does with the boats. The DOG tri is currently on display in front of Larry Land in San Carlos. The 72's and 45's are probably warehoused somewhere along the San Francisco waterfront.

If he installed electric hydraulic pumps he could make a killing selling rides on the bay out of Pier 39.
Posted By: brucat

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/09/17 01:57 AM

Larry won't be the first to let them wallow, if that's what he decides to do. My sense is that other than the 12 Meters still sailing in Newport, there are very few America's Cup yachts that ever see the water again, and fewer still that make museum status.

Mike
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/09/17 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by brucat
Larry won't be the first to let them wallow, if that's what he decides to do. My sense is that other than the 12 Meters still sailing in Newport, there are very few America's Cup yachts that ever see the water again, and fewer still that make museum status.

Mike


Or, they are just left in the nearest parking lot like Alinghi's AC33's Dogzilla cat.
Pretty unbelievable that they allowed them to just leave it there, I think the city even paid for it! laugh

https://www.google.nl/maps/@39.457903,-0.3162259,56m/data=!3m1!1e3
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/09/17 08:58 AM

This would be a cool foiling monohull concept at 75ft:
[Linked Image]
Posted By: brucat

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/09/17 01:22 PM

I really, really hope that's sarcasm, Tony...

Mike
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/09/17 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616


If he installed electric hydraulic pumps he could make a killing selling rides on the bay out of Pier 39.


I would totally want a ride. Not sure how durable they are, but you're right. I'm sure there would be a handful of interested folk
Posted By: Jake

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/09/17 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Tony_F18
This would be a cool foiling monohull concept at 75ft:
[Linked Image]


I think it would be. Honestly, invert the main lifting elements and have them come out the side and you have something pretty close to the recent Vendee Globe boats. Except the Vendee Globe boats were intended to heal and then get lift but not fully foil. That pictured (old is new again!) concept leaves the boat more upright and provides a wider more stable foiling platform in comparison so it would probably course race a little better than a Vendee Globe boat. Conceptually, the hull could be more needle-like and the outer structure of the foils system could host some minor buoyancy detail that would help the boat remain upright when at a stand still....kinda like a monohull being a trimaran at exceptionally low speeds. More stable than a Moth (when not significantly moving) but with similar ingrained stability provided by the 'L'/(canted)'V' shapes that were derived in the catamaran America's Cups.

Honestly, I think we'll see the lines between monohull/multihull really blurred with the next development steps of foiling as the foils become more and more efficient. In 10 years, we'll probably look at boats classifications more as one of three classifications instead of two - monohull/multihull/foiler. Foiler designs right now are a lot of different boat classifications applying foils in more and more similar ways....they'll eventually converge into a single fast and stable layout, IMO, and become unified as one thing when the designs converge on a stable and operationally convenient configuration. The design task looks complicated because of all of the variations out there right now - but it's not. You need stability at low and high speeds while reducing the appendages in the water so your drag is low at high speed. A three point foiling system (Helllllooooo Hobie Trifoiler) makes sense here with a low speed "landing gear" to keep the boat stable when the foils can't do it.

You can also draw some really distinct parallels to aeronautical design in it's infancy...lots of really weird configurations before the bi-planes (catamarans) got it working and became the semi-standard for a short while. Other things flew but they were very complex. As wing shapes, drive system efficiency, and manufacturing technology matured, the biplane designs evolved into a single wing three lifting point configuration that became the universal standard in all but the most extreme cases.

So my bottom line, while we may get all emotional about multi-hull / monohull, in a short time, this foiling thing won't really be either one of them anymore (and I can have my a-cat class back).
Posted By: P.M.

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/09/17 03:40 PM

Artemis AC36 Protocol Statement

First two sentences speaks volumes . . .
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/09/17 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by brucat
Larry won't be the first to let them wallow, if that's what he decides to do. My sense is that other than the 12 Meters still sailing in Newport, there are very few America's Cup yachts that ever see the water again, and fewer still that make museum status.

Mike

I saw two AC boats in Cabo being used for tourist rides.

