By now, some of you may have heard that the US SAILING Board of Directors approved an Olympic Sailing Committee submission to ISAF that did not include the Tornado as one of the proposed classes for the 2012 Olympic Games. I spent yesterday getting familiar with the process and the politics involved in the long road to select equipment for a Games. This is very early in the process, and the submission made only eight recommendations (six dinghies and two keelboats) with the expectation that an additional two classes would be selected by the Council. Despite this, the exclusion of a multihull from the list is at least troubling...
Before anyone takes aim at the Board of Directors, keep in mind that the Board depends upon the Olympic Sailing Committee to look into these matters and make recommendations that are well thought out and reasoned. Their approval of the OSC's submission was simply a point of order. It is generally well understood, however, that if US SAILING's rep stands up in the Event Committee meeting in Paris this May and the Tornado is not on the list of recommended equipment for the 2012 Games, then multihulls are in serious jeopardy.
The situation is developing quickly since this issue became public yesterday. At a minimum, our current course of action is to stand before the Board this week in Newport and move that the submission be amended to include a multihull class in the recommended equipment. How the Board and the OSC handles this motion will be very telling. In the days leading up to that moment, the alarm bells are ringing and we are talking with those we feel are in a position to both understand the seriousness of the situation and are in a position to vote in favor of the motion. I'll have more info for you soon.
John Williams Multihull Council Chair US SAILING
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: 2012 Olympic Games Equipment issue...
[Re: John Williams]
#100510 03/13/0710:19 AM03/13/0710:19 AM
do you have any links to the proposal? Will other countries (MNAs) be able to influence the process, or is it the OSC that make the proposal and the MNAs just accept/reject it?
Thanks for the heads up.
Re: 2012 Olympic Games Equipment issue...
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#100511 03/13/0710:38 AM03/13/0710:38 AM
Each of the MNAs bring their own recommendations to the Events Committee in May - this is the text of the US SAILING submission:
Quote
2012 OLYMPIC EVENTS
A Submission from US SAILING
Proposal: That, in accordance with Regulation 16.1.1 (b), the following Events are eligible for selection for the 2012 Olympic Regatta:
Single - Handed Dinghy - Men Single - Handed Dinghy - Women Skiff - Men Skiff - Women Double - Handed Dinghy - Men Double - Handed Dinghy - Women Keelboat - Men Keelboat - Women *
* match racing or fleet racing Current Position: No current position.
Reason: 1. These Events provide a natural progression for sailors as they age, broaden their skills and move on to new challenges.
2. Skiffs are exciting and generate media interest and buzz.
3. Keelboats will attract well known sailors, including World Champions from other classes and America’s Cup sailors. These “heroes” will appeal to the media and spectators.
4. The symmetry of Events will increase participation by women.
5. This slate of Events will appeal to a wide range of athletes.
6. This slate of Events is representative of the sport as it is practiced around the World. As a result, it is likely that this slate will increase the number of countries competing in the Olympic Regatta.
NOTE: This Submission is not intended to propose reducing the number of Events to eight. It is envisioned that Council will add two other Events to the list of Events eligible for selection.
I, along with others, suspect that there are similar discussions of dropping the Tornado among the European MNAs. Forewarned is forearmed.
John
Re: 2012 Olympic Games Equipment issue...
[Re: John Williams]
#100512 03/13/0712:18 PM03/13/0712:18 PM
the USA is choosing a skiff for women over the Tornado which is open?
For chris sakes... their is NO grass roots support for skiff sailing in the USA... much less for women's skiff sailors.
Meanwhile.. the women's Hobie 16's have had great turnouts for years and years not to mention numerous regattas around the country for standard racing.
is this just sexist politics?? The usual monohull discrimination towards cats??
Skiffs are SO EXCITING that after 10 years they have managed a small foothold on the west coast. Probably a dozen events a year (as best I remember)! Wow...
Where the hell are our fearless Olympic sailing muckety mucks? Gary Bodie ??? Dean Brenner ???
Oh .... I know... They are out looking for a midget or a kid to pair with Johnny to win the China games!!!
