Hi Keith and Mary,

I am not directly addressing either of you. I am addressing the points of view that you described (and I also recognize) sailors having.

Of course the planning process is run like a buisness!Keith, I agree with your point of view and all of the specifics that you do to run the event... Up to where you asign the risks of running the event.

I don't think you treat the racers as customers and give them privleges that a customer has... eg... "customer is always right". or Refunds or returns accepted with recipt.
I do agree that the NOR should state... refunds are not given for the sake of clarity.

I still think you guys are avoiding my point... Clubs are co operatives and the members have a shared responsibility.

Here is an actual situation, The C100 was devasted a few years ago by a microburst which trashed at least 5 and maybe 7 boats on the beach 12 hours before the start. All of the fixed expenses were already shot Preregistration was required and the budget adjusted for the 30 + boats. BJ the PRO, discussed refunding cash to sailors with the club leadership and we agreed to absorb the loss (can't say we thought about all of the ramifications on the beach that Saturday morning) Personally, I advised BJ to refund the cash because I felt sorry for the sailors losses)

I recognized that I was off base after the fact. I saw that some sailors saw this scene as that they were entitled to a refund, (Consumer model) .... OTHERS saw this turn of events as a club member, realized the fixed costs the club incurred and declined the refund. They recongized that if the club lost its shirt... the whole endover could crash .... (Somebodies credit card had paid for the beer, hotel rooms etc etc). We lost money that year and raised the dues next year to stay afloat.
In retrospect, we probablly should not have offered to refund the entry fee since we in fact ran the race.

Racing clubs are not just non profit entities... they are Co-operatives which also don't make a profit...I see a fundamental difference here. It's not capitalisim... its much more socialistic... (flame suit on)

I think that last years Lighthouse race is a perfect case in point of why we need a preregistration system in place. We did our best to guess turnout, and the weather set us back. Had we had a preregistration system in place with a 20 dollar premium for registering that day. I think that we probably would have had a bit more turnout, If you have already paid... you might as well go race) and covered our budget. Fortuantely we had the cash to cover the losses.

ps I spoke with NASS prior to the cancellation. The club had not bought the food, liquor or trophies for the party at the time they cancelled. Their fixed costs already spent were relatively low and they decided to absorb them as a club. They cancelled early to make sure they did not loose their shirts.

I just want to stress that membership in a racing club has responsibilites. As a member of a cooperative club, it's not just a SAM's discount card that you use when you attend regattas in your area. I think that this philosophy guides you in handeling refunds and disasters.

Another example of the Co Op nature of yacht club is the CBYRA organization. You don't have to be a member of CBYRA to race in their member clubs events... You do have to belong to a member club. Member clubs must be organized to run races for their membership and must also invite the larger community to participate in these races.