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Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism

Posted By: tshan

Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/07/08 02:20 PM

I am going to change out the mechanism for adjusting diamond wire tension. The current system is just a nut/bolt system that is fairly cumbersome to adjust. The way I see it, I know of two options:

1. The turnbuckle system used by NACRA (or at least my old NACRAs). Turnbuckle on each diamond wire, adjust as needed on each side. Sometimes cumbersome on adjust the water. Simpler installation (I'd think).

2. The single lever system that I have seen on A Class and 18 Squares. It looks to adjust both diamonds at the same time and maybe the easiest to adjust. More complicated to install, but may be better in the long run.

Any input on these systems? Are there any other systems that are preferred? Good, bad or indifferent? I DO know that F16 rules prohibit changes during a race, but changes in between races are permitted.
Posted By: Wouter

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/07/08 06:02 PM



two comments :

-1- Read the class rules again, you made a mistake intepreting them

-2- Do a search on my setup; you'll find a post with photographs and all.

Wouter
Posted By: tshan

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/07/08 07:58 PM

Option 1 now has 1 vote. Thanks W.

Yes. In my haste I did misread the rules. You can adjust diamond tension anytime you want. Ever seen the tension system on a 505?

I don't need another on the water fine adjustment, so I think the turnbuckle set up is the way to go.
Posted By: LuckyDuck

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/07/08 08:25 PM

Tom. I think the lever system makes sense on the A Cat so that you can get a fuller main for the downwing run. With the kite on he F-16 doing the work on the downwind leg I don't see a real need for the lever. My 2 cents. Ed
Posted By: phill

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/07/08 08:50 PM

Tom,
There are another options.
The FCA Blade has a single bolt with its head under the mast base that allows adjustment. Quick and easy to adjust.
I understand there are other boats like the Nacra Infusion
and latest carbon rigs from Marstrom use a similar system.

Others like Stealth and some Tornados have a single turnbuckle on the front of the mast but you may need a bail to delfect the jib as it passes.

Regards,
Phill
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/07/08 09:28 PM

Quote

Others like Stealth and some Tornados have a single turnbuckle on the front of the mast but you may need a bail to delfect the jib as it passes.

Regards,
Phill


Is this still an issue with self tackers?

Reason I ask is that I have yet to rig my Jib!
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/07/08 09:32 PM

Not an issue in my experience, with the selftacking setup.
Posted By: phill

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/07/08 09:46 PM

Simon,
I noticed on Bundy's Tornado a couple of years back that he had a bail to deflect the jib.

Is this still an issue?-
I would imagine it would depend on the geometry of the fore triangle of the individual boat and dimensions of the jib.

I don't think it is an issue with the Stealth, . The only sloop rigged Stealth that I've seen did not have a bail.

Regards,
Phill
Posted By: Mark P

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/08/08 12:38 AM

I'm still not sure about how to interpret this Rule. I know where this rule wants to go but because of the confliction between "F16 Class Rule Summary. Other Main Rules" and " Rigging & Equipment 1.7.2" terminology.
Who knows what could happen at an impartial Protest Committee?
Note. I said impartial <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Wouter.
So could the F16 GC please, please clarify what takes precedence in this respect and not as in this case individuals interpretation.
Posted By: phill

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/08/08 01:57 AM

Mark,
The rules were amended specifically to allow running diamonds. I remember the discussions at the time and
the intention of the rule is to allow them.

The way I see it the rules make a statement about adjusting standing rigging and then they tell you that there is an exception which is to allow running diamonds.
At least this was the intention.

Regards,
Phill
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/08/08 03:28 AM

Tshan,

Option 2 with a single turnbuckle not a lever (my prefered of your two options) allows you to make accurate changes to both sides at the same time. However, if you use this system its important to fit an inline turnbuckle on one of the diamond wires, as no matter how carefull you are one wire will be longer than the other. To do this you need a Ronstan type 2 (or similar) turnbuckle with a threaded swage terminal in both ends. Use a calibrated turnbuckle RF1575 as your main turnbuckle to allow easily repeatable settings.