The proper choice would be to make the Tornado for Men, and choose a mulithull for women... (hobie 16 with spin or pick your favorite F16 builder)
This is just so tiresome... at the end of the day... the IOC should just save their money and drop the sport from the games... we would be better off in the sailing community!
My gut tells me that money and proffesional sailing is wrapped up in this fiasco..
The word Corinthian and the philosophy of competition that goes with it should return....
Our sport is best when its not professional, or depending on the "on the water judging" which is needed to catch the cheaters... (see Paige Riley debacle at the OCR)... Let the pros go join the cup teams or the around the world floating billboards...
We currently run our events as Catagory C so that If somebody got sponsorhip... they would not have to pull the junk off their sails and boats... Maybe we should go back to the way it was!
Strike a blow for tradition!
crac.sailregattas.com
Re: 2012 Olympic Games Equipment issue...
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#100513 03/13/0701:48 PM03/13/0701:48 PM
I dont see why we have to have separate classes for women, especially in skiffs and multihulls where they can both compete against each other on an equal basis. Thats one of the great pluses of our sport - one that you would think that ISAF would promote!
Paul
teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: 2012 Olympic Games Equipment issue...
[Re: John Williams]
#100514 03/13/0703:10 PM03/13/0703:10 PM
As John stated, this development is troubling. It confirms that US Sailing is still not in touch with mainstream sailing in this country. It's hard to comprehend why this will not or has not changed. It looks like the boardsailing community is being treated the same and these sailors are certainly the most athletic of all the Olympic classes.
There is still an ignorance or lack of acceptance within the traditional yacht club infrastructure in this country in regards to how multihull sailing continues to evolve and get better while remaining very popular with a large group of sailors in this country. The boats and equipment have improved so much and this development has attracted many dinghy and keelboat sailors over to the "dark side" (myself included).
At my yacht club, I have started racing my Corsair trimaran in club PHRF races. We are the only multihull and we've had no problem blending in with the fleet on the starting line. Even though we finish far ahead of the lead mines, I still get comments after races about how we "don't go downwind" (because we jibe downwind and sail hotter angles) or don't go upwind well (even though we always sail within 5 degrees of the highest pointing lead mine). It's like they are in denial and just can't accept what their eyes see.
I believe that type of attitude is pervasive in the upper leadership of US Sailing. They continue to make decisions that seem to defy logic.
I see lets forget about the mono minded portion of the sailing world, they will never learn.
Last summer the crew I was part of sailed a cruising multihull (in a 24 hours race with 500 boats competing) to a first place in our small class but ALSO to something like 3rd overall on handicap over ALL classes. As it was a very large cruising multihull with a jacuzi on board with did so with a rather modest amount of sailed miles. When it was our turn to pick up our price a guy right behind said relatively loudly "and that is why you shouldn't get one of those floats".
Later in the day we saw him reinstall the toilet, the sink, the **** apparatus and a whole lot of other stuff he took out to gain speed for the race. We were sailing with 500 liters of water in out tank and 650 liters of diesel oil and duting the night we had all kinds of warm snacks to keep us warm and comfi. This monohull guy, despite leaning all night long on his trimmed down hot rod still lost from us while we were sailing a bloody caravan in 5 knots of wind from our deck chairs. Yeah that is one more reason why not to get a catamaran alright !
They will never learn.
With respect to skiffs. Yes they are spectacular, but they are also bloody hard to handle. Small wonder why it is not taking off in the wider world. Skiff sailing is just one big promo adventure. Does anyone else notice that all the footage of skiffs is 95 % under spinnaker ? That is because they are bloody slow ( = boring) upwind. Especially in the ludicrous light wind venues that the summer games always seem to select. Watching skiffies do their thing in 4 knots of wind is pretty close to watching a DVD course and ballet (balancing on their toes). No planing in those conditions !
And yes I feel windsurfing has got dealt a bad hand again as well. Have these guys sail in some decent breeze and you'll get a spectacle.
Maybe this is one of those times were cat sailing and surfer just need to break loose and do their own thing. I for one do not really see the olympics as sustaining much of the catsailing scene we have now.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
Re: 2012 Olympic Games Equipment issue...