Dennis lost one of his two cats to bankruptcy. One ended up on a lake in Mexico.
Posted By: Jake

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/09/17 10:26 PM

[quote=P.M.]Artemis AC36 Protocol Statement

I would expect any seasoned America's Cup team to issue something similar whether or not they actually felt that way. The entire event is one massive negotiation and leverage has to be established anywhere you can. In other words, Artemis would like to participate but "lets make sure we have a seat at the boat rule design table by dangling our participation decision". Or, possibly, they don't trust the defender to not bend rules in their favor so they want to try and leverage a chance to see as much under the hood of the design rule as possible.

That said, I imagine there is a significant vein of sailors that do actually feel that way about keeping the America's Cup about high performance/high speed and on the real cutting edge of sailing. It seriously has had a gigantic affect on foiling sailboats in the last decade.

Posted By: Jake

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/19/17 12:46 AM

The plot thickens.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other...-series-of-sailing-to-rival-americas-cup
Posted By: Mn3Again

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/20/17 12:36 PM

could be good for the sport
Posted By: brucat

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/20/17 01:04 PM

What's thickening? Any event is good for the sport, I suppose, but how does this move anything forward?

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but it's not going to rival the America's Cup, and will be lucky to stand out from Match Race World Series, Formula 40 series, etc.

Larry tried with the ACWS, but Joe Sixpack still doesn't care about watching sailing. I don't see how this will change that simple fact.

Mike
Posted By: Mn3Again

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/20/17 03:20 PM

more press with cool boats
may peek more littleones to want to sail
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/21/17 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Mn3Again
more press with cool boats
may peek more littleones to want to sail


Especially if the AC goes back to monos. Even foiling monos are boring compared to catamarans. Of course, I'm biased.
Posted By: garda

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/27/17 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by Mn3Again
more press with cool boats
may peek more littleones to want to sail


But we've had more "cool boats" over the last few years than ever before, and very, very few people are buying them. The Moths have led the way, and they got only 14 boats to the last US titles - well down on recent years once again. In the biggest Australian states the Moth state titles got just 14 boats (fewer than before foils) and there's only two active boats in the second-biggest state. The class reports that in the two biggest countries numbers are static or falling and in other nations there's only 40 or so boats or more.

The foiling cats are attracting very few buyers considering the size of the sport. Kitefoilers seem to be quicker than foiling cats or Moths, but the fleets appear to be small, especially among the kids.

Meanwhile medium or slow hiking singlehanded monos are doing well, slow kids boats are doing really well, and the ocean races like the Fastnet that concentrate on normal monos like Beneteaus and J Boats are doing well.

In the wider market we are seeing surveys, studies and press reports that say that the young adults these days don't normally want high-tech high-speed, they want simplicity and economy, which is why they are almost all ignoring foilers but hundreds of thousands of them are buying slow SUPs.

If press and cool boats was going to pique interest, it would have done so by now. It hasn't. Let's learn from that and move on.
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/27/17 12:20 PM

I craved going out on my old crusty 5.2 each time I watched those foiling 72-footers. It's not about getting them out to buy foiling boats, it's about getting them off the iPads and Gameboys and on the water in a boat that doesn't require a trip to the gas station.
Posted By: Timbo

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/28/17 10:09 AM

I'll bet it's more about the price and the learning curve to get foiling that is keeping kids on SUP's and Lasers.
Posted By: garda

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/30/17 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by Redtwin
I craved going out on my old crusty 5.2 each time I watched those foiling 72-footers. It's not about getting them out to buy foiling boats, it's about getting them off the iPads and Gameboys and on the water in a boat that doesn't require a trip to the gas station.


Yes, but it's not working, and for understandable reasons. iPads and Gameboys are designed with an interesting eye on the psychology of reinforcement and other insights into what makes people want to play. They offer an easy entry level and lots of other levels to conquer and get a feeling of accomplishment. The games can require a lot of commitment, but it's commitment to playing and with lots of rewards along the way, not commitment to earning $25,000 to buy a boat, two hours to rig it, a few hours of maintenance, and a lot of frustration and fear while learning to sail at high speeds.

