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it would be a wonderful thing if at all regattas we could sail just against our own classes.... But fact is those days are gone... Where stuck with mixed fleets regardless of preferences, which means using VYC Yardsticks like it or not.


Each to their own, but for me I choose not to 'like it' so I set out to do something about it. I was sick of racing against 2 may be 3 other Ts at local regattas and 7 Ts at National Championships. I therefore moved into a class that will give me the class racing...F-18. Now I can race against 6 to 10 + other F-18s at local weekend regattas with championships seeing 30 to 35 boats with the next Oz titles expected to reach the 50 mark.

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I love your list of sailors but even Glenn finds it hard to sail more than one boat at the same regatta. As far as sailors that are head and shoulders above the rest, it is realy not that long a list but I am not going to start listing them.


Lets look at the fleets from last years Nationals in the F-18 and A Class.

A Class

1 G Ashby
2 S Anderson
3 B Collett
4 T Kirkham
5 D Brewer
6 D Mackenzie
7 M Philpott
8 M Johnston
9 G Hartbour
10 H Sinclair
11 S Scott
12 C Parker
13 S Lewis
14 B Hooper
14 M Vaccari
16 G Vize
17 B McArthur
18 D Ellis
19 S Breadon
20 D Blake
21 K Symonds
22 B Geisker
23 I Walls
24 N Carter
25 L Zylstra
26 B Medlow
27 D Godfrey
28 V Collett
29 N Caldwell
30 D Foran
31 J Dowling
32 G Kilminster
33 G Brown
34 P Sarant
35 P Bradbury
36 Kopp
37 A Vize
38 S Moser
39 M Kopp
40 R Nicholson
41 C Neeskens
42 D Elwers
43 J Goldsmith
44 P Neeskens
45 J Lennon
46 T Cochrane
47 N Rickaros
48 G Patterson
49 M Cowley

Formula 18

1 Glenn Ashby / Tim Kirkham
2 Greg Goodall / Liam Goodall
3 Michael Cook / Andrew Williams
4 Tim Shuwalow / Grant Rogers
5 Nev Thompson / Shamus Stevens
6 Mal Gray / Adrian Fawcett
7 Mark Laruffa / Jesse Dobie
8 Steve Brewin / Gary Gornall
9 Eric Cok / Anja Stoltenborg
10 Michael Cahill / Phil Cavanagh
10 Chris Caldecoat / Mat Fulton
12 Warren Guinea / Dan Williams
13 Chris Dean / Kennuth Hibbert
14 Danny James / C. James
15 Chris Brewin / Richard Brewin
16 Dan Corlett / Zac Seymour
17 Andrew McLeod / Bill Holton
18 Luke McMullen / Adam Beattie
19 Russ McDonald / Luke McDonald
20 Pete Skewes / Kingsly Pursch
20 Nick Green / Ian Wood
22 Rob Stewart / Wade Kruger
23 Jason Farnell / Andrew Hutton
24 Dean Nissen / Shane ?
25 Dave Elliot / C. Munro
26 Andrew McKenzie / Andrew Macpherson
27 Brad Nixon / John Nixon
28 David Bent / Ken McMachon
29 Bob Schahinger / Carina Cartwright
30 Tony Thorne / Leigh Thorne
30 Andrew Holden / John Lizzio
32 Michael Burdack / Mat Kurl
33 Brad Owen / Scott Polchleb
34 Jarrod Wallis / Callan Bunt

Pretty impressive list of sailors with guys who have represented at an International level or won World Championships at the top down to mid fleet.

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I believe the guy's who sailed Mossies with spin. at recent Wildcat regattas are better than the average sailor you seem to be implying they are. However I know for a fact Glenn beats them on V.Y.C. I have no illusions they are that good.


I did not say at all that these 2 Mossie sailors were not good sailors. But look at it in perspective. Just where would they figure in the results of these fleets. Would you say mid fleet. ???? If so, you would expect that the mid fleet to top guys in the F-18 & A Class would be at the top of the fleet in the non International Oz classes such as the Mossie class. Would you say that most of the guys in the lower part of this fleet would be mid fleeting in the Oz Class fleets. Many of these Oz Class fleets also act as feeder classes and have a percentage of the fleet that are quiet green to cat sailing.

Taking all this into account, how would you compare the “AVERAGE” skill levels in these fleets.

For the record also, my definition of an average to good sailor are those who make up the guts of these highly competitive fleets (f18 & A). Very good to Great sailors to me are those who have graduated through classes with excellent results and have move onto representing their country at an International or Olympic level with respectable results. If you look at these 2 classes…… You will see quiet a few past and present representatives as well as top placed finishers to World Champions.

Anyway that is my little rant and I do not mean to offend anybody by what I have said…… This all started with a light humoured comment that I made in another thread after hearing some talk on the beach. I know what to expect form handicap racing and take it for what it is……



Looking at the list of A finishers, it's interesting to see that one sailor who moved from about mid-fleet in T 4.9s is better than mid fleet in As....he's been about there consistently I think.

Also the performance of T4.9 sailors who hop into F18s briefly is pretty good - Cookie and Willy third in the F18 nationals, Cookie and Fabio 10th in the worlds.

If the standard in F18s is so much higher, how can a pair of sailors ranked 2nd and 4th nationally in a "local" class move into F18s, sail the boat once, and then finish 10th at the F18 worlds including a heat win? How can the guys ranked 1st and 4th nationally in T 4.9s move into F18s and finish 3rd if the F18 sailors are so much better?

So maybe the standard is pretty equal in those classes?

And the Mossie guys undoubtably (from what I can see) sail very well compared to the T 4.9s, including pulling off nasty moves like pointing so high they force poor little innocent Taipans to tack away a good position at the boat end of the line and off to the wrong side of the course...... :-( . I get the impression that even thought the kites are pretty new, the Mossie guys know their boats very, very well from many years of experience in the class.