[Re: John Williams]
#100516 03/13/0708:23 PM03/13/0708:23 PM
As I write this I can see that there are 100 people online at this forum. If a write-in campaign would have any influence, a unified effort by the readers of this forum could produce the kind of massive email onslaught that often cause politicos to sit up and listen.
John, do you have any idea who we could target to voice an organized email plea for retention of an Olympic multihull?
I see lets forget about the mono minded portion of the sailing world, they will never learn.
Last summer the crew I was part of sailed a cruising multihull (in a 24 hours race with 500 boats competing) to a first place in our small class but ALSO to something like 3rd overall on handicap over ALL classes. As it was a very large cruising multihull with a jacuzi on board with did so with a rather modest amount of sailed miles. When it was our turn to pick up our price a guy right behind said relatively loudly "and that is why you shouldn't get one of those floats".
Later in the day we saw him reinstall the toilet, the sink, the **** apparatus and a whole lot of other stuff he took out to gain speed for the race. We were sailing with 500 liters of water in out tank and 650 liters of diesel oil and duting the night we had all kinds of warm snacks to keep us warm and comfi. This monohull guy, despite leaning all night long on his trimmed down hot rod still lost from us while we were sailing a bloody caravan in 5 knots of wind from our deck chairs. Yeah that is one more reason why not to get a catamaran alright !
They will never learn.
With respect to skiffs. Yes they are spectacular, but they are also bloody hard to handle. Small wonder why it is not taking off in the wider world. Skiff sailing is just one big promo adventure. Does anyone else notice that all the footage of skiffs is 95 % under spinnaker ? That is because they are bloody slow ( = boring) upwind. Especially in the ludicrous light wind venues that the summer games always seem to select. Watching skiffies do their thing in 4 knots of wind is pretty close to watching a DVD course and ballet (balancing on their toes). No planing in those conditions !
And yes I feel windsurfing has got dealt a bad hand again as well. Have these guys sail in some decent breeze and you'll get a spectacle.
Maybe this is one of those times were cat sailing and surfer just need to break loose and do their own thing. I for one do not really see the olympics as sustaining much of the catsailing scene we have now.
Wouter
Bob:
Do you sail a 28R or the new 750 Sprint. Mike and I are looking at one in 2009. I FINALLY got out of Ocean Corp school and off to work.
That tack is being discussed a great deal - anyone is free to contact the Olympic Sailing Committee and voice their concerns. You can find the Committee listed at http://ussailing.org/olympics/committee.asp - Dean Brenner is the Chair and it was his ExCom that made the submission. I have contacted Dean and so have other members of the Multihull Council ExCom. Some of us feel that an organized write-in campaign would be the next step if our motion to the BOD this week fails.
John Williams
- The harder you practice, the luckier you get - Gary Player, pro golfer
After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: 2012 Olympic Games Equipment issue...
[Re: John Williams]
#100521 03/13/0710:08 PM03/13/0710:08 PM
P.S. - Doug Snell, I bought a Corsair Sprint 750, lovely boat to sail. Speed with comfort!
Bob:
Yea Bob Curry was fast on Great Bay Race. Maybe we will see you on circuit then? KO Sailing had one for $66,000 with sails. Maybe we can find a used one by then?
Back to subject:
We need to do whatever it takes to keep them. Count me in on email attack. Just let me know.
Doug
Last edited by DougSnell; 03/14/0701:20 AM.
Re: 2012 Olympic Games Equipment issue...
[Re: John Williams]
#100523 03/14/0709:19 AM03/14/0709:19 AM
This Olympic Selection looks like what I have seen 3 or 4 times in the last 12 years. The issue is not monohull vs multihull, the issue is rich countries and the rest of the world. It kinda goes like this:
Olympic Committee: Sailing requires an expensive facility and nobody watches it on TV. We have a marketing report that says people might watch skiffs.
Rich Countries: Sailing is Olympic tradition and a lot of our citizens participate.
