... you can look from above at Greencom and see what happened
Well, the VirtualEye replay doesn't exactly match the on-boat video, so I'm a little suspect of the sensor data. For instance, VirtualEye shows Aleph turning up into GreenComm and hitting her starboard hull broadside rather then bearing away and catching the inside of her port hull at the rudder post.
What VE does indicate, however, is that GreenComm tried to tack from port to starboard, but went into irons before completing her tack. She then drifted backwards onto port tack again in front of Aleph. GreenComm was moving forward just before contact so she was either on port tack (if she achieved a close-hauled courese), or still tacking (if she was moving forward but above close-hauled). In either case, GreenComm was the keep-clear boat.
At least, that's what the ROW would be if the America's Cup Series was run under the Racing Rules of Sailing - which I don't believe is so.
Regards, Eric
Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: mbounds]
#237841 09/19/1108:19 PM09/19/1108:19 PM
Energy Team flipped pre-start and righted in less than 3 minutes - using a water-start technique. I was impressed.
China Team flipped at the first mark.
Artemis flipped mid-race after what looked like a spectacular save. They went over on the drag of the sails alone.
Terry said water in the hull, as a result of the collision with Greencom, contributed to the capsize. In the replays he has no steerage and he calmly( for Terry) says "we're going"
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
Thanks for the clarification on Annie's name, Matt.
Anyway, replays are awesome. You can definitely see GC tacking from port to starboard just leading up to the collision about 40 seconds before the start.
Also, Oracle Spithill going inside of Oracle Coutts at the first gate is textbook training for sailors and protest committees!
... you can look from above at Greencom and see what happened
Well, the VirtualEye replay doesn't exactly match the on-boat video, so I'm a little suspect of the sensor data. For instance, VirtualEye shows Aleph turning up into GreenComm and hitting her starboard hull broadside rather then bearing away and catching the inside of her port hull at the rudder post.
What VE does indicate, however, is that GreenComm tried to tack from port to starboard, but went into irons before completing her tack. She then drifted backwards onto port tack again in front of Aleph. GreenComm was moving forward just before contact so she was either on port tack (if she achieved a close-hauled courese), or still tacking (if she was moving forward but above close-hauled). In either case, GreenComm was the keep-clear boat.
At least, that's what the ROW would be if the America's Cup Series was run under the Racing Rules of Sailing - which I don't believe is so.
Regards, Eric
If you watch further though, you will see Artemis (not Aleph) is the one that hits GC's inner port stern. GC got beat up by 2 boats pretty quickly (only one of which was really GC's "fault"). Aleph hits GC's starboard hull, and then Aleph sails away. GC then tacks in front of Artemis and fouls Artemis. Artemis then fouls GC by running into them from astern
Last edited by PTP; 09/19/1111:07 PM.
Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: mbounds]
#237860 09/20/1107:58 AM09/20/1107:58 AM
Energy Team flipped pre-start and righted in less than 3 minutes - using a water-start technique. I was impressed.
Have any of you tried this righting method? It looked like a support boat towed them from the bows and the sail just flew the mast out of the water. Most boat-assists I've seen pull perpendicular to the hulls to right the boat.
It was very impressive to see this monster boat get righted in only minutes and sail on to finish the race. Calm management, either by cat crew or support boat.
Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: PTP]
#237861 09/20/1108:17 AM09/20/1108:17 AM
If you watch further though, you will see Artemis (not Aleph) is the one that hits GC's inner port stern. GC got beat up by 2 boats pretty quickly (only one of which was really GC's "fault"). Aleph hits GC's starboard hull, and then Aleph sails away. GC then tacks in front of Artemis and fouls Artemis. Artemis then fouls GC by running into them from astern
Ah! That explains it. I didn't realize that GreenComm got hit twice so I stopped watching the replay too soon to see the contact with Artemis.
FWIW, I think you have the analysis right too. At about time -40, GreenComm (tacking) fouls Aleph and Aleph cannot reasonably keep clear. At t -25, GreenComm (tacking) fouls Artemis and Artemis heads up to avoid contact. At t -20, GreenComm completes her tack and pulls away. Artemis ducks behind to pass under GreenComm, but GreeComm heads up slightly and stalls. Artemis cannot bear away quickly enough and hits GreenComm's port hull. Artemis might argue that GreenComm changed course and did not give them room to keep clear, but I don't believe that's a strong argument. The crux of the issue is did GreenComm compel Artemis to break a rule, or did Artemis own action lead to the collision. In my opinion, I think Artemis simply ducked a bit too close.
That is, however, a really close call and the umpires may have seen it differently. Also, do the America's Cup Series rules allow for offsetting penalties in fleet racing? If so they might have declared the penalties cancelled between GreenComm and Artemis, and penalized GreenComm for her earlier foul of Aleph. They didn't say, so we may never know.
It would be nice if the coverage showed the reason for a penalty, as well as the fact that one was assessed. Then the commentators wouldn't have to speculate, and the viewers wouldn't be left guessing.
for anyone who was at Plymouth, was there any chance for the average person to interact with the teams and get some autographs, or is that strictly forbidden?
I was looking at one of the VIP packages for San Diego, and the prices weren't too extreme. Is anyone familar with the area?
Eric, I also agree with those comments (and yours). After watching the WHOLE thing, they got to the complete replay at the end of the race, and things are easier to see (especially with the virtual replay, although even that was a litte confusing).
CG must have felt like a punching bag. The second collision was probably a result of the first, since they were probably still assessing damage and not really thinking about racing at that point (major damage to the starboard hull from collision #1).
I'm guessing that the penalty was from the first collision (they just said it was a port/starboard penalty, who knows if that was a guess or if they're being fed that info from the umps).
All in all, great coverage, but definitely room for improvement (even some minor tweaks would go a long way). Where can we send our comments?
Mike
Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: mbounds]
#237895 09/20/1101:10 PM09/20/1101:10 PM
for anyone who was at Plymouth, was there any chance for the average person to interact with the teams and get some autographs, or is that strictly forbidden?
I was looking at one of the VIP packages for San Diego, and the prices weren't too extreme. Is anyone familar with the area?
There was nothing formally organised. The workshop and storage areas understandably were out of bounds to visitors as boats were being craned in and all sorts of work was going on. The public area was quite close though. I talked to several team members as they came and went but only because I know them personally and they came and talked. Maybe the VIP package provides some extras?
Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: jkkartz1]
#237961 09/20/1104:25 PM09/20/1104:25 PM
On orcacle racing site shows a fan getting autographs of both O4 and O5 skips. Lucky me... I will be travelling from Canada to Oceanside CA around mid Nov, San Diego only 30 minute drive! You can easily find me, I'll be in shorts and be very pale.
Re: AC 45s at Plymouth
[Re: Chris_A]
#238133 09/22/1109:53 AM09/22/1109:53 AM
I can't help the grin I get watching this video of some of the worlds greatest 9 knot sailors adjusting to the speed and tactics and technique required of a boat that sails faster than the wind. I'm not sure the embed link will work so I've posted a link. They look like I felt after year 5 of my catamaran sailing experience.