CatFight - Lake Michigan

Pictures from Friday's first race. Only the brave went out with winds consistently over 20 with higher gusts, waves at 5.

Another... spectator fleet

Beach errosion over night Thursday... scale is tough to tell but the height of the sand drop is about 6 ft at peak.

Here is the wind recordings for the area (from South Haven)

It cracks me up that so many of the Hobie haters on here think that the Hobie 16 is a pitch pole machine and yet the good old 16 would have been out racing in twenty knots.
I hope the wind dies down for you guys.

There was one hobie 16 there and when I left, it was still on the trailer. I don't know what happened in the remainder of the weekend as I headed home... My son and I are 20 lbs under minimum on the I20 so going out in that stuff would not be considered being a responsible parent :-)

Five Day Wind Plot for Muskegon!

Link to site
http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/metdata/mkg/plots/plot_5dy.png

That lone Hobie 16 belonged to Bruce Williams. He did put it in the water and sailed single-handed even in the heavier winds on Sunday. CRAM may have damaged their reputation somewhat by catering more to the low portsmouth boats than high portsmouth boats. Hobie 16's and 18's did not show up this year...maybe because of excessive in between race waits and single lap courses of past Cat Fights. Not much fun for the paying customer IMHO. The majority of Hobies at Cat Fight VI were Tigers racing F18.

Thanks for the postings,,, pic's and info,, Mike !! Obviously,,, the sailors had a handful, to deal with, in those conditions.

Are there any results available at this point ??

downhaul the hell outta the sail and go have fun!

(eat a cheesecake before you push off too!)

Friday morning was just plain mean. The only thing I would have felt comfortable on would have been a Hobie 14. By the afternoon, it was much more reasonable and more people went out to play.

Saturday was fun, despite the rain that came and went. The afternoon / evening was delightful. The wind slowly died off during the day until the last race it was marginal trapezing on the Tiger (with big waves for surfing downwind).

Sunday was just nuclear. The sun was out, making it "cheerfuly nuclear," but it was nuking, nonetheless. It was a blast.

Here's John (Tigerboy) and Giselle going out through the surf:

Much better graph Ken_H!!! Looks like the winds in Muskegon were about 10 higher than South Haven light.

(your image displayed inline)

OHHH When Wouter wakes up there'll be plenty of pics for him to critique for proper surf launchings.

CRAM

To be fair, CRAM is an OPEN club (I am a newer member).

The invitation was thrown out to all classes - see the NOR(including H-18 & H-16 cats).

They had a decent showing of Tornado class cats this year again...

NACRA F-18 Matt & Domonique Struble 1st place CatFight low portsmouth spinnaker class!

Struble's NACRA F-18 airborne in Lake Michigan chop!

Hello all,

Is there a site with the results?

There were alot of classes and I am interested.

regards,

Bruce
St. Croix
I-17

Results should be posted (soon)at http://www.websitemagic.com/cram/ or
http://catfightrace.com/

Check out the Nacra F-17 Pics!

Nacra F-17 & NEW A2 @ CatFight VI - Lake Michigan

More Nacra F-17 @ CatFight VI - Lake Michigan

More Pics of Nacra F-17 @ CatFight VI - Lake Michigan

Ken H.....

I know CRAM is an open club and the NOR invited everyone who sails beach cats. I'm not putting down the effort CRAM put into Cat Fight VI. CRAM did a GREAT job in hosting the event this year both on and off the water. It keeps getting better. Hats off to the RC for suffering through the rough conditions. All I can say is a big THANK YOU CRAM for some great racing. We just need to convince the high portsmouth (Hobies in particular) to support the event again after some past miscues. I was just commenting on an observation and past experiences as to why only one Hobie 16 showed up.

John Bauldry
Commodore, Hobie Fleet 276
Hobie Tiger #1317
Detroit, MI

Ken H

Thanks for the posts.

In Pic #1, of the F 17 series,..what a great shot!

Of the 3 boats, 2 cannot be seen because they are in a trough,...what great sailing conditions!

