Affordable racing
Mordern designs
Good Marketing. All manufactures working to promote the F18 class.
Option of home build, buy of the shelf or a bit of both.


I think you will find that there is not much of a speed difference in the 2 NACRAs. Also all the top guys will buy a new boat every couple of seasons regardless of OD or formula. Looking at the F18 Market in OZ the devaluation of F18s seem to be on par with most other classes and the NACRA does not seem to suffer much more if any to the other manufactures. After the Oz worlds though, I think you will find market value drop significantly as there will be a lot of ex charter moats on the market.

Whilst in theroy, resale values should drop substantialy, the popularity and demand for the boats help off set this. I also believe the weight of the boat assists with keeping the racing close and ensures very little speed difference in designs.

Hi Steve,

I think the formula thing is great for cat racing. It is going nuts but I suspect most of the growth has come from existing sailors from other classes.

To grow sailing as a sport, IMHO we need to make it the "cool" thing to do. To achieve that, we need to have boats and attire that look fantasitc to non-sailors. Most modern designs combined with some well designed graphics (subtle is the key here) will make the boat come alive in a photo.

If you want proof of this, look at motor racing, football or virtually all successful sports in the world. The one thing they all have in common is that they are photogenic which helps them be "cool".

Hobiecat have come closest to this in the 70's and 80's with the colored hulls and sails. These days achieving similar results with modern graphics is cheaply achievable but most boat owners don't bother.

Tiger Mike

The new boat does not have to be much faster.. just faster.
Is it the top guys or the top boats winning as it is a self fulfilling prophecy??... Not everyone can run out and spend 30K on a beach cat every two years so how do you encourage the new comer who knows his lower price buy in is not only tired but out dated as well?
In the end it seems to be the sail maker/designer with big sponsorship who cleans up most of these events at a World level.
My comment is not to say that either attitude is right or wrong, just that big fleets and World wide acceptance seem to go with classic one design boat fleet.. not those which change every year.
Perhaps, if the box rule is aggreed not to be changed that the companies have five years to perfect their desgins and settle on those molds.... Allows for some real gains in boat design and creates the possiblity of large fleets.

That is really not true. On these spinnaker boats you really need to know how to sail well or all is just wasted money.

Wouter

Correct, not everybody can or a willing to invest this kind of money, and if they are then they usually also invest in attending off shore championships.

We will always have our guns that will invest and compete at the top level as well as enthusiastic club sailors doing likewise. However, in order to grow our sport, we should also encourage people to be realistic. You don’t have to go out and buy the biggest, baddest, fastest equipment. Just by a boat, get out and compete and just enjoy what you are doing. For most, it is not a job but a hobby…….. So just get out and enjoy.

The guns will turn over their boats and in doing so, they are supplying the market with good quality, cheap second hand boats. Further more, we should also encourage new sailors to get in and race their cheap, old second hand boats. If it was not for the $1000 specials, I and many others would not be sailors but would have pursued other sports. It was after I become addicted that my problem grew. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You are so right. It is the only way I have been able to afford to sail, I am a back yard banger and I bloody love it. I appreciate the conversation, thanks.

Steven, To grow the sport of cat RACING you are missing some steps.

Premise... They like the idea or experience of sailing... So

First... you have to get sailors to like a style of sailing thats wet, physical, and requires some brains.

THEN you have to get them to like sailing with other boats around in close quarters so they become comfortable with their boat handling and don't think they will hit someone.

THEN you have to get them to like racing, the competition, the rules and the camraderie to put up with the hassle of moving the boat and going to a regatta.

THEN you have to get them used to the idea that race boats break.. because you push them hard so you need to spend some money regularly to keep it up. How much depends on the level you race at.

THEN you get a shot at getting them into your formula or one design class! (the subject of endless debate)

Which boat and being realistic about what they want out of cat racing is hardly the tough issue for getting new racers on the water!

Warbird,

when were you at the RAYC? If it was in the last 3-4 months I think you were looking at only F18s as there hasn't been a Tornado there since the end of summer (Aaron's boats are both offshore at present and the other boat was taken home because it wasn't being used). A race ready F18 and Tornado have almost exactly the same set of fittings (with the exception of the T's more complicated main sheet). The difference between the boats you were looking at (assuming it was back when there were Ts there)was more likely due to the fact that the F18s are all less than 18 months old and are being used at least once a week while the Ts are unfortunately a dying class in NZ and the boats are much older and rarely sailed.

