There was a proposal brought to the Hobie Cat Class Association of North America that would allow Formula 18s to race in Hobie Class regattas. I know it has been talked about many times before so it may not come as a surprise to you that the proposal was shot down by “The Bylaws Committee”.

We, The Bylaws Committee, find unanimously, that the proposal to allow F-18s to race, beyond the currently allowed "three open class regattas" per year, will violate several key points of the Bylaws as currently written. In order to instate the proposal, one or more of the Bylaws will have to be changed.

I guess it never really got to a class vote as “The Bylaws Committee” got a hold of it before that could happen.

I think there are parts of the country that this could have been nice not just for the left out Formula 18s but also to give the Tigers and Wildcats more competition. In certain parts of the country it may be hard to find Yacht Clubs to put on enough races allowing the high performance boats their due. The Hobie Class may have been able to round that out with a couple more if that were the case.

In my area it may be just the reverse. I think that we have plenty of clubs interested in the Formula 18 fleet that we can get way more venues than we could put on the calendar. In some cases there are invitations to the Hobie Class to race even though not many are members of any affiliate club. Maybe it is to lure members when they see what a nice time it is (bar, food, showers). Most of the Formula 18 members in our area are affiliated with an appropriate club which allows us to be part of the Yachting scene. I encourage any who are not to do so…it is only right.

Think about this though: We are now sailing very expensive boats. It is a bit easier to take care of them in Yacht Club environments. I would encourage you to find a club you are comfortable with and check out how many catamaran owners are members. You can also find out if there is a cheaper affiliation club which is allowed to participate in their regattas. If you do not have enough races in your area find out if they are willing to add you to the lineup. Most of them are going to be pleased you asked. They will get more registrations and a cool class to watch.

Later,
Daniel DeLave
NAF18 - West Coast Rep.

Question that I have not seen answered?
How many Hobie only regattas still exist?

Looks like quite a few:

http://www.hcana.hobieclass.com/site/hobie/hcana/downloads/nors/2009/2009HotlineSchedule2.pdf

It's fine that the Bylaws Committee gives its thoughts on bylaws interpretations but it's not their job (or within their authority) to make definitive rulings on bylaws interpretations. That's the Board of Directors job.

The Committees duties are clearly stated and limited per Article IX.

ARTICLE IX. COMMITTEE STRUCTURE
Section 2. Committee Duties
b. Bylaws Committee: The Bylaws Committee shall:
1. Consist of three (3) members serving a term of one (1) calendar year.
2. Review the Bylaws of the HCA on an annual basis, for consistency with the aims and policies of the HCA.
3. Receive, submit and review all proposed amendments to the HCA Bylaws.
4. Submit recommendations for proposed amendments to the HCA Bylaws to the Board of Directors for approval.
5. The Chairman of the Bylaws committee shall be the 2nd Vice Chairman of the HCA and shall be responsible for receiving the ballots and declaring the results.
6. All amendments to the bylaws shall be announced in the next published edition of the HCA Newsletter after declaration of results.

Nowhere is the Bylaws Committee given the power to make definitive rulings on bylaws interpretations.

So who does make the definitive interpretations? The answer is the HCA Board of Directors.

ARTICLE VI. BOARD OF DIRECTORS
Section 4. Powers and Duties: The general management of the affairs of the HCA shall be vested in the Board of Directors of HCA. The Board of Directors shall:
a. Transact all other business not explicitly vested herein to the general membership, required to carry out the purpose and aims of the HCA;

So long story short is that the Board of Directors still needs to decide this issue.

Bob is absolutely right,our job being on the Bylaws committee is to review the Bylaws and make a recommendation.We are very low on the totem pole.
Dan not really sure why you would want to air this issue out on this forum.Probably in your best interest is to discuss it with your Division chair.

Sigh...

Well... the NAHCA can worry about the proper relationship of boxes on the organizational flow chart... Facts on the ground are usually decisive.

Each local Hobie Fleet is in fact operating as a Yacht Club Organizing Authority. They can choose to drop the title Hobie points regatta, and run the event anyway they wish.

For example, Syracuse 204 can invite the IWCA Waves and the F18's to their Madcatter Regatta... drop the Hobie in the title.. They also invite their standard Hobie 16, 17 18 Classes and run their usual great OD event.