There have been two major studies involving professional surveys asking people why they don't sail. It's because they feel it's scary, complicated and elitist, not because they feel its boring. Watching boats that even the pros call scary and complicated is not going to attract many people.
Posted By: garda

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/30/17 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by Timbo
I'll bet it's more about the price and the learning curve to get foiling that is keeping kids on SUP's and Lasers.


Yep, and of course practicality and the fact that most people just don't care less about pure ultimate speed. If we did, none of us would be sailing cats - we'd all be on kiteboards and kitefoilers.

A Laser is also just a great boat to sail in a lot of ways. Instead of standing on a hull several feet above water and with your head about 14 feet from where the hull is slicing through, you're often inside a stream of spray and when you're hiking flat your head is about two feet above the water. In strong winds, they are an incredibly intense boat to sail well; you're bouncing the whole boat through the waves upwind while heading up and down over each bit of chop, and downwind you're using heel to steer the boat down the waves, carving turns of 30 degrees or more as you go from just above square to well by the lee, right on the knife edge of rolling in with a thud. And when you get in, the boat is unrigged in 10 minutes.

The big cats are also great fun, which is why I also sail them, but it's very different; more like riding a runaway rocket through the air than riding a bucking bronco which is what a Laser is like. And it all feeds back into the reason why mono racers did not turn onto cats when they saw them in the AC. It's not that they are anti-cat or old-fashioned, they just like different things just like some people like fine scotch and some like fine wine.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/30/17 03:42 AM

Excellent Points about the actual market in 2017.

Keep in mind that besides boat sales..... you were highlighting NA turnouts.... IE competition.

IMO... all of the technology development is serving to undermine competition. How?
Its about the pecking order.... In any class... the trophies are going to go to the elite racers. So why would the next 80 sailors go.... My answer is that its about the competition.... that is the essential fun factor, that keeps you coming back. Competent sailors enjoying Corinthian competition. NOBODY travels to participate. (I am not considering rec sailors who take the family on the water to just sail as a pastime)

When the game tilts to equipment innovation... Or , have you invested enough time to become competent in say foiling... The fun factor in competing is missing. If you are still working on foiling your moth.... you are not spending the cash and time to travel and participate.. You will find a way to travel and spend the money if the game is about competing.

Prime example .. A class. the A Class is a development class. They managed wave after wave of technology changes... until Foiling. Cats versus dogs at that point.. The expectation was that floater would be gone from world competition within a year or two and flying would quickly trickle down to the local level. But ... the sailors did not behave as the past. Flying was a totally different thing.... So... the reality was... nope... still lots of floating boats on the water.

So they finally did the right thing and create two divisions within the class.... They are FINALLY back to recognizing the integrity of the competition with championships in the two divisions.

Creating the conditions for competition though out the fleet is a magical thing and often overlooked.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/30/17 04:33 PM

Very good read on the market as a whole.

The A-Cat fleet in the U.S led that one Mark, and has had trophies for both fleets with one starting line for the last 2 years or more. They also have the highest turnout going of any beach cat or high performance boat in the U.S at the moment (probably ignoring the Scow's and the J/70's, but the latter isn't particularly high performing). 43 boats are registered for the Woods Brothers Regatta next month in Atlanta.

A lot of average sailors find the foiler scary, I have found the same thing at times as the speeds are vastly higher than what we are used to with the floaters. The difference is the elite sailors enjoy the challenge, there is a spot for the mid level sailor in the floater fleet to earn a trophy, and the back of the foiler fleet is loving the learning curve. Foiling A's are also cheaper and less technical than moths. Really the only additional thing beyond a floater is the rake control system. This also makes the boats simpler than anything else out there that flies, or for that matter doesn't, for the speed you get. Foil kiteboarding is a riot but you need a strong core and have a high overall skillset.
Posted By: Timbo

Re: 36th America's Cup - 10/31/17 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by garda
Originally Posted by Redtwin
I craved going out on my old crusty 5.2 each time I watched those foiling 72-footers. It's not about getting them out to buy foiling boats, it's about getting them off the iPads and Gameboys and on the water in a boat that doesn't require a trip to the gas station.


