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Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system

Posted By: brobru

Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/09/03 04:46 PM

Hello Cat Sailors,
Looking for your input;

Task; Develope Hi wind ( 15-25 mph) spinnaker system

boat; Inter 17 euro and Hobie FX-1

Goal; contolled, 1 person, spinnaker sail and deployment system in 15-25 mph

Harper and I have sailed the Uni for almost 2 years in Trade Winds, year round, down here in St. Croix. We have decided to take the next step to be spin boats.

The whole aspect is , 1 person and controlable in this wind range.

Roller furling appears to have an edge, unless someone out there has a good configuration.

A smaller chute, with sail area low,..may be the ticket.

Ideas,...comments,...brain storms?.......

..we believe it can be done..

regards,

Bruce
I-17 Euro
St. Croix
US Virgin Islands [color:"white"] [/color]
Posted By: Flying_Frog

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/10/03 07:32 AM

I'm not too sure what your question is, but I sail an Inter 17R with spinaker.

my 17 page

I have a nice setup that uses 'jib' cleats on the front beam to hold my spinnaker. This setup allows me to easily pull in the spinnaker one-handed.

When it's 13+ knots, it pays to trapeze and go for speed. This setup makes it possible for me to go out on the trapeze under spinnaker. You wouldn't believe the feeling you will get, the boat sits down and starts to 'skim' the water, nerver ever wanting to dig in. My foot straps help a lot to give me some balance, I use my toes to keep me on the back. My 'jesus lines' also keeps me glued to the back. Even while digging in, I stay at the back, and wait for the boat to pull out, and go forward again.

i'd like to say how easy the 17R is in handling extreme weather. We sail on the St-Lawrence river, but it can still become quite an handfull in strong 15-20+ winds and small/steep waves from the wind and tides combined effect.

Remember to raise those boards, it's a 17 with the same boards than 18's and 20's....do the math

I hope this helped.

Phil Mascolo
Inter 17R #135

Catamaran Quebec web site

Attached picture 23179-DSCF0062.JPG
Posted By: john p

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/10/03 12:28 PM

Bruce

I think that you have two ways forward here, roller furling, as you say, or a snuffer system.

Roller furling will be easier than the current snuffer systems since to douse the spin into a snuffer will require loosing the tiller, allbeit only for a few seconds. No problem in 15 mph, but more dificult in 25. The downside with roller furling is that I think you'll take a big hit on upwind performance.

The very best way would be a snuffer system that can be operated 1 handed, for this you need a pump up and pump down system. Complicated, but you could hide the stuff under the tramp, and it would be quick, easy and only require one hand to get the kite up and down. If your looking to develope the best I'd go this route.

15-17.5 sq m should be the right kind of size, but I wouldn't recommend any cleats on the sheets, just make sure the ratchets have plenty of wrap.
Posted By: brobru

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/10/03 01:37 PM

Phil,

Thanks for the reply,......since you know the scene when the wind gets too wild for your spinnaker,......it is at this point, that we sail 80% of the year..


...so, with your experiance, what would you design differently for you to keep sailing the spinnaker in steady 20 mph +/- 5 plus gusts??

Bruce
Posted By: brobru

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/10/03 01:45 PM

John,

...one handed pump up - pump down,.....

,,tell me about this system,.....I know nothing about it

........sounds like it might be a good choice....



Bruce
Posted By: sail6000

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/10/03 03:52 PM


Hi Bruce

Wow great responces ,-John is correct ,{as usual } on the furler -snuffer choise ,-John,s the designer of the Stealth series of excellent cat designs .
Phils great 17 site was fun to review ,-{great sence of humor too } liked the Jesus line ,though have never heard it called that before ,-other names are chicken line or anti round the bridle wire line or safety line ,-these are an absolute necessity at those speeds in seas .
I like the type that runs from the front crossbeam to the stern with shockcord retrival line into the crossbeam .
This type of line along the entire length of the deck edge ith adjustable climbers knots to change OR slide lead locations where they are needed and the addition of a loop and ball attachment--line to harness-- /easy detachment is the best setup -
Many past Worrell and Tybee 500 racing teams use this type of set up for the high winds and seas encountered .
Can.t tell you how many times it's saved me from a severe pitchpole and another sailing related {religious experience }

For the snuffer as John noted some type of simple mechanical assist for the spin halyard for setting and snuffing . Some should experiement and try a small light high speed winch type system also .