The boat in the background and the 17's masthead birdie suggest this to be the downwing mark,...correct?

In these conditions, 20+ wind and 3+ waves, the non spin 17 really comes alive,..it hits max very fast,....I wonder if they tried to hoist the spin ( probaly not..)

Anyway, this is a case for a smaller mainsail. The 'R' with the taller mast and 170 sf main was probaly a handful upwind.

I went to a 150 sf main , and in these conditions ( which is normal down here),..the 17 rockets and one nevere touches the mainsheet upwind,...you just scream as the 17 slices thru the waves at full throttle.

I wonder if any 17 participants are out there to tell us thier stories?

..anyway, great posts and pics,....and great sailing!

Bruce
I-17
St. Croix
US Virgin Islands

Brobu,
The F17's were at the offset mark off of A (to separate the upwind and transitioning downwind boats). All the F17's were "R" configuration, and all ran chutes. The boat is actually much better behaved with it up. The upwind legs were just a way to go back downwind with the chute. What a ride!

Tigerboy1,
I think the new format of separate start and finish lines solves the high portsmouth dilemma (race management). The Hobie 16s could have raced long courses. They would have just run less races overall for the weekend.

Nacra F17
USA 320

Is it just me or is attendance pretty low for catfight this year? What have the attendance figures been in the past? (I might be confusing this with something else).

Jake...

If memory serves me...Cat fight II in 2001 had over 100 boats (110?). Cat Fight VI had approximately 40 (42?). The trend has been toward declining attendance.

JB

All things considered, with Virginia Beach at the beginning of the month, and Performance Race Week in three weeks in Traverse City, I think several of the out of state visitors had to pick and choose this year. We did have a large showing of cram people and lots of wisconsin boats, but the Floridia boys didn't come up this year. Hopefully we'll see them at PRW.

Also, Hats off to the race committee. With the new setup, seperate starts for different classes and different start finish lines, 11 races were run over the 3 days. 5 on the friday in the worst conditions, and people saying enough after the first 4. Another 4 on Saturday in high winds, with 2 following up on Sunday. By the time the F18's finished and sailed back to the start boat the flag was up for their next start.

Great Job Cram

Leah

That is a good point. There have been a ton of large scale events in the US this year.

Jake,

Attendance over the 6 Catfights have been declining, I think for good reasons. Here is my recollection and the numbers are estimates, except for this year:

2001 CF I 74 Boats
2002 CF II 93 Boats
2003 CF III 67 Boats (Performance Race Week followed CF by 2 weeks and was in Traverse City)
2004 CF IV 84 Boats
2005 CF V 64 Boats (not promoted as well as earlier CF)
2006 CF VI 46 Boats (lack of promotion, PRW in Traverse City in 3 weeks, F18 NA's a week earlier in Virginia, Dream Cruise in Detroit, gas prices...)

Unfortunately, CRAM budgeted for break even this year at 60 Boats. Our club has operated on a break even basis for most of the last 25 years since I joined. This years' losses will be difficult to swallow. The Race Committee boats that have volunteered to help with Catfight in the past have told us that this year was the last. Based on both of these, I think that Catfight will evolve back into a regular CRAM regatta, just Saturday and Sunday and will not budget for 3 nights of dinners with free beer, pop and water, and 2 nights of parties (including DJ and free Painkillers on Saturday) as we have seen this year. This is just my opinion, but I don't see how CRAM can continue to put on this kind of party and lose money. It is a shame because this event, with camping on the beach, continuous parties, and great sailing and racing, has been the best of the best in cat racing events I have been to over the past 25 years. I was at the big Division 10 Championships in the early 80's with 300 Hobies and had fun, but the parties were nothing in comparison to Catfight. This is true of the many PRW events down in Pensacola Beach I have attended. They were all fun, but the formula for Catfight was the best, IMHO. PRW 2003 in Traverse City was comparable, I understand, but I chose Catfight instead.