Most YC 's I know would love to add 30 F18's and 10 Waves to their event! It makes the event financially viable.

The Madcatter regatta has drawn enormous numbers of 16's... I assert the Hobie sailors won't give a damn if it's called a Points regatta or not. Evidence...The Gunpowder event in division 11 was a great regatta as a points event and remains a great regatta since they choose to not call it a points regatta... no big changes in support.

The ball then goes back to the Hobie Division who has to decide if they want to screw the Hobie 16 sailors who raced at Syracuse and deny them counting points towards their Hobie 16 High point score in the Division because the YC hosted an F18 class as well.

Usually this is described as cutting off one's nose to spite one's face!

There should be no penalty for the Hobie 16-18 racers because they generate 30 boats in a non sanctioned regatta and want to count those points in the regions High Point ... But if they don't count the points... I bet nobody really cares and support is as strong as ever. Did not matter in my area.

Bottom line...Its a local decision, if the Hobie Yacht club wants Hobie only races that will be branded Hobie Only...no changes forced from on high... Likewise the can choose not to brand it Hobie Points... Each club makes that call.

At the end of the day... you need sailors to show up at your regatta... an invitation from Syracuse to Wave Sailors may NOT be accepted... Why... because they are over scheduled or its too damn cold, or its been known to snow on this event... what ever... ditto the F18's (although those boys would be going south for this event)

Good luck to the reform minded Hobie sailors!

Hmmm......

Problem is - Dan doesn't have a "Division Chair". He doesn't own a Tiger anymore and he's not a 2009 member of the HCA.

This is an internal HCA policy decision which really only affects certain areas of the country, where there are Tiger one-design fleets as well as F18 fleets.

BTW, the language used by the Bylaws Committee - "three open class regattas per year" - is misleading. It's not carte blanche for a Division to have three open class events. An existing HCA event cannot use this policy to re-characterize their event as an "open" event to invite other classes.

It is a method for yacht clubs and other Organizing Authorities to invite Hobie Classes to their event and have the event count towards HCA rankings. The Charlotte Harbor Regatta is a perfect example of this, where the Hobie 16 Class has been invited to share a regatta with Flying Scots, Sunfish, Melges 24s, Viper 640s, Wetas and several other classes.

So long as we’re putting it all out there here I’ll post the facts before they become mischaracterized.

First the proposal:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HCA Points System Proposal

Proposed by: Rob Jerry, North American Tiger Class representative

Proposal:

HCA Points regattas shall be allowed to include a Formula 18 start when it is decided by the areas Division Chair and Fleet Commodores that doing so is

a) necessary to support Tiger and Wildcat sailors and/or
b) necessary for the overall health of the event and therefore in the best interest of the Hobie one-design fleets.

The following conditions shall apply:

1) The fleet hosting the regatta must have local Hobie Tiger or Wildcat owners in its membership.
2) Tigers racing within the Formula 18 fleet shall be scored separately as a Tiger one-design fleet in addition to their Formula 18 fleet score. Only Tiger one-design scores shall be counted in the HCA ranking.
3) At least one competitor on each Hobie Tiger shall be an HCA member. Other Formula 18 sailors shall pay a $10 per boat fee to support the HCA regatta insurance policy.
4) This policy shall be in effect for a two year trial period after which it shall be evaluated by the HCA Board of Directors.

Reasons:

In many areas of the North American region HCA points events have either been canceled or run the risk of being canceled in the future due to low turnout. It is not in the best interest of Hobie one-design classes when these events cease to exist or convert to an open regatta format. Part of this problem stems from the fact that the majority of Tiger sailors prefer to race in the larger Formula 18 fleets than the smaller Tiger fleets. If adopted, this proposal will help to retain viable numbers at Points Regattas by retaining Tiger competitors and boosting numbers with additional F18 competitors.