The only other option I could think of is a more radical design development of the spin -rig set up ,and spin system basically consisting of a horizontal furling system. --much like is used for battened mainsails ,--collective {what the h}-
Its not practical yet but would involve furling the smaller flatter spin from the bottom foot . A furler set at the end of the pole set horizontally towards the foot rather than vertically up the luff . This would require a battened type designed spin with a batten on the foot to furl on . Some sailmakers have experimented with this type of sail but found it not as versital in light air ,--but as a high speed sail it may work very well .
-Furler leads are needed ,swivels on the furler and sheet line leads , gybes would have to be round the front -luff rather than between the luff and forestay s .
In experimenting with this suggest raking the mast as far back as possible and using a longer spin pole length ,-
The more luff angle the more potential verticle lift the headsail will provide .--Check out the Aussie 18 skiffs as example ,--

The foot would of course have to be shorter than the distance from the tack to blocks and the battened smaller flatter headsail would roll down but still need to be hoisted .

The advantages of a battened headsail or one with a battened foot over the current asymetric spin that have been developed extensively would have to be experimented -refined and developed to be practical .
Fun exercize to go through the possible design scenarios ,-hope its helpfull.

Carl
Posted By: Mary

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/10/03 04:13 PM

John,
Has anybody actually figured out the difference in windage between a roller-furled headsail and those big snuffer snouts? And has anybody factored the pros/cons of weight low (snuffer) and weight high (roller-furling)? And also the problem with snuffers stuffing into waves?
Posted By: Jake

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/10/03 04:18 PM

I call mine the anti-Tarzaning unit. It's one of your better units.

AaaooooooAAAAeeeeeAAAAAAAA!!!!
Posted By: john p

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/10/03 04:18 PM

Bruce

On reflection I think having a pump up and a pump down system would be too complicated.

I think you could manage an ordinary halyard for the hoist, run it so that the tack line is automatiaclly pulled out at the same time though, then use a pump system for dousing.

The pump system, basically works like ratchet, handbrake on a car is a good example. I'll try and explain it:

imagine that your spinnaker retrieval line is attached to a great big shockcord, about 10m long and when the spinaker is down this is stretched to its limit, now put a block just behind the halyard cleat so that the halyard goes into the cleat automatically, put a floating block on the halyard just behind this with a trapeze handle attached to it,now attach another block about 2 ft behind the first one, and then attach a cleat (cleat 2) behind this.

When you grab the floating block and pull it sideways it will pull the sail down, when you move the block back the tail gets pulled through cleat 2 by the elastic, another pull brings in more spinnaker and so on.

Hope this makes sense, if your interested we could sort it all out for you.

Posted By: john p

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/10/03 05:05 PM

Mary

Dunno exactly what the fifference is but I'm sure that its quite a lot, the snuffers may be quite big, but the area presented to the wind is not, remember upwind its on the nose, also its low down where the wind is least whereas the furled one goes way up the mast in the stronger breeze, + Unless the luff is very tight, it'll flap, then you've got the weight.

Look at the Tornado's, and how they do it, they won't be very wrong. As to stuffing into waves, Ive never had it happen, allthough I think it could happen into breaking surf
Posted By: Mary

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/10/03 05:17 PM

John,
I am aware that people believe-think-assume that about the windage, but I just wondered if it had ever been tested, like a wind tunnel.
Posted By: Flying_Frog

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/10/03 06:06 PM

Always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS keep your spin. You gain speed, and speed prevents pitchpoling. It's not the spin that mkaes your bows dig, it's the mainsail. It's far more dangerous 'digging wise' to only wear the main.