Yes, but it's not working, and for understandable reasons. iPads and Gameboys are designed with an interesting eye on the psychology of reinforcement and other insights into what makes people want to play. They offer an easy entry level and lots of other levels to conquer and get a feeling of accomplishment. The games can require a lot of commitment, but it's commitment to playing and with lots of rewards along the way, not commitment to earning $25,000 to buy a boat, two hours to rig it, a few hours of maintenance, and a lot of frustration and fear while learning to sail at high speeds.

There have been two major studies involving professional surveys asking people why they don't sail. It's because they feel it's scary, complicated and elitist, not because they feel its boring. Watching boats that even the pros call scary and complicated is not going to attract many people.



Yup, like most things, it comes down to Time and Money.

The Gameboy/iPad/video games don't need a car and a trailer to get to a competition, and the kids can play indoors no matter what the weather, or even if it's dark outside. I have seen many newbies (adults, not kids) show up at regattas, get their butts kicked, and never return. I actually overheard one wife asking her husband, "We bought all the right stuff, why aren't we winning races?". The learning curve is much steeper to be successful racing a cat than even a mono, and now add the extra learning and costs required to foil, it's the main reason I'm not foiling, no time to learn, no money to buy one.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: 36th America's Cup - 11/01/17 09:03 PM

The other point about electronic games is that there is no real "peril" of failure. Just reset and keep going.

In all other sports/activities I can think of, "fail" may include any number of the following:
- injury
- damage
- despair
- humiliation
- increased effort to improve
- delayed gratification

All harder things to surmount vs. just clicking a few buttons.

Which builds character? Which gives greater satisfaction when achieved? Which forms lifelong lessons and wisdom?

But how do you SELL those factors?
Posted By: Jake

Re: 36th America's Cup - 11/20/17 07:57 PM

three point foiling configuration

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11946082

It doesn't look inherently able to self right (more like a giant skiff) - I'm interested in how they will carry that out.

I'm also interested in how the rules are going to manage the foil positions in close quarters like at the start. Those things are out there and just asking to be shoved into another boat's cockpit....or, at the very least, they protrude a great deal beyond the beam of the boat underwater and could be really hard to see in anything but clear water. It's going to be hard to keep these boats from "locking horns".
Posted By: P.M.

Re: 36th America's Cup - 11/20/17 10:02 PM

The windward foil is going to kill somebody. The design is a disaster for trickle down fleet racing. Any appendages outside of the hull beam is just wrong for sailing. This will give new meaning to the hook during the dialup. Bertelli and Dalton have their heads up their a sses.

Here is the video.



Posted By: Jake

Re: 36th America's Cup - 11/20/17 11:13 PM

counter point - they honestly look like an iceboat. They survive fleet racing at significantly higher speeds - I guess these will too....of course, though, their skates aren't at ear level.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: 36th America's Cup - 11/21/17 05:06 PM

in moderate air can I send all the crew out to the windward foil like the Bahamians on their hiking boards?

If the self-righting thing is correct, then those foils must have some ballast associated with them...? And how do you move those foils when the boat's on its side? Someone has to crawl up and start cranking?

They probably should make those foils connect so that perhaps you can slide in/out along the foil (windward one moves to beam, leeward one extends out/down) along some sort of (enclosed) channel within the hull...

I think someone in the VOR or TJV had a foil setup like that although it had some issues if I recall...
Posted By: P.M.

Re: 36th America's Cup - 11/21/17 05:52 PM

“The foil management will largely be done with battery power."

that crew talk didn't last long . . .
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: 36th America's Cup - 11/21/17 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by P.M.
“The foil management will largely be done with battery power."

that crew talk didn't last long . . .



So, are they cranking magnetos/generators instead of winches? Or do they have to plug the boats in after every race?
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: 36th America's Cup - 11/21/17 06:10 PM

leave the foils down and make the dang thing a trimaran...
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