Poor countries: I am not sure we have even seen half the boats you are talking about. We have nobody that can compete and we can't afford to send anyone anyway. We want all sailing events to be simple one design and we want the boats to be supplied. That way we can send at least one person.
South America: Keel Boats!, Keel Boats! (They have World Champions)
Compromise: A core of simple supplied boast plus specialties.
The Tornado is a specialty boat. We can get the Tornado continued but we will have to fight. Write your representative and let them know how you feel. This especially true outside of the the US and Europe. Your representative may not have a position and they have an equal voice in this matter.
Re: 2012 Olympic Games Equipment issue...
[Re: carlbohannon]
#100524 03/14/0710:14 AM03/14/0710:14 AM
I wonder if the reason is that with the top two US Tornado teams near retirement they might figure there is not another team close enough to take the reigns and have a chance to even qualify the country for 2012 - let alone chance at a medal. That would be typical.
I agree that we should all voice our disapproval.
Re: 2012 Olympic Games Equipment issue...
[Re: F18OxJ]
#100525 03/14/0711:36 AM03/14/0711:36 AM
What is obnoxious here is the poor judgment and subsequent action of the USA Sailing national authority....
They are supposed to represent OUR INTEREST!.. The Olympic portion (Bremer and Bodie) are supposed to win medals.
So... as Bob H, notes...
Quote
US Sailing is still not in touch with mainstream sailing in this country. It's hard to comprehend why this will not or has not changed.
They want our money to create and run the programs we use... So... they MUST explain to us why they won't support catamaran sailing at the highest levels of the sport.
They must explain why they think that skiff sailing for women has strong support in the USA....
Since I believe they are smoking some real [censored]... These answers will sound like real BS!
Mark
ps.. Oli, that would be a rational reason for this decision. You give them TOO MUCH CREDIT!. ... Do you see any women Skiff teams out there tearing it up??? How about any depth in the 49ner class either. I think CLUELESS is the best explanation!
crac.sailregattas.com
Re: 2012 Olympic Games Equipment issue...
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#100526 03/15/0710:16 AM03/15/0710:16 AM
ps.. Oli, that would be a rational reason for this decision. You give them TOO MUCH CREDIT!. ... Do you see any women Skiff teams out there tearing it up??? How about any depth in the 49ner class either. I think CLUELESS is the best explanation!
Hehe - I don't know what I was thinking, you're absolutely right. Time and time again these guys defy all logic.
Right now, I still sail Tornados, not for competition, but for enjoyment. They are a great boat to sail. With that stated, I also believe that it should remain the Olympic Class multihull for at least the next two quadreniums. Are there other cats to be considered, probably, but the Tornado still fits the profile better then any other right now.
The real question though seems to be, should there be an Olympic Multihull Class? The answer is definately yes and we need to speak up clearly about this issue directly to the OSC. I have already written all of the committee members. I hope that everyone else who is concerned does as well.
The Multihull Council spent a good deal of time this morning debating this issue in the US Sailing House of Delegates, where the Multihull Council is represented, and later to the Board of Directors. (We also spent hours talking with US Olympic Sailing Committee members during the weekend but more on that later.)
The Board of Directors is ultimately responsible for making all submissions to ISAF.
The House of Delegates is a constituent based body that basically makes recommendations to the Board.
Our Action Request to the Board was asking them to charge our ISAF delegation to support a Multihull at the 2012 Olympic Games. We had hoped that it would get passed to the Board with a recommendation from the House of Delegates. We did not have enough support in the House to get this favorable recommendation but it was close enough to take a real counting of the votes and we were able to spend a good deal of time making our points during debate.
During the Board of Directors meeting we brought up the same Action Request. The Board opened debate on the topic and we spent a good deal of time in debate again. I think we made our points well but the motion did not pass in the Board and so nothing has changed.
During debate the Board expressed very clearly and in no uncertain terms that they were voting for the disciplines in which they thought the US had the best medal chances in 2012. The Board expressed that US Sailing does and will continue to support both Multihull sailing and Board sailing but that this submission to ISAF would not change.
There are more detail but that is the basics of the story. More later.