Now the Bylaws Committee Opinion
I believe the Committee is Dona McIntosh, Mike Madge and Jeremy Leonard
---------------------------------------------------------------
We, The Bylaws Committee, find unanimously, that the proposal to allow F-18s to race, beyond the currently allowed "three open class regattas" per year, will violate several key points of the Bylaws as currently written. In order to instate the proposal, one or more of the Bylaws will have to be changed. Below are our findings.
The Bylaw as written:
ARTICLE II. - PURPOSE AND AIMS
Section 1. Purpose: The purpose of the Hobie Class Association of North America is to establish and promote Hobie Cat sailing and racing in its geographic boundaries...
Violation:
We, The Bylaws Committee, find that by allowing F-18s built by other manufacturers to race, HCA would not necessarily be promoting "Hobie Cat Sailing," we would be promoting F-18 sailing. We don't believe that the spirit of the Bylaws is to support the open class F-18 racing. We feel that it is not the job of HCA to promote or support F-18 racing.
The Bylaw as written:
Section 2. Aims: The aims of the HCA include:
a. To give support and encouragement to the sailors of Hobie Cat sailboats.
Violation:
We, The Bylaws Committee, feel that the proposed change would not be, “…encouraging and supportive of sailors of Hobie Cat Sailboats,” but would be encouraging and supportive to F-18 racers.
The Bylaw as written:
c. To support and maintain the one-design racing features of the Hobie Cat sailboat.
Violation:
We, The Bylaws Committee, believe that this proposal does not support "one-design racing features of the Hobie Cat sailboat." It promotes F-18 racing.


The Bylaw as written:
f. To provide advisory jurisdiction over activities sponsored by members, Fleets and Divisions of the association.
Violation:
We, The Bylaws Committee, feel that due to the vague nature of the proposal, certain items would need to be addressed for compliance. For example, if the proposal were to pass, are we going to require that F-18s built by other manufacturers to join and support their local Hobie Fleets and the HCA in order to allow the class to have, “advisory jurisdiction over activities?”
We feel that a big part of HCA and its Bylaws are to foster HCA’s solid, international infrastructure, Divisions and Fleets, supported by both HCA members and HCC. We feel that the proposal does not address this point enough, and therefore feel that it is in conflict with the Bylaws.
The proposal does not address the fact that the HCC donates a substantial amount of financial support to the class, and there are no provisions to require Performance Catamarans, AHPC and other F-18 manufacturers to support the class as well. We feel that if F-18s built by other manufacturers are not explicitly required to be active in their fleets and divisions, then there will be a gap in the member, fleet, division, class, structure, therefore severing the HCA’s “advisory” role.
The Bylaw as written:
h. To foster and promote public interest in the sport of Hobie Cat sailing.
Violation:
We, The Bylaws committee, feel that the proposal does not, “foster and promote public interest in the sport of Hobie Cat sailing”, it fosters and promotes public interest in F-18 sailing.
The Bylaw as written:
j. To support the manufacturers and dealers in the promotion of Hobie Cat sailing and the quality production of one design class Hobie Cat sailboats.
Violation:
We, the Bylaws Committee, believe that the proposal would completely violate this point. For the Hobie sailboat dealers that only sell the Hobie brand, allowing other manufactured F-18s to race would not support them at all. The entire HCA structure, from Fleet to Division and on up to the international level, receive tremendous amounts of support from their local dealers.
We, The Bylaws Committee feel that the proposal would not, “support the manufacturers and dealers in the promotion of Hobie Cat sailing.”
Recommendation by the Bylaws committee:
We, The Bylaws Committee, believe that due to the fact that the F-18 has a long-standing and very successful history in Europe, Australia, South America, and many other parts of the world, a note should be made, and HCA should address it. The F-18 is definitely a growing fleet here in the US and we should take a proactive approach to get catamaran sailing, in whatever form, back into the mainstream consciousness.

We, The Bylaws Committee recommend that due to the vague nature of the written proposal, and the indisputable violations of the Bylaws, that the board cannot vote on it in good conscience.
We, the Bylaws Committee, realize that there may be a provision already in place to accomplish what the proposal is stating in a less politically charged manner; and which does not violate the Bylaws. The "3 open class regattas per year for new events" rule, which, we cannot find the exact text for, should be explored as a compromise that may allow F-18s to race on our racecourse. We feel that the F-18 class could assemble themselves and approach the organizing authority of any of these “Open Class” regattas and ask for a start, therefore, taking the blanket statement that, 'other F18s can race with us' from burdening those HCA race organizers that don't want F-18s to race with them for whatever reason.
We, The Bylaws Committee, feel that most fleets that are organizing events through yacht clubs would be happy to add an F-18 start to one of their “3 open events” if the F-18 class approached them. This would take the burden away from the HCA sanctioned race organizers and require the F-18 class to do some legwork; therefore, if some local criteria needed to be met, the race organizers would be able to discuss them with the F-18 class. We feel that if F-18s built by other manufacturers want to race, it is up to their class to take organizational responsibility to get out on the water, and not leave it up to the HOBIE Class Association to organize them. We feel that it is not in the spirit of the HCA Bylaws to organize F-18 racing.
We, The Bylaws Committee, feel that this is the best solution to eliminate the upcoming, politically charged vote on this proposal that will surely result in a black eye to the class from one side or the other.