With regards to devaluation everything devalues but with proper maintenence it can be minimised. We've just put our 18 month old Tiger on the market to try and stimulate growth in our fleet and while its gone down in value and the replacement value has gone up, we think its worthwhile in order to help new crews into the class. We typically look for a little bit of sponsorship to help minimise the hit to our hip pocket when we do this.

With respect... I do know the difference between the boats. : )
One is a classic and the other is the weekend warriors overweight flavour of the month. I visit often and do not remember which time I made this observation. The 18s were in a different area to what I thought was the Olympic T. Arons boat has the Line seven livery on side. I believed it was the Olympic boat because it has been on TV several times in the last six months but I do NOT know it was the same one.
The Olympic boat had only small rings..maybe dog bones, but I think just rings, no late model handle like the new one many people are going for with handle in middle of wire loop covered in plastic or whatever. (which I have on order)
The comment was based on the fact that every part of that Olympic boat was paired down to do a job and NONE of it was flashy or "new". The F18, being new tend to be a little more like a top sedan with electric windows. While Tornados might not be enjoying the growth of 18s let's face it the Tornado is the OLYMPIC racing boat with high end result world wide while the 18s might be serious racers the ethic and attitude will be nothing like two Olympic medal winners working a campagn to take the top cat sailing medal on the planet.

I stand by my general comment, winners tend to have more simple boats which display serious work ethic and commitment to function and weight considderations. The Olympic boat also showed, to my eyes, a boat running most days, not once a week.

I am left wondering what your point really was..do you just want to suggest that Tornados are out and F18 are in? That maybe I can't tell a mass produced 18 from a thirty year Olympic classic?

Any squad that grows cats is great in my eyes but not if it relies on knocking another.

If I had the dosh I would go strait out and buy an F18 by the way but I would know I had a Commadore V8 and not a formula 1.

I wasn't trying to make a point of comparison at all, I was just surprised that you had "just been" to the club and compared the two when I knew the Ts had been gone for quite a while.

I'm definately not a big T knocker (I just don't have the budget to sail one) in fact my crew and I worked closely with Aaron and Mark (his then crew) to try and get all Auckland's Ts to move to our club so we could all sail together.

I am however confused as to what you think the difference is between the setup of a T and F18 (or F16 for that matter) when it comes to the fittings we all use almost exactly the same gear in the same places.

Side note: While you know the difference, you'd be surprised how many people have asked me if our boat is a Tornado.

Thanks for taking my comments openly.
I can only suggest you have a closer look at their boat next time. Not that the systems are different but the size and presentation of those systems. Seriously I think the word Sparten covers it. There is nothing about that Tornado that says plush, fat and new or "latest" and there is plenty that says that about the new F18s. I am not saying that is a good or bad thing but while the Tornado may cost more the F18 looks more pricey, and shiney.
My comment was "general" and no offence was meant.
I liked some of the sponsor decals on the F18s by the way.
If they don't race with you guys who do they race against? I would have thought fleet racing would be huge for them.

Aaron races with us when he's in town. Brett the only other really active T in Auckland sails out of Takapuna (where the 2008 worlds will be held). Its really unfortunate that the NZ T fleet is really aging and as far as I'm aware only 2 crews have upgraded to the carbon masts. I suspect that a lot of the "sparten" look comes from the fact that their tramp is 2 foot wider and 1 foot longer, so there is a lot more room for the same amount of gear.

Well, let's aggree to differ on that and roll on 2008! : )
The guy I bought my A mast off had just prchased a carbon foam mast for over $6,000 and I can see all but the sickest unit baulking at that.

Looking at the factory F18s v's the good Tornadoes that are on our shore or who have visited...... The Ts have had the flashier systems.

I have found that a factory F18 is pretty agricultural compared to the custom layouts of the Ts. We have and continue to modify our Capricorn with simular systems as the Euro T sailors are using.

All the top boats, both T, F18 or any other make usually have undergone a custom lay out with a strong emphasis on clean, minimalistic, user freindly systems that are both light and reliable.

Most if not all boat manufactures compramise some quality for the sake of $$$$ when producing their product. Personaly I would like to have the option of having my boat fitted out from the factory with the best of everything or without fittings and lines for a reduced price.

Ain't that the truth !

Wouter

This one would certainly get my attention:

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2006/images/mermaid1.jpg

Lovely hair. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />