There are quite a few schools that offer sailing scholarships in fact.

I knew that when we sailed against College of Charleston, they recruited sailors like my school recruited basketball players. I know schools like Tufts, Brown, St. Mary's that take their sailing seriously offer a limited amount of scholarship for sailing.

However, the amount of scholarships that are offerred nationwide should not be a factor when deciding whether or not to support Art's program.



Alter Cup is on F16's. I *think* the SL16 conforms to F16 class rules, but the Blades used at AC would not be SL16 class legal.

Why isn't this sport seeing the numbers it did in the 70's and 80's? I'm not talking just youth either. Most of the boats aren't that expensive new, and used boats are really affordable. Granted it's mostly hobies that fit in that catagory, but they also aren't the most hi-tech. Maybe instead of trying to support just youth multihull sailing, more has to be done to increase the numbers across the board. Get more adults and the children will follow? It seems to me that this sport is slowly dying. Why?

I don't know what scholarships and the Alter Cup and F16's have to do with this thread. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Mary:

That is why we are working with GBCA, HYC & Lakewood Yacht Club through contacts. They already have youth programs, PRO, marks, chase boats, inc. Much easier to incorporate and they are excited about expanding youth programs together. I agree it doesn't matter the boat or the organization, we just need to get the youth involved to save the sport in any way we can. That is one of the reason I give rides when the Sea Scouts come down to the dike.

Doug

Exactly!

I never thought of suscribing to catsailor, good idea.

It's a lifestyle thing. Here in Oz and I suspect the US also, the emphasis on materialism has increased and the focus has shifted away from recreational stuff to things more simbolic of affluence like bigger much more expensive houses and bigger more expensive cars. These have to be paid for so ppl are working longer hours with little time for recreation.
Also, shopping here in Oz is the most participated in passtime. The shopping Malls are full and the lakes are empty.

How depressing! I can't even remember the last time I was in a shopping mall. I thought only teenagers went to malls.
But, wait! That's what this thread is about! So if we want to get teenagers for sailing, we need to go to the malls and round them up. Great idea, Berny! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Doug and everyone else

Saving the sport through junior sailing... is fine... but it is NOT the issue or what this particular program is about. Community sailing programs with cats, sea scouts, junior summer camps, etc etc address this goal. Hell ...DEALERS need to address this to have a market to sell to... God love you for working at this. BUT !!!

We need to focus our resources and energy!... we can't afford to build this huge program that serves any kid and hope that elite sailors emerge. (We have not done this already.... why should things change now)

Hell will freeze over before we have numbers which match the number of kids sailing 420's or lasers... Moreover, We don't have the option of drawing on a large pyramid base of junior sailors right now either. We need a new approach. We are out of time... We must focus!

We should be about a FOCUSED EFFORT TO BUILD A TRAINING PIPELINE for serious junor sailors... Its not little league!... its for 21 and unders who are committed to racing excellence... (think of AAU basketball) (The program may be their first exposure to a catamaran after years of racing lasers or 420's)

Your own kid may not want to race this seriously.... BUT other kids do want this for themsleves. ... We know that we have huge programs of junior boys and girls who are really working at their laser and 420 racing.... some places even have 29ner programs. We must have a catamaran option for these sailors! TRUST THE DARK SIDE TO WIN HERE!

We have virtually nothing programatic going on at this level ... The hobie class 16 junior program is terrific for what it is. ... BUT IT DOESN"T CUT IT!
(See Matt Bounds answer to my early post as to what the program entails)

Who said it does not cut it? ... the US Olympic Sailing coaches.

My attempt to lend some Hobie 16's to junior sailors in CBYRA... DOES NOT CUT IT either!

We have been found out!... Bodie and Brenner are right that we have no program... (Theyu are completely wrong that we have no sailors in spite of our non program)

The only ones who can fix the problem are ourselves and so now we are faced with... what the hell are we going to do?

What is our program?.., Two national events??? Without a national program, what parent would support their kid in racing a catamaran...its just screwing around in a toy boat if we keep to our existing program.

So we need to BUILD A PIPE (regional training camps like CISA ) .... Assemble the peices... (Junior National Regattas)... Together these elements = a PIPELINE... Fill the pipeline with Racers ... Its a CATAMARAN DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM.

If we do this right... perhaps they have the training coupled with their ability to compete on the world stage.

This is fish or cut bait time folks. If you have a different vision... Now is the time to put it out there! ...we can debate it.. modify it... adapt it.... build on the Hobie model... build on the Sl16 model... merge... layer... Lots of possibiltiies.

Great idea, wrong boat. Alter Cup is on Blade F-16s.