Those of you who chose PRW in Traverse City this year will be exposed to another Great Event with the Nacra F18 Worlds being held on its own race course, separate from the F17 North Americans, N20 Nationals and the Nacra Open Chamionships. 5 days of racing for the hard core Nacra racers and parties and events every night. Eric Kennedy, Mark Biggers and Jack Young (along with many others) are working hard to give the sailors what was provided in Traverse City 2 years ago, except with an additional day of racing and partying! Should be a terrific event!

BTW, here are the top finishers in each of the Catfight Fleets:

Low Portsmouth Spinnaker (27 Boats, 11 Races, 2 throw outs)
1st, Matt and Dominique Struble, Nacra F-18, 10 points
2nd, Martin and Benjamin Malcheski, Tornado, 39 points
3rd, Claus Schnabel and Rick Olt, Nacra 20, 39 points
4th, Chris Tuckfield and Nina Barlow, Tornado, 43 points
5th, John Bauldry and Giselle Vasuru, Hobie Tiger, 58 points
6th, Chris Blake and J.J., Nacra 20, 58 points

Low Portsmouth non-Spinnaker (5 Boats, 10 Races, 2 throw outs)
1st, Steve and Jake Parsons, Nacra 6.0, 9 points

Single-handed (13 Boats, 7 Races, 1 throw out)
1st, Bill Gillespie, Nacra F17, 7 points
2nd, Roger Cochran, Nacra F17, 10 points
3rd, Ron Miller, Nacra 5.5 Uni, 17 points

High Portsmouth (1 Boat)
Jack and Hunter Soullier, Nacra 5.2

Sparky,

How was the A2?

Tell us how it handled upwing in big air,....I bet it flew..

How was it downwind,....how did you do against the 17' w spin?

We want to hear your stories.

regards,

Bruce
I 17
St. Croix

( I left Lake Erie Aug 16)

Bruce,

Alas, I was on Race committee for Catfight, therefore, I cannot say. The A2 that was there did not correct out or even beat the best of the F17s. Keith is new to the A Class, as am I, and though he was fast to weather, the F17s in those conditions were faster downwind and faster around the courses set (windward - leeward with start line below leeward mark and finish line half way between windward and leeward mark). Interestingly, at this year's CRAM Regattas, the 2005 F17s seem almost as fast as the F18, the top F17 finishing within the top 2 or 3 F18s when they start together. I can feel that the 2005 is lighter than my 2000 when I move boats around on the beach, and it seems to be faster than the earlier boats. The skippers are better than I was, so that may be a big part of the reason for the improvement.

As for the A2 that was at Catfight, he did not "wild thing" in those conditions, and only raced in 4 of the 11 races. It sure got alot of attention on the beach from the other sailors!

Conditions on the race course on Friday were quite lumpy. I was standing up in a 23 foot Four Winns and often I could not see over the tops of the waves when we were in a trough. I estimate 6 to 8 feet from bottom of trough to top of wave on Friday morning. The waves on Lake Michigan are very close together, so it is unlike the waves I experienced in the Carribean. I heard someone saying that you could really fly downwind on Port tack, but couldn't generate the same speed on Starboard Tack. The waves and wind direction were not coordinated. On Saturday, the waves and wind were down compared to Friday, with Sunday bringing more wind and waves back. The lowest wind reading I heard from Race Committee was between 9 and 10 knots late on Saturday. Our boat (setting marks and helping with overturned boats) had radio problems so I didn't hear all the wind readings. The highest I heard was 18 knots on Friday. There were lots of boats over this weekend, and in one race on Saturday, the 3rd place F18 and 5th place F18 flipped just as they rounded or approached the leeward mark for the last time! At the same time we were at the leeward mark to offer assistance, the other chase boat was helping a turtled Tornado. After that we offered assistance to a Hobie Tiger, all in one race on the last downwind leg of that race. A couple of times, both chase/mark boats were helping or standing by flipped boats in different parts of the race course. I saw five boats turtle in these condidtions (the most I have ever seen in one regatta). We helped one Tiger get upright (water filled the mast) and watched a Tornado self right from being turtled. While we stood by, a Nacra F18 got the mast back to the surface from being turtled, and eventually got it back upright.

