Thank you Mark,

Also, I much rather have a new sailors sail both boats and decide against the F16's than have him buy another boat only to learn of the F16's after. The only thing I want is that new sailor knows about the F16's and before they buy. The rest is up to personal likes and the composition of local fleets.

In answering the question put forward by solowildman :

"What think of Nacra F-17 and standard 17???? "

Standard I-17 is either the sloop rigged Aus I-17 (lighter as well) or the EU I-17 that is a pure singlehander. Than you have the I-17R that is popular in USA with a much taller mast and much larger mainsail area and that is nearly exclusively sailed singlehanded although a jib kit is available for it. All have 17 sq.mtr. spis. The F17 is the US I-17 platform with the R-rig but with a larger spinnaker sail. The name suggests a Formula class setup but from what is available as class rules it appears to be a single manufacturer one-desig class with a F-name. In Europe The Texel rating system also recognizes the I-17XL (not the same as I-17R) and I-17 standard with jib (not the same as Aus I-17 as that one is lighter in overall weight.

I-17R/F17 seems to be popular around the great lakes. Sails fast in light airs but is rumoured to loose "some" when the winds increases. This also refers to the ease of sailing. At least that is what I was told by some I-17 Sailors. Also there is an ongoing debate on its overall weight hence the fact that it is not advertised. The US version should be lighter than the EU versions as measured by Texel though. But still heavier then the Aus versions.

In Asia several Aus I-17's (sloops + spi) race Taipan F16's. Great fun, but some bitching is going on about ratings. The F16's sailors seem very happy to go head to head with them, probably because they feel that they have an edge.

Anyways the Aus I-17 is about 125 kg ready to sail sloop + spi.
I seem to rememeber it had asome 13.9 sq. mtr. main a 4.25 mtr jib and a 17 sq. mtr. spi
The EU and US versions are heavier by at least 15 kg's, sometimes by 30 kg's depending on which source you believe.
Both the EU and Aus version use 8.5 mtr mast while the US version has a 9.1 mtr mast that is made of carbon fibre.
Mainsail area on the US version is 16.44 sq.mtr.
The I-17's are strong around the great lakes.

For comparison.
F16's are the same all over the world and it is a true formula rule set with 3 independent designs and builders
Mast = 8.5 mtr (both carbon and alu masts are allowed and used)
main = 15 sq.mtr.
jib = 3.65 sq. mtr. (when sailing doublehanded)
spi = 17.5 sq.mtr.
weight = 107 kg (ready to sail in sloop+spi setup)
F16 has is strongest in Florida and the states around it. A pocket is in California and several are around the Cheasapeak bay.

From direct racing between the standard 17's and F16's in Asia and Europe will sort of see that the F16's have a definate edge. The comparison between the US 17 versions and the F16's seems to be more comparable. In the latter case the F16 are rating slightly faster by systems like Texel and ISAF and the I-17R is rated slightly faster un USPN. Having said this I must add that USPN rates the F16's WITH spi at the same speed (compared to an F18) as the Australian portmouth yardstick rated the same boat WITHOUT a spi. USPN rated F16's significantly slower than any other rating systems in the world, both measurements based or statistical based. Personally, from comments that were given to me it seems that the US I-17R's are the fastest 17's and they are directly compare to F16's in overall speed. On that the systems seem to agree as all rated both boat very close to one another. Having said this all other systems rate the I-17's much closer to the F18 speeds than USPN.

I hope this helps. And I hope you will forgive me for writing the F16's into this.

My advice test sail boats of both classes and then decide.

Wouter