As for the snuffer system, I can't think of a better design than my Nacra setup. The same halyard raises and lowers your spin, It can't get any simpler. Tha good thing about front snuffers is that you can snuff it while going at the same spin course heading, and you can even head into wind and still drop the kite. NEVER EVER drop your front snuffer spin downwind, NEVER ! Or else you will 'run over' your sheets(word?)/lines and they will wrap around your bows, NOT nice.

And for those 'no,no tststtt cleats on a spin....', I consider them my crew. It gives me 2 more hands to work for me. Just try to sheet in a spin one handed while holding the stick...or getting back from the trapeze. I really don't see the difference between jib cleats and spin cleats while going downwind, my Prindle 16 was a pitchpoling bit*h because of the jib so...I handle the 2 in a similar way: sheet in, head up, get speed, head down, sheet out, rince, repeat...

My only problem with a spinnaker up in good winds is when the waves are short, and break into my REAR crossbeam, thus rocking my bows down...it makes some fun, albeit un comfortable, RODEO RUN !
Posted By: brobru

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/10/03 11:49 PM


Carl,

This is how great innovation occurs,......in the past it was on the beach after ( during) a race,....now we can develope stuff in each others living rooms,..world wide!

Tell us more about the horizontal spinnaker, ( Aussie 18) set up,....do you ( or anyone) have a link to a picture?

Again, the topic is hi speed and safe,......and the 2 parts needed ( amoungst others) are;

a) deployment and retriveal

b) sail design and size


....thanks for the info so far.......



Bruce
St. Croix
Posted By: brobru

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/10/03 11:55 PM

Mary,

We need you ( and Rick) to jump into this design discussion,...since we know he sails a roller furler headsail T 4.9.


...at what point does his T 4.9 with spin up reach the 'unsafe limit'?


....since he has sailed most spin deployment systems,...considering the project at hand ( Uni rig, 1 person, hi wind) ...what does he ( and you) observe?

thanks

Bruce
Posted By: brobru

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/11/03 12:03 AM

John,

Tell me ( us) more,...sounds like a good thing,....is there a diagram,....a picture( you know, worth a thousand words..),.......

..again,..this project is for a 1 person , Uni in big winds (...as you well know,..big winds mean big waves too..)

...thanks for the input so far..

Bruce
St. Croix
Posted By: brobru

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/11/03 12:12 AM

Phill

How about a little primary scourse evidence,...described what happened to the I-17R fleet in last years Performance Race Week in Michigan,......you mentioned you ran the race.

I remember Masts broken, spins blown,...a scene of general survival.....

Looking back,....when the big winds came,...and the spins were up,.....what did you experiance that took the stock I17R w spin 'over the limit'?

What would you do 'now',........sail size?.....equipment change?

..thanks for your help so far..

Bruce
St. Croix
Posted By: RickWhite

I don't go out in that kind of wind - 08/11/03 03:28 PM

Hi Bruce,
If it is blowing 25 I won't leave the beach.
However, I have been caught out in big blows during distance races and have managed to carry the Hooter. In order to do so safely I eased the traveler out more, did not heat up at all and sailed the rig deeper.
After that and the boat is still threatening, I furl the sail and stop holding my breath.

Good luck,
Rick
Posted By: Mary

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/11/03 03:54 PM

Bruce,
As an indirect look at your situation, here is an excerpt from Roy Seaman's chapter about Distance Racing in our book "Catamaran Racing for the 90's."

Quote
We asked Roy Seaman why he likes long distance races. We were expecting an answer about the challenge of doing battle against the elements and the sea, man against nature, one on one.
Instead, he said, "It's a good way to get a lot of sailing in. Think about it -- in the Worrell you went a thousand miles in 10 days."
We thought about it, and it did not really seem to answer the question. So we asked, "But WHY would you want to get that much sailing in?"
Then came the real answer: the search for speed. He said, "Even in a thousand miles, you're lucky to get one good day or even one good hour when you really get a great speed run. It's a very rare thing, and it is very difficult to get when you go out daysailing on a weekend.
"What makes it possible to achieve this kind of ultimate speed on a long-distance race is when you start downwind in the morning (in light air) with a big chute up, and then it starts blowing harder and harder and harder until you really fly. You get to sail with your chute in winds you would never normally be able to do, because if you started out in winds like that, you would never be able to even get the spinnaker out of the bag. But when it's already up, you just keep going faster and faster and fly it all day."