Less than 1/3 of the boats registered were on the water for the first 2 races Friday and the last 2 races on Sunday!

Bruce, I was hoping that you might find your way to one of our regattas while in the Midwest and we could meet. I hope you had a good time! Hurricane season approaches in your neck of the woods! Take care!

John: You will have a very difficult time getting any of the H16's there while there is a HCA points event going on in Barnaget. With the national points still counting towards qualifying for the nationals, as far as we know, we have to pick our spots. The best 5 regattas count, so it is nice to get in 6 or 7 events that qualify for points.
Speaking of great parties: Madcatter XXX is only 269 days away. Mark your calenders for May 19-21 for what will be a truly epic event.The forecast calls for a 10 case Don Q rum squall. John will dance

Les, leaving aside the last sentence above, how do you understand your observation in relation to the F17 rules, e.g.



How is this satisfied if the weight has changed over several seasons? Assuming your observation is correct, are the new F17s racing with a PN that reflects their lower weight compared with earlier I17Rs?

Mark.

Mark,

I know that the results from all of CRAM races go to or will go to Darlene Hobock to adjust PN. The F17 from this year feels lighter, but some of that is the alterations to the boom, carbo blocks, mid-pole snuffer system, different tramp attachment system, etc., etc. This has happened in all the Nacra classes over the years, e.g., eliminating the mid-tramp pole from the N5.2, switching from polyester resin to vinylester resin in the Nacras beginning in 1999, etc. This has been the case in the Hobie classes, with changes in hull construction in the Hobie 16 and Hobie 18, now changing downhaul systems on the Hobie 16. It just goes on and on. Within the Nacra classes, you can purchase and upgrade your older boat to have the same equipment that comes on the new boats, like the new boom, new rudder blades, new daggerboards, mid-pole snuffer, new carbo blocks, etc. These continual upgrades, though not usually major changes, are one of the reasons sailors sell their current boat to buy a new boat (it always seemed to be a "must" in the old Division 10 days). It always seemed that the new boats were faster. In the old days when boats were weighed at major regattas (still doing this in F18), there was significant weight differences in boats. When I weighed the N5.8s at North Americans in Traverse City in the early 90's, we saw some really light boats (had to add weight) and some really heavy boats. When I bought my 1999 N5.5 Uni, it felt lighter than my 1988 N5.5 Uni. Having visited the Performance factory, it would not be unreasonable to expect variation in boat weights with changes in weather. There is production variation in all processes. I also hope that Performance continues to improve their boats without degrading their durability. As a customer, I would like to think that buying a new boat would be better than buying an old boat. If improving the F17 is the reason so many more of them sold this year, then I applaud Performance for making the right move. Are the new F17s at the front of the fleet? Yes. Are the sailors the same ones that were at the front on the previous boats? Yes. Is it a faster boat or are the skippers getting better? After single handing a spinnker boat for several years, I think skipper skill has more to do with time around the course. Also, on the F17, the learning curve takes longer to climb than on many other boats.

Do I think the F17 for 2005 violates the rules? Well, the rules were written for 2005. There are still rules for the N-17 that don't have the adjustments in spinnaker size based on skipper weight and the adjustment of skipper weight to equalize all skippers. The F17 cannot violate rules in 2005 when that is the first year for it. In CRAM, we have a F17 fleet and the older 17s all race those rules.

Considering we have the perfect opportunity here shortly, I would like to put a "friendly" chalenge on the table for the F17's comming to Traverse City, to put our boats on the scales. I, as an owner of a 17 would be interested in seeing if there is actually a difference. Either way, it would settle the discussion once and for all.

I will step up and be the first to find out.

Any takers????

Of course, this assumes that we can talk our comittee into letting us get in line at the scales with the F18's....

