Thanks brian, id forgotten to take the rudders off, im currently using hobie 16 epo rudders as my wooden mossie rudders broke a couple months back, and the hobie rudders do weigh quite a bit (i just weighed one and it came in at close to 4kg!, the old wooden rudders weigh something like 600g each), so i may need to get some good rudders and boards (the boards are big and heavy as well 12 inches wide, 43inches long with circular bottoms, old design, and weigh 3kgs each, though they werent on the hulls when i weighed them).