So, in other words, what Roy is saying is that it is hard and scary to put up a spinnaker in a lot of wind. And Rick tells me that if he were out in 25-knot winds, he would not unfurl his hooter. And what you are saying is that you want a headsail that you are actually able to deploy when it is already blowing that hard.

Have you thought about a kite? This is a good website: www.kiteship.com. They show them being used with small cats, and the kites come in all different sizes.
Posted By: Acat230

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/11/03 04:17 PM

Simple - get an A-cat, less fuss, less time rigging, less things to break, and (in my experience) as fast.
Posted By: john p

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/11/03 06:25 PM

Bruce

This link takes you to the web-page on our site that deals with snuffers.


www.geocities.com/stealthmarine2002/snuffer


I have no pictures of the pump system, as we havn't put it on a boat yet, but basically you would end up with two cleat/block assemblies that take the spare line into the beam, you would end uo with two lines on the boat. One to pull the kite up, and one to pump it down again.

As I said before, given the high wind usage I would recommend a 15 sq m spinnaker. I would not advise cleats for the sheet as I feel sure that there will be times when the bow buries and you will need to dump the sheet immediately.

Auto ratchets will make for easyier gybing, and as I said, put a turning block in the sheet system so that you get a 180 degree wrap, and I'm sure the load will be light enough to manage with one hand.

Posted By: MauganN20

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/11/03 07:02 PM

and the A-cat breaks when you look at it hard enough.
Posted By: sail7seas

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/11/03 08:56 PM

yeah,
They said the same thing about the Tornado in the '70s.
I wonder how they worked out?
Posted By: brobru

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/12/03 01:46 AM

Mary and Rick,

Thanks for the input.

This is a great thing, the ability to discuss a project like this, in a Global forum......althought off the topic,..many thanks goes to you both for developing CATSAILOR.COM!....I am sure at some point folks told you the idea wouldn't work,....ha!

OK Rick,...I believe you about the 25 mph. So We will set that as the upper limit. What if you had a smaller spin,..low on the mast ( less fulcrum),..a suggestion of 15 sq. m...( about 50 sq. ft)......in your opinion,..would that be doable,....or still nutso?

Mary,
I smiled at the insert......I will forgo the 1000 mile thingy,...stick with the home beach here!

Thanks again Rick and Mary,

Regards,

Bruce
St. Croix
Posted By: brobru

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/12/03 01:51 AM

John,

Thanks for the interest.

If you can, why not lay out your 'pump down' idea on the floor and take a digital pic of it,...post it here or on your site...

...I still want to 'see' it.

regards,

Bruce

ps...make sure you copywrite(patent) it first :-)
Posted By: brobru

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/12/03 01:54 AM

MAry,

I draw the line at the kite thing........:-)

Bruce
Posted By: brobru

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/12/03 01:57 AM

John,

What are your ideas about sail shape?

How high ( or low) on the mast?

..or other thoughts...


Bruce
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/12/03 10:08 AM

Quote
Simple - get an A-cat, less fuss, less time rigging, less things to break, and (in my experience) as fast.


In my experience, a good cat with a kite will kill an A Class downwind..... I have proven it time and time again aginst World Champion A class sailors (and I am no world champion)

I would love to see and A Class with a kite.....she'd be a handfull but a hell of a wild ride ......

Picture this, on the wire with your aft foot on the rudder at the pivot point (like the Tornados)trapping about 35 degrees backward and pumping the bow out of the water (Don't forget your chicken/Jesus line)

This rocket ship should near on plane..... don't think anything would catch it in the light to moderate downwinds

Might have to be a future project
Posted By: john p

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/12/03 10:52 AM

Bruce

It's not my idea, dinghy sailors have been using them for years, I have never made one, only seen them on other boats, so I don't have one to show you.

As to size/shape 15 sq m is about 150sq ft, The best kite shape we have used is the one on our 18HT, I am really pleased with it, I would simply scale it down which would give you a hoist height of 7.1 m, which is about 23 ft 4ins.
Posted By: sparky

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/12/03 01:07 PM

Stephen,

What you describe is offered by Marstrom as the M-18!
Posted By: john p

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/12/03 01:25 PM

Bruce

I have tried to scan a sketch, but I'm not much good with computers, email me your fax number and I'll fax it to you, maybe you could put it on the forum
Posted By: Steve_Kwiksilver

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/12/03 03:45 PM

Hi Bruce, Just my 2c, as we sail 16ft cats called the Mosquito, essentially a scale-version of a Tornado, in Cape Town, South Africa.
Wind is often 15-18 knots, sometimes 20-25, sometimes 55-60, but then it`s raining as well so we don`t sail.
The boats we sail have 12,5sqm mainsail and a 13sqm jib, seems like the ideal ratio of main to spinn.(ie almost equal)
Problem with more modern cats is that the high-aspect ratio mainsail is great for light to medium wind (up to 18 knots), and then turns the boat into a pitchpole-machine after that. If you sail in high winds I`d reccommend a lower aspect rig, especially in short choppy conditions. A low-aspect ratio spinnaker with a reasonably full shoulder might help lift the bows, but will make close-reaching difficult. Also need to have a balanced rig. Long tall mainsail with short fat spinnaker might not do the trick.
Regarding roller-furling vs. snuffer : Ever had a jam on a roller-furling drum ? You`ll do 100 miles downwind before you can figure out how to get it sorted. Snuffer goes up & comes down in 2 sec. if running smooth, use mylar for the chute, slides really well.(single line tack & halyard.) Go deep for the hoist & retrieve, and you`ll swim less often.
I`ve found the kite holds the bows up in plenty wind, makes it safer than without. Just beware the nosedive in short chop, you sail so much faster than the waves that a wave hitting the back beam slows you enough to pitch the bow under. Bear off more, stay back & sheet IN (break the airflow on the kite depowers it, easing it will power it up !)
Sailing it is a process of cleating mainsail & traveller close to centreline & steering with one hand, the other 5 white knuckles on the spinn. sheet, out on the wire, just steer deeper when overpowered.
That`s all I know, and I still swim with it.

Cheers
Steve
Posted By: Arjan

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/12/03 04:27 PM

Hello,
I sail an A-Cat and I have installed a Guck snuffer and I am very satisfied with this system. As the A-Cat is very light and the Guck snufferbag, although half the size of the Nacra snuffer, is a little baggy you will lose some upwind capability due to windage. BUT you will win a lot on the downwind leg. Enough so you can keep up with the Inter 20 and the Tornado.
On an A-Cat there is limited use for a spinaker as the spi will lift the boat out of the water with a lot of wind. I will use the spi till about 3 Bft. It is very good to check if you have any heartproblems. I believe that 3 Bft. is about 10 knts. Correct me when I am wrong.
I have a 15 m2 spi, so not a very large spinaker. On my Taipan 4.9 I had an EO snuffer and the much longer snufferbag pushed me away much more than the shorter Guck system.
Regards.
Arjan de Bruin
A-Cat 074

Attached picture 23273-Arjan 3.JPG
Posted By: brobru

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/13/03 03:07 AM










Hey Stephan,


...check out the reply from Arjan........looks like the A cat + spin is starting to happen,.........I checked out your site,......nice.

regards,

Bruce
St Croix
USVI
Posted By: brobru

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/13/03 03:14 AM



John,
Checked out your site,....real nice!

Ok,...I do not have a fax,...maybe we can get to use Mary's at CatSailor,....and get her to post,......hey Mary,..you see this???

I am going to e mail you direct,... I believe HArper already has!

regards,

Bruce
USVI
Posted By: Mary

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/13/03 03:38 AM

Sorry, we are moving, and our fax number and the machine have already been moved to the new location -- but we are not yet at the new location ourselves. It is very chaotic here right now.
Posted By: brobru

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/13/03 03:39 AM

Stephan,

I sailed with a crew from Capetown, Steward was his name,..It was about 10 years ago and I had a H-18 magnum,....well, the winds were getting nasty in one particular race,..and I told him we I was going to back down the rig,...he blurted at me in that S. African english,....."if you touch that bloody mainsheet,..I will break your arm!'.......