Bill Westrick
CRAM F17 #136

Drifting further off topic...the Nacra F18 and Hobie Tigers seem to be able to hold their weight to an amazing degree of accuracy. The Nacra F18's here (6 of them) all weigh within 3 lbs of each other (that's fully rigged). The Tigers are pretty much the same.

The results from last weekend's Catfight are posted on www.catfightrace.com. Pictures from the beach from Thursday and Friday can be found there also. More pictures from the water on Saturday are coming soon.

Nice tune up for Race Week aye.

In the results of the catfight, I see there were quite a few hobie tigers there. After reading about the Tigers success at the National and World level, I was looking forward to seeing some photos of some of the local sailors on the Tigers...but I don't see them in the photo gallery on this events website.

Lots of Inters, Nacras, and Tornado photos on the beach, but not a single Tiger. Last year, I even remember seeing a picture of a beautiful motor home with a white Tiger mural painted on the back of it...surely that guy has a Tiger...but no pictures of his boat either.??

What's up with that?

Did you know cathouse1.com is a Nacra dealer?

Oh O.K. I thought that the event was an open event and that CRAM was an open club. I didn't realize that they were intentionally taking pictures of only their own boats because the dealer runs the event. Wonder if that type of bias is why not many hobies have showed up over the last few years? Like "Tigerboy" said...the Hobie numbers have dropped as well as the overall attendance numbers.

Looked at CRAM's website too a couple times over the last couple years and I don't think I've ever seeen a photo of a Hobie there either. Not that it matters to me cause I am not good enough to race...and my Hobie is a bit old anyway...but I find catamaran sailing exciting.

Actually, the guy with the cool Tiger on his motorhome (Sparky) has a Nacra A2. Is there no morality in sailing........Sparky was part of the Race Committee, so no boat.......I will have some cool Tiger pictures on the CRAM website in the coming week.

OK, now you've pissed me off and I tend to rant when I'm pissed. Ya know, I sailed a Hobie 16 for ten years. Now I sail a Nacra. It's all good. Hobies are cool. Tigers are fast.

I would like to know why you basically bitch (anomously, of course) about a regatta you didn't even attend? You don't show up for a GREAT regatta, then bitch about declining Hobie numbers. I just don't get the mentality. I'm sorry Hobie folks, but the fact is that most of the people active in the administration of CRAM happen to be Nacra sailors. Please don't spin this to be anti-Hobie. We (CRAM) would love to see more Hobies involved in our club, including all the work related to running regattas. GET INVOLVED! Make CRAM your club. It's a simple formula: the officers (those who do the work) get to make the rules.

Regarding the website (which I manage), it carries pictures of regattas that are submitted to me. Our club races tend to be mainly Nacra. Some of the Tiger boys are starting to show up more regularly, which is cool. Send me some Hobie pictures from a CRAM regatta and I'll post them. Yes, that involves you DOING SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE.

CRAM is absolutely an open club. Everyone is welcome. It's been that way for forty years now. It will continue to be that way. If you don't like our club, start your own club. DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE.

Sorry for the rant, but I will not allow cheap shots on the people who put endless hours in preparing for and running Catfight, especially from someone who wasn't even there. How does the Alanis Morissette song go...."I didn't see your name in the credits".......

Can't speak for Catfight, I've never been. But the regattas I have been involved with running or volunteering for we don't got out of our way to appoint or hire a photographer. Fortunatly we have someone (Roy Laughlin) who takes pics and writes a little story. But, it's for his own site and he takes direction from nobody.

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the local Nacra dealer is running event. Just that he/she took the pics and posted them.

From everything I have read and heard about Catfight is that it is an open to all event and from the sounds of it a damn good time.

Just chock it up to a dealer being a dealer. How many Hobie dealers go out of their way to promote Nacra's?

Take your Hobie to Catfight next year and take all the pics you want. I look forward to seeing them.

Hope you feel better. I'm not bitching, just wondering. As I said, I don't race anyway...started out as a curiousity to see the latest Hobie I have heard others talk about. I wasn't complaining about the event...I've never been to it.