Here is what I am doing in my area:

First I am a dealer for Hobie, Catalina and other boat lines. I have contracts with 3 resorts and the Girl and Boy Scouts. Plus I run a cruise business with an R33 and rent a C22 (the local college rents Waves and Vanguards). In addition to all this I run youth and adult sailing programs on Wave’s & Open Bics, plus Access Dinghies for those with disAbilities. We also just got are local Hobie Fleet going and we focus on H16’s and Islands (that’s right Islands; we already have a fleet of them). We are more focused in our fleet on the NAHCA events so we don’t really pay attention to US Sailing or the ISAF, and we don’t care what they think or want. Several of our members just bought new H16’s and we have a good size fleet of older H16’s. As you can imagine I am very busy with all this but it is all scheduled in and is working well. At some point I will be purchasing a couple new H16’s for our fleet so more of our youth can race on new boats. Basically our path is to get our youth to the Hobie Nationals and on to the H16 worlds.

I had Art come to our program for 3 straight years and have continued the “fast n fun” program here like in Seattle. We are really not interested in of course bringing SL16’s to our program sense we are a Hobie fleet and have our plan already set but I think its great for the manufacture of the SL16 and Art, I wish them the best.

Year after year I find my kids and the other youth want to simply have some fun racing and flirting. Several of our kids want to go to Ricks Wave World event. And again we are working hard to some day go to the H16 worlds. I find it funny that some people think the H16 is not good enough for the ISAF youth worlds but then I looks at the old monohull designs currently being used and all I can say is whatever. There are a lot of hands and attitudes related to the Olympics, US Sailing, and the ISAF and I really do not want any part of it. I am not saying those that do want a part in it have a problem; I am just saying I do not have the time to deal with the attitudes, changes in boat selections, etc. I want the kids in my programs to have fun, learn good life time rec. skills, and go on as happy people. Plus turning up the heat to become some world class sailor is not what many people want and want to spend their hard earned money on. I have wanted to go to the H16 worlds for most of my life and have yet to do so because of many factors, one of which was commitments to more important things in life, but even so finally I will be going I believe in the next couple of years, my wife is going to stick me in a suit case and send me.

Also many of my youth sailors are in other sports such as soccer, etc. Parents are not going to spend a lot of money on boats and gear. They will however buy a boat they can use and their kids can race, this is a consistent theme in my sales, VERSATILITY.

Guys what I think is going to happen here with this effort is you’ll love the SL16 for a while and the move on to another boat in a few years, and then to another, and so on. I have always believed consistency is best and sticking with one design over the years is best even though I know you all will not agree. I am certainly not going to tell my club member hay a new boat is out now its time to move to that, oh and by the way its now 2010 and there is another new boat out, now you need to go to that boat. Sorry consistency is where it is at and the SL16 is not going to be a consistent and stable future.

Again I wish Art and the SL16 manufacture all the best with their selling program.

Where are you located?

I may be able to reassure some people here. The F16 will never be a youth boat, neither will the F12 replace the SL16 as the best boat to prepare the youths to become champions in the Olympic Tornado, F18 or A-cat. And lets face it guys, the Hobie 16 will never be the Olympic catamaran, nor the wave or its competitor F12 if that ever gets off the ground.

Personally I think the Hobie 16 folks have burned their own house. First they refuse to have spinnakers on their boats in any shape or form and pretty much ostrasize any H16 with spi. And now that some other builder has jumped into the gap that the H16 guys left open they scream murder and rape about being displaced as the preferred youth boat.

Personally the Hobie 16 is not a good lead-up to the tornado, F18 or even the A-cat. Just as much as a laser-1 isn't to the 49-er. That is the truth.

Another harsh truth is that the EUROPEAN Hobie 16 class is nowhere near its former strength. As EU is increasingly the more important area in sailing we'll find that the days of the Hobie 16 as the youth boat are numbered. We may see a few flare-ups here and there, but that will be all, the end result is not in any doubt.

Personally I feel the Hobie 16 posters have given Art a pretty rough ride. For Gods sake this guy has achieved something special and all we hear is whining how it doesn't do proper credit to the religious icon of catsailing. How about giving Art and his team the credit they deserve ? Without their efforts you can forget about any championship chances of US teams as all EU teams are exclusively sailing spinnaker youth boats. Meaning they got heaps of spi experience by the time they enter the championship.

Plus why don't we see the two programs as complementary. The H16 initiatives are very important in growing the sport of catamaran sailing to youths and great work is done there. Eventually from this pool a selection of talented sailors will come forward and these can then be properly trained on Arts SL16's. The way I see it this is an excellent 2-stage rocket.