....well,..we then fell off a large wave and our combined weight broke the wing clear off,...as we scrambled back on the boat and got things clear I said,...'...I never touched the mainsheet Steward...".....called it a day.

So, I know you all are great in big air.

I had a new main made by Ullman. Charlie Olgletree listened to what I needed and made it 6 inches smaller on the leech,...foot to top......I was in some 20+ winds last month and I never touched the mainsheet,...never added more than enough downhaul to get the wrinkles out.....it was all the power I needed,.....upwind and downwind....at one point downwind, the rig achieved a goal I was trying to hit.....sailing at 170 degrees,...main only,...the telltales reversed for about 30-45 seconds(both hulls down),..I looked around...thinking that the wind shifted....but the boat was rocketing over big seas.....the boat was going windspeed...

.you are correct,...downwind,...the faster you go,..the more stable the rig!.....honestly,...with a 1 person rig,...deep is good and increasing CMG is the only concern.

....thanks for the interesting tips...

regards,

Bruce
USVI
Posted By: Jake

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/13/03 03:07 PM

John,

You can fax it to me. I'm emailing you my fax number.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/14/03 03:05 PM

Here's the sketch from John at Stealth Marine.....perty cool (I sketched on the computer).

Attached picture 23359-part1b.jpg
Posted By: brobru

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/15/03 03:18 AM

JAke and John,

Thanks for the specs.

I understand the handle........I can follow the line,........one of you explain the elastic and the rest,.......John,...you mentioned that a part of this would be inside the crossbeam.........which part?

Looks interesting....

Bruce
USVI
Posted By: john p

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/15/03 10:23 AM

Bruce

The elsatic and the blocks take up the slack line.

Have you checked inside your beam yet to see what's in there?

I am away for a couple of days now, but if you want more info you might want to call me to discuss it next week.



John
Posted By: brobru

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/16/03 12:59 PM

John,

1. Inside my front cross beam,..other than the beam-to-hull support bolts and the mast bar,....is nothing.

2. For the interested parties John,..using the diagram attached to Jakes posting,...walk us through this one more time......thanks


regards,

Bruce
Posted By: john p

Re: Input; Developing Hi Wind,1 person,Uni spin system - 08/17/03 11:56 PM

Right, the rope starts in the horizontal position, the cleat is stopping it moving from right to left, when you pull the handle vertically, the rope is pulled from the left, as the handle is moved down, the elastic draws in the slack, then the process starts again.
Posted By: Tornado

M20 Snail? - 09/13/03 12:31 AM

Have you seen the spinnaker fulrer setup on the Marstorm M20? It's a snail-shaped shell with a roller drum inside, all mounts just in front of the mast. The roller is parallel to the front beam and the snail opening faces towards the front. Though I've not seen it up close, it must have a line to roll the roller and spool in the spinny. Has the advantage of being extremely compact, low windage and fast (perhaps faster than a snuffer).
Looks real Wiz-Bang with the fancy snail shape made from Carbon. From thinking more about how it works, one could likely be fashioned out of an old plastic bucket. Heck, you could even do away with whole shell completely and just run a snuffer-style hoop (mouth) at the front to feed the sail onto a horizontal roller drum.

Mike.
Posted By: brobru

Re: M20 Snail? - 09/13/03 04:32 AM

mike,

Sounds interesting,.........anyone have a pic or a link?........i went to the Marstrom site,........did not see this..

regards,

Bruce
St. Croix
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: M20 Snail? - 09/13/03 08:25 AM

I think there are some pictures of the M20 'snailhouse' in one of the PDF files on their web site at http://www.sailcenter.se/dokument/infoarticles.html

The M20 snailhouse was tested on one of the swede tornadoes, but it was to hard one the fabrics of the gennaker. They did not believe that a gennaker would survive a whole regatta.

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