Finally the existing class policy that passed in 2008
---------------------------------------------------------------

HCA Ranking System Proposal

Proposed by Bob Merrick and Chris Wessels

Proposal:

Results from the following types of events shall count towards the HCA Regional Rakings.

1- All events in which the HCA and/or an associated HCA Division and/or HCA fleet is the Organizing Authority. These events shall be HCA One-Design events. An HCA One-Design events is an event that conforms to the HCA One-Design policy. An explanation of this policy is available on the HCA website.

2- Up to three additional events in each HCA Division in which the Organizing Authority is not affiliated with the HCA. These events are subject to the following conditions.
Each Hobie Class (i.e. Hobie 16 or Hobie 20) in which ranking points will be awarded must

a) have at least five boats competing.
b) have a separate, one-design start.
c) compete using Hobie Class rules.

For an event to qualify under option 2 the Division Chair in which the event is to be held shall make a request by contacting the HCA Chair for approval prior to the event. This should be done 3-6 months ahead of time so that all sailors can be properly notified.
Results should be sent to the HCA scorekeeper from an official associated with the event.
All individuals scored in the HCA Regional Ranking must be HCA members.

Reason:
Introducing Option 2 events will help Divisions that don't currently host HCA One-Design regattas pick a few events in which to focus participation as a one-design fleet. It will also give these Divisions an incentive to host a few HCA One-Design events so that sailors can count a full five events in the ranking.

In the more active Divisions this will work to get good turnout at select multi-class events which is good exposure for the Hobie Class.


---------------------------------------------------------

And you can find a copy of the HCA bylaws at

http://www.hcana.hobieclass.com/default.asp?MenuID=Class_Info/10817/0/

Still not sure how an internal HCA policy recommendation from a volunteer committee makes its way on the forum.Maybe we should have just posted our recommendation here as opposed to replying to the HCA Chair.

I didn't think it would be a problem. I'll take it down if you like. People are just so prone to getting the facts wrong when they don't have them I figured better to just get it out there. Also if Dan has them it's probably going around on e-mail anyway.

Personally I would like to see the whole post disappear(title and all).I know Jeremy and Donna put a lot of thought and effort into the recommendation.Not sure they need there efforts critiqued on this forum.The way I see it is the Bylaws Committee is just a pawn in the overall plan to stall the decision.

So, the ruling should be secret and thereby unable to be criticized (and thereby not responsible to it's constituents)? That exhibits ALL the qualities I look for in a leadership organization who's leadership are elected. People should feel responsible for their decisions and take ownership for them. If it was the right decision, no big deal. If it was the wrong one then it causes strife then it probably should have.

2009 Ditch




j

Whoa, no need to get nasty here by anyone. We have people screaming about the proposal being a bylaws breaker and others saying its not, so the right thing to do according to me, is to have the duly appointed bylaws committee made up of 4 people from geographic diverse parts of the US to review it and give me their assessment. Which they did. I could give a crap who reads this, its what has happened. Now, we'll send this recommendation and the proposal to the board for them to decide if they want to either A. Rewrite the bylaws to accomodate this B. Not rewrite the bylaws and accomodate this C. Say NO thanks to the whole thing. I am glad you're all here, I just don't know how this **** makes it to the street so fast, I haven't even REALLY read the results myself yet!
Lay off the bylaws committee too, they did what was asked of them and did it well.

Long Beach 2009

First of all, the recommendation of the HCA Bylaws Committee was not a secret. Posting it on a public forum by a disgruntled member of the "losing" faction is poor form.

Secondly, this forum's members represent [size:26pt]a very small percentage of the HCA-NA Bylaws Committee and the HCA-NA Board of Directors' constituents.[/size]

I could probably count the number of HCA members that regularly post here on two hands. That would be about 1% of our membership.