But you have to stop saying things like :"in just a couple of years the SL16 will be just another boat of the past". You may be proven wrong in this and it surely degrades all the efforts made by the team around Art. Nobody is helped by that.

Wouter

It is my opinion that the sport is slowly dying due to competition from Jet Ski's and other new pass-times. And you will remember that back in the mid 70's there was an Oil Embargo here in the USA, which put gasoline at very high prices, and the Hobie Cats had just come out. So lots of people wanted to get in on this "New, exciting, way to have fun in the water" without waiting in long lines on odd numbered days to buy gasoline.

But it's not just that, back then, there were no cell phones, computers, game boys or even Cable TV. Thus you had about no in-home entertainment for the kids, so you took them to the beach in the summer. Now a days, kids stay in the nice airconditioned safety of their own bedrooms all summer, chatting online to adult pediphiles posing as 15 yr. old friends on My Space.

And, their parrents are too busy working two jobs to pay for the BMW, or conducting business 24-7 via cell phone and lap-top, to take them to the beach. They would much rather drop them at the local Yacth Club (if there is one) to sail Opti's all day. And much of what used to be public beach back in the 70's, is now private, no access beach.

It's a different world out there. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

On the whole Hobie 16 youth boat issue, I think that boat has probably turned many mono sailors away from cats, as it did me. Back in the late 70's I was racing 505's, every time I saw a H16 it was either upside down or just reaching back and forth. I guess the sailors I saw were not too good because we had no trouble passing them upwind and down.

It was not until many years later (1996?) that I got a ride on a Hobie 20, then I found out what a catamaran could be. And once I got a hold of a spinnaker cat, well, that was it. Good bye monohulls forever! But that was just a few years ago, and the Hobie 16 has been around for what, 30+ years? It's a great boat when it's blowing 20 but how often is that?

The complaint I hear from kids on the 16 is, "It's hard to tack..." Yeah, well you have to learn how to do it!

On the upside, there are lots of H16's everywhere you look. It shouldn't be too hard to get one into a kid's program. On the downside, most of the Opti kids and instructors don't know how to rig or sail them.

I was at a US Sailing Center with my kids last summer, there were 3 Hobie 16's sitting in the grass, the 50 kids were out sailing Optis, Lasers and 420's. When I asked why no kids were sailing the Hobies, the adult said, "Nobody knows how..." I offerd to show them, they said no thanks. I asked if I could rent one and sail it with my kids, they said no.

Nice way to get people involved. Way to go US Sailing. You wonder why it's dying? That's why.

A Very good question, the answer is a bit multifaceted in my opinion.
Times have changed, people have changed. In the 70's/80's Hobie's were THE Fad. They were colorful and exciting, and they were in Magazine Ads, on television shows, heck there were even movies where a Hobie cat was the central character. (Anyone remember the movie "Thin Ice" with Kate Jackson?)
Almost everyone knew what a Catamaran was, or had at least seen one. Those days are gone. Back then baby boomers were a bit more footloose and fancy free, and had time and money to spend. In today's world of two family incomes, latchkey kids, and parents trying to find activities to keep the kidlets out of trouble on weekdays until they get home from work, there isn't TIME to spend getting ready for weekends sailing.
I think back to all the time my mother spent getting the family ready to go to the lake for the weekend. and then cleaning up the gear afterwards and packing it back up for the next weekend. Then I think about my daughter trying to do the same thing for her family and I don't see how she could do it.
Then I also remember that we did a lot of sailing when I was a kid at the local Yacht Club.
Catamaran Sailors are by and large a nomadic bunch of folks. We were shunned by yacht clubs for many years, and as a result, we, as a group, became independent as a hog on ice. We hold many of our events at venues and locations that are known only to us, and those that can find our schedules and our NOR's
NOW, we spend so much time and energy pissing in one another's Wheatie's, arguing about brand loyalty, anyone that IS interested in getting into catamaran sailing, is quickly put off by the infighting.
As someone else opinioned, "Pogo Syndrome"

Stephen
H-18

All I know is that the numbers of youth sailors seem to keep increasing at a fairly dramatic rate -- seems like every year a new record is set for the major youth regattas -- in all categories except multihull. That's because there IS no multihull category.

Art's initiative is designed to change that and get multihulls involved in the mainstream of the youth sailing boom that is currently going on.

Jake et.al,

My mistake on the Alter Cup boat selection. Don't know what an SL16 is, and mistook it for an F16.

Youth Events for 2007 are now posted on the website, see http://www.nayma.org/ To add your event, contact Darline Hobock as noted on the website.

Caleb Tarleton

So is everyhting cool now? Are we working things out?

Doug