| Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: Acat230]
#221849 10/18/10 08:10 AM 10/18/10 08:10 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,021 Australia macca
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Posts: 1,021 Australia | Macca,
I'll put a break in the exchange between you and Wayne. In the test video, it looks like it's a bit too easy to get a "wheelie" with the boat which while cool to watch, does not seem fast in a straight line. Our experience with the curved boards in the A-Class is to fine tune to get just enough lift to keep the bows up but not much more. Some of the A-Cats are using trunks that allow adjustment of the daggerboard fore and aft rake for different conditions.
It looks like you are always sailing with the windward board at least half up both upwind and downwind. Towards the end of the video, there is a shot of the boat sailing upwind on port tack with the leeward board up about 4-6 inches. Do you think the boards may have too much lift potential (like they experienced with the first iteration for the M-20)? Just curious if there might be more fine tuning.
There is still a lot to be learned about curved daggerboards for sure.
Bob Hodges A-Class USA 230 Bob, Its not too easy to get the boat to foil in the extreme, it takes a specific set of circumstances controlled by the sailors in order to make the boat do that trick. In racing conditions the crew have total control over the behaviour and the boat just simply goes faster than you could expect a boat to go. The windward board will generate lift on the windward side and aid hull flying, so its good to have it down when you want to get the hull up, but after that its quicker to have the board up a little to reduce the windward hull lift. | | | Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: macca]
#221851 10/18/10 08:14 AM 10/18/10 08:14 AM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger
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Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn | are the dagger trunks on the new Nacra curved, or are they a big empty box that allows for the curvature of the board?
I'm boatless.
| | | Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: macca]
#221853 10/18/10 08:22 AM 10/18/10 08:22 AM |
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 893 waynemarlow
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Posts: 893 | Wayne, you can think what you like, but its pretty stupid to try and tell me the component cost breakdown of developing and building these things. I know because I have been involved from concept to production. You are making assumptions without any practical application or first hand knowledge.
Now thats another rash statement, without knowing my history I might just have a bit more knowledge than what you think, have a look at http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=212505&page=1 | | | Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: Acat230]
#221857 10/18/10 08:36 AM 10/18/10 08:36 AM |
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 602 Wilmington,NC Dlennard
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Posts: 602 Wilmington,NC | Macca,
I'll put a break in the exchange between you and Wayne. In the test video, it looks like it's a bit too easy to get a "wheelie" with the boat which while cool to watch, does not seem fast in a straight line. Our experience with the curved boards in the A-Class is to fine tune to get just enough lift to keep the bows up but not much more. Some of the A-Cats are using trunks that allow adjustment of the daggerboard fore and aft rake for different conditions.
It looks like you are always sailing with the windward board at least half up both upwind and downwind. Towards the end of the video, there is a shot of the boat sailing upwind on port tack with the leeward board up about 4-6 inches. Do you think the boards may have too much lift potential (like they experienced with the first iteration for the M-20)? Just curious if there might be more fine tuning.
There is still a lot to be learned about curved daggerboards for sure.
Bob Hodges A-Class USA 230 Bob, The F20 boards can go under the boat more than the A providing more lift than the A boards. You have to get pretty far back on the boat to make it wheelie. Wayne, You know they make a PM button so you and Andrew can have your disagreement offline and the rest of us don't have to wade through all your post to see what is going on in this thread. | | | Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: waynemarlow]
#221862 10/18/10 09:14 AM 10/18/10 09:14 AM |
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,921 Michigan PTP
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Posts: 2,921 Michigan | Macca only does things to raise publicity, a PM message would be wasted he probably should "buy an ad" really... however, it is a new design that we are all interested in to some extent. The price of replacement parts is important. I suppose when a boat costs close to 30k then it is understood everything will be more expensive- akin to the the 200k car that gets 5mpg. If you can afford the car you can afford the gas. | | | Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: PTP]
#221865 10/18/10 09:37 AM 10/18/10 09:37 AM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | Macca only does things to raise publicity, a PM message would be wasted he probably should "buy an ad" really... however, it is a new design that we are all interested in to some extent. The price of replacement parts is important. I suppose when a boat costs close to 30k then it is understood everything will be more expensive- akin to the the 200k car that gets 5mpg. If you can afford the car you can afford the gas. Macca didn't start this thread, Mike Krantz did. Why are there F-16 sailors chafing at the bit to give him a hard time. Thinking of trading up or do you have some kind of envy or agenda? Ye doth protest too much. I like having a factory insider willing to come on here and give us the scoop, sales spiel or not. Wayne, By your comment about Pm's ,it rather appears you want this in the public eye ,not Macca.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#221869 10/18/10 09:51 AM 10/18/10 09:51 AM |
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 602 Wilmington,NC Dlennard
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Posts: 602 Wilmington,NC | Macca only does things to raise publicity, a PM message would be wasted he probably should "buy an ad" really... however, it is a new design that we are all interested in to some extent. The price of replacement parts is important. I suppose when a boat costs close to 30k then it is understood everything will be more expensive- akin to the the 200k car that gets 5mpg. If you can afford the car you can afford the gas. Macca didn't start this thread, Mike Krantz did. Why are there F-16 sailors chafing at the bit to give him a hard time. Thinking of trading up or do you have some kind of envy or agenda? Ye doth protest too much. I like having a factory insider willing to come on here and give us the scoop, sales spiel or not. Wayne, By your comment about Pm's ,it rather appears you want this in the public eye ,not Macca. Thanks Todd That was the same as I was thinking. If you don't have a positive comment to make just keep it to yourself. Andrew has been very helpful with the setup and learning to sail the new boat for us. | | | Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#221874 10/18/10 10:38 AM 10/18/10 10:38 AM |
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 749 Santa Cruz, CA SurfCityRacing
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Posts: 749 Santa Cruz, CA | Macca didn't start this thread...
I like having a factory insider willing to come on here and give us the scoop...
Absolutely. Macca interjected here to set the record straight, and to just give some information. I'm glad when any industry rep does that, it raises the quality of the discussion. If the reps and industry folks don't get out here on the forums, every single freaking time the thread turns into a bunch of garage speculators, whose boat design and industry experience was attained from a gutter boat that they drunkenly built and raced at some regatta. I'd rather hear Macca. j | | | Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#221877 10/18/10 11:18 AM 10/18/10 11:18 AM |
Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 606 Maryland Kris Hathaway
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Posts: 606 Maryland | Why are there F-16 sailors chafing at the bit to give him a hard time. Thinking of trading up or do you have some kind of envy or agenda? Macca has a well documented history of relentlessly (understatement) pissing off many on the F16 forum. What goes around, comes around I guess. Nacra should take note that if anyone else was delivering the message, there probably would not be the animosity as a result of Macca alienating so many.
Kris Hathaway | | | Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: Kris Hathaway]
#221883 10/18/10 11:33 AM 10/18/10 11:33 AM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK Jalani
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Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK | Catsailing Anarchy anyone? Mike, Dave, macca - cool boat, deserves to be BOTY. It's a shame that this thread has degenerated. As Kris said, it's probably a direct result of previous posts by macca elsewhere. Personally, I'd just like us all to pull in the same direction for the benefit of catsailing and not piss on each others choices of boat. There are a lot of monoslug sailors out there to convert!
Last edited by Jalani; 10/18/10 11:39 AM.
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