| Rules question (rule 18) #77790 06/16/06 10:25 AM 06/16/06 10:25 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 833 St. Louis, MO, Mike Hill OP
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Posts: 833 St. Louis, MO, | This pertains to Rule 18 (rounding or passing marks)
Here is the rule:
18.2.e OVERLAP RIGHTS [color:"red"] If there is reasonable doubt that a boat obtained or broke an overlap in time, it shall be presumed that she did not.[/color] If the outside boat is unable to give room when an overlap begins, rules 18.2(a) and 18.2(b) do not apply.
I'm confused about the highlighted section. One boat may have doubts that she obtained an overlap while another might have doubts that she broke an overlap. It seems like this doesn't really spell out who should do the avoiding if there is doubt about the overlap.
Mike Hill N20 #1005
| | | Re: Rules question (rule 18)
[Re: Mike Hill]
#77791 06/16/06 01:34 PM 06/16/06 01:34 PM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | I've always read this as "if you are claiming an inside overlap, you need to prove it at the protest" "if you are claiming you broke the overlap, you need to prove it at the protest"
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Rules question (rule 18)
[Re: scooby_simon]
#77792 06/16/06 02:13 PM 06/16/06 02:13 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 833 St. Louis, MO, Mike Hill OP
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Posts: 833 St. Louis, MO, | I've always read this as "if you are claiming an inside overlap, you need to prove it at the protest" "if you are claiming you broke the overlap, you need to prove it at the protest" So one boat claims she has overlap, the other boat claims she broke overlap in the same incident. I don't see which boat the burden of proof is on?
Mike Hill N20 #1005
| | | Re: Rules question (rule 18)
[Re: Mike Hill]
#77793 06/16/06 07:21 PM 06/16/06 07:21 PM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | I've always read this as "if you are claiming an inside overlap, you need to prove it at the protest" "if you are claiming you broke the overlap, you need to prove it at the protest" So one boat claims she has overlap, the other boat claims she broke overlap in the same incident. I don't see which boat the burden of proof is on? If you ask for water, you prove you have the right for it. If you deny the right to water, you prove you had the right to deny it. One will have to come first (either the hail "no water" or "water") So approaching the mark: Inside boat calls for "water" (and it's a little tight) then you give it and protest them and they then need to prove they had the right to it. OR Outside boat calls "no water" (and it's a little tight) then you duck them and protest them for not giving it, they then need to prove that there was no overlap
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Rules question (rule 18)
[Re: scooby_simon]
#77794 06/19/06 07:51 AM 06/19/06 07:51 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 833 St. Louis, MO, Mike Hill OP
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Posts: 833 St. Louis, MO, | One thing I've been told by many sailors is that when the outside boat calls for no room and you think it's close you should turn toward them immediately and if you touch then you should protest because you had overlap.
I don't agree with this approach because you should always avoid contact but I've been told this by many seasoned sailors on big boats.
Sometimes people don't understand that the spinnaker counts if it's overlaped against the other boats hull while the hulls are not overlapped.
Mike Hill N20 #1005
| | | Re: Rules question (rule 18)
[Re: Mike Hill]
#77797 06/21/06 02:54 PM 06/21/06 02:54 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
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Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA | One thing I've been told by many sailors is that when the outside boat calls for no room and you think it's close you should turn toward them immediately and if you touch then you should protest because you had overlap.
I don't agree with this approach because you should always avoid contact but I've been told this by many seasoned sailors on big boats.
Turning down is pretty much your only option unless you are planning to do a peal at the mark. You are not turning down to force the issue and make contact you are turning down because you cant't stay inside and the outside boat said you were clear.
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
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