I guess I was just relating the other threads in this topic, and thought I had maybe come upon a reason for the declining numbers and the unfortunate demise of the event in its current format. Guess I pressed on the thorn in the lions foot...sorry.

I wouldn't call on the demise of catfight just yet. Sparky was just talking out loud. The officers have made no decisions on Catfight VII. This will happen as part of our business meeting in the fall.

Sorry for ranting, but I do feel better.....I just think we need to support catamaran racing in all forms in a positive manner.

Hey Roger...had to chime in. Heard this years event was run well, sorry I couldn't make it myself. Conditions were Catfightish, as usual! I heard that Bruce Williams sailed his 16 solo...just wondered why are there no scores for him?


Jeff Rabidoux

Michsailor...

I was at Cat Fight VI, sailed a Tiger there and placed second in an F18 fleet of 20. For the record...the pics posted so far are from Thursday and Friday. Friday was the first day of racing but only about a third of the total boats went out. The weather was quite rude. I do know that all the Tigers (6) there sat on the beach for first two races with all the other boats until after lunch. The pics show most of the boats launching for the first race or racing. I'll give CRAM the benefit of the doubt regarding pictures and I'm sure there will be some posted from later in the event. CRAM did an outstanding job with this years event and I thank them for a great weekend of racing, parties and cammaraderie.

Can't be in a pic if your not out on the water!

OBTW...the white tiger mural is on the back of the blue cathouse1.com motorhome which I think belongs (or belonged??) to the local Nacra dealer Mark Biggers.

John Bauldry
Commodore, Hobie Fleet 276
Hobie Tiger #1317

Jmrabs,
Bruce wasn't scored in Catfight because he was not class legal (one up on a Hobie 16). You must be class legal to be scored in Catfight. Of course, he was scored in CRAM's Portsmouth fleet and finished 1st (pretty darn good in that wind). The Catfight site only posts Catfight results. The CRAM site will have all results posted (hopefully today).

You shoulda been there. It was quite a ride.

Roger

I talked to the photographer (Cathouse) this morning and his shots from Saturday were set for a higher resolution than Thursday and Friday...somehow the camera settings got changed! It is taking a lot of effort to convert the files and it is lower priority than his work on the Nacra F18 World Championships, F17 North Americans, Nacra 20 Nationals, etc. coming up in couple of weeks. He said he will get some photos up each day. (www.catfightrace.com) He was the only one taking pictures from the water.

BTW, the mural on my motorhome is of two Snow Leopards, and Tigerboy was right, the Cathouse motorhome has a beautiful mural of a big Bengal Tiger.

Just a thought on the pics taken at higher than they'd like resolution. I use Fuji's Finepix software that has a great feature for changing from high resolution down to lower after the pic is taken. It works with a lot of file formats and it dosen't need to be taken with a Fuji camera in most cases. It used to be available as a free download on their site in case you lost your disc. Good luck!

Rich

Bruce, a former Canadian National Champion, obviously did an amazing job sailing the 16 in those conditions single-handed!

Hey michsailor, we have 2 hobie fleets in michigan. One on the west side of the state, and one in the detroit area. If you just want to get together with other sailors...socialize...and sail together...it's a great way to go. Don't worry about your lack of racing skills. We have lots of non-racing events.

You can visit the detroit area fleet website at www.fleet276.com to see area events and also to get a link to the fleet 519 website for our friends in Austin Lake. Come out and enjoy sailing at whatever level you wish. You'll also see lots of Tiger photos on the fleet 276 website under the photo section! Read some of the event write-ups to for some insight on the regatta life!

Jeff

Catfight VI was the best regatta in years, both on and off the water. Separated start and finish lines made for short wait times. Wind was thrilling but not out of control. Thanks to the organizers and RC for a job well done. Hope all that attended will spred the word and promote all the improvements made this year. This venue has such potencial and the organizers have taken all the input over the last years and shown that they can manage a big event that will appeal to sailors and beach crew alike. I would like to call on all catamaran racers to make this THE REGATTA to attend next year.