First, I'm not interested or affected by the outcome. I'm not even questioning how it was derived or whether it was right or wrong. I'm no longer an HCA member and I no longer sail an F18.

While I agree that the underlying premise of the thread was probably to incite an emotion, I don't see anything that was not factual about it other than perhaps a misunderstanding about the inner workings of the HCA organization and the remote possibility that the findings of the bylaw committee may not be the final word.

I'm NOT taking any stance with regard to the outcome or how it was derived.

What I do find distasteful is the notion that such findings and ruling should be kept private for the sole reason that the people that made them don't have to suffer criticism. That's not how public democratic organizations should work. Publicly chastising the messenger instead of dealing with the message is also poor form.

There's too much emotion in here...Jake out.

I really like that there is a lively discussion. I do not like where it has gone. I am in no way trying to bash the Hobie Class, they have been very good to me. Rather, I am trying to light a fire under the Formula 18s to get our own things happening. I also do not like that I seem to be the bad guy…really not trying to be.

I really appreciate the efforts of those in the Hobie Class trying to make change. I was an officer in the Hobie class and know what it is like to make any kind of waves. This issue would be a big one.

Since getting involved in the Formula 18s I have been trying to promote Formula 18 sailing outside of the Hobie platform. There have been too many F-18 sailors looking for the HCA-NA to help get them on the water. On the West Coast F-18s are sailing with support of Hobie Cat Co. but without asking for too much help from the Hobie Class. On the flip side the F-18s and A-Cats are helping keep alive invitations for other classes in Hobies to sail in a couple of YC regattas to help their cause. Most of us were once H16, H17 or TheMightyHobie18 sailors. Each year at my club there is another discussion about getting increasingly strict with the qualifications.

I am trying to get the Formula 18 sailors in the U.S. to be more active as a class in themselves. Get our own events. I think the best approach is to work with the Yacht Clubs. I see F-18s getting more exposure and interest in the class by mixing it up with other kinds of boats at such events. I take a lot of people for an evening sail that saw us racing on the same regatta as they were on some other boat.

Later,
Dan

I’m not quite sure if the “disgruntled member of the ‘losing’ faction” is me or Dan. Anyway if someone wants me to delete my post just ask. I’ll delete it. I just hate to see these forum discussions spin out of control when no one knows what the heck they are talking about. At least now we all know what’s being discussed. We already have claims of lies and inaccuracies even with it all out in the open. Imagine if it wasn’t. Anyway, like I said, just ask.
So… you didn’t think I could go this long without expressing my opinion did you?
I sent the following to the Board of Directors (of which I am still a member, by the way) last week.


Dear HCA Board of Directors

It was interesting to listen in on the discussion last night and it's great to see that there is a clear line of communication between the class leadership and local sailors. Our class certainly has some work to do going forward and there were lots of good points made about how best to do that.

Personally I think that accepting this proposal will help our organization in the long run as we transform into a smaller class after more than half of our one-design boats have been discontinued. While I think that inviting Formula 18's to some of our events, as a guest fleet, is a good idea I don't think that we should be doing it in such a way as to require a change in our bylaws. By changing our bylaws to accommodate F18's we would be bringing an F18 fleet into the Hobie Class as a part of the class association. Formula 18 sailors already have their own class association as do we and there is no need or desire to combine the two organizations. In fact the IHCA has final approval over any bylaws changes we make and you can be sure that they would not allow such a change.

There is however a benefit to be had by the two organizations working together so that regatta attendance can be maintained at a level that allows the events to remain viable. In fact this is exactly how every Regional Hobie Class outside of North America operates. No part of the HCA or IHCA bylaws prohibits this.

While there is a need for the Hobie Class to keep its regattas viable by increasing the number of participants it is clear that we don't want to go back to the open class problems that we had in the past. I think that inviting the Formula 18 class to events and stopping there is a perfect middle ground opportunity for us to maintain viable events. The fact that the Hobie Cat Company manufactures two boats to the F18 rule makes this a natural partnership.

In my view this partnership would be in the best interest of the Hobie Class and I believe that it already conforms to our current bylaws. I have spent many hours reviewing our bylaws first as a member of the bylaws committee and later as the HCA Chair and most recently with regards to this proposal. I can assure you there is no conflict.

Sincerely,
Bob Merrick
Past HCA Chair