I've sailed on F18s and Ts with the single turnbuckle on the front and never had an issue with the jib. The hidden bolt system is nice but a very complicated retrofit.
Posted By: Mark P

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/08/08 09:50 AM

Quote
Mark,
The rules were amended specifically to allow running diamonds. I remember the discussions at the time and
the intention of the rule is to allow them.

The way I see it the rules make a statement about adjusting standing rigging and then they tell you that there is an exception which is to allow running diamonds.
At least this was the intention.

Regards,
Phill

Hi Phill
I wasn't a party to this decission so I wouldn't know the intenet of the Rules. All I can understand is what is there in Black and White, the first rule stating the rig can't be trimmed other than x,y,z (which doesn't include diamonds). And then another rule stating diamonds can be adjusted.
If "Diamond's" were included in the "F16 Class Rule Summary" I wouldn't be discussing this issue, but as it isn't it could be especially difficult to the layman to understand the intent of the rules due to the conflicting statements.
In a previous thread which skirted this issue Scooby suggested that the control for a diamond's could be termed a sheet, but as far as I'm concerned there are only 3 types of sheets on a F16, main sheet, jib sheet and spinnaker sheet. All other lines are Control Lines or Halyards.
Posted By: phill

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/08/08 10:04 AM

Mark,
I thought we had already been through this and agreed to fix the wording to ensure the words better reflect the intent.

Regards,
Phill
Posted By: Mark P

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/08/08 11:48 AM

I know we've been through it but I never saw anything which indicated the wording was actually going to be amended. I hope it will because it's much better to discuss these issues here rather than in a protest room.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/08/08 11:55 AM

You hope to do THAT well at the GC'08? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
How can you stand the pressure?

(I am joking, and I am sure I will get a 'welsh' reply). If Phill say that a clarification of the rules are coming, I am certain they will come. No need to have a jury decide on our class rules, we can handle that ourself.
Posted By: Mark P

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/08/08 04:31 PM

Don't worry Rolf.... We are going to have a ball!!!!
When are you going to enter?
Posted By: Dermot

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/08/08 05:50 PM

Quote
Don't worry Rolf.... We are going to have a ball!!!!
When are you going to enter?


Just back from the Match <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Congratulations Wales <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> - Ireland were Shi** (Shocking Awful) <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Edit: Not to take from Wales, who played very well <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: waynemarlow

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/08/08 06:31 PM

Ireland certainly weren't as bad as England !!!

Back to the thread, recently there was a picture of F16 with an adjustable diamond wire mechanism rather like the A class. What exactly are the benefits to the A's and why not the F16's ?. I also wonder if we shouldn't be just a hauling on the downhaul as well as the diamond wires simultaneously as it would make the whole process of bending the mast much easier ? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Mark P

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/08/08 07:51 PM

Thread hi-jacking at its worst........ sorry
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Posted By: Mark P

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/08/08 07:57 PM

Next week France and also the chance that England could win the Wooden Spoon........amazing!!!
Posted By: Dermot

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/08/08 10:27 PM

Quote
Next week France and also the chance that England could win the Wooden Spoon........amazing!!!


Wow <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Just watched recording of England - Scotland !
Posted By: Mark P

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/09/08 09:35 AM

Dermot, the Mumbles YC Rugby Team could have played better than England yesterday!!! Yes the MYC has a Rugby team which could probably only ever happen in Wales. We don't play that often and when this does happen it's only for charity fund raising. In the photo below the MYC are in the red and the RNLI in blue. Mind you Alun W Jones has been know to play for us. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/09/08 09:46 AM

How can you play a game like that and still be friends afterwards, or even live in the same area??
Posted By: Mark P

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/09/08 10:11 AM

If you look very closely at the photo you'll notice that everyone has a black and gold can near them. In these cans is a liquid called Strongbow (Cider/Alcoholic apple juice). It is our combined love for this liquid which ensures that we'll always remain the best friends as no matter what happens on the Rugby pitch we'll always drink together <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Diamond wire tension adjustment mechanism - 03/09/08 10:15 AM

You are mixing alcohol into the experience as well?? Oh my, oh my, I dont dare to think about the same setup here.
Good for you being able to pull off what looks like a seriously good time!
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