Damn, Mark L. - who pissed in your cereal?

BTW, Mark S. - we have 4 Tigers in the Detroit Hobie Fleet. Add that to the Nacra F-18's in CRAM and we have a pretty good thing going, all within a 3 - 4 hour drive.

OK... And so what does the TCDYC N20 fleet do?

Marina's have 5 of the same types of boats at the docks... Clubs have fleets/classes which do XXX.

For example, I have 5 Hobie 18's on the beach where I keep my boat. I don't believe the 5 guys have ever been in the same room at the same time... much less sail with each other! So... IMO.. they are not a fleet.

So, I am just asking If you are a fleet... what are you about in the world?

My hunch is that this is is the kind of thing that Laruffa is pointing to. It would seem that clubs/classes/ and sailors don't have a core mission which the sailors have committed to. Are the sailor busy about making that core mission happen? (be it world class racing, ****s and giggles racing, junior training, beer drinking on cats, whatever) It sounds like the frustration level has set him off. (Something I can relate to as well).

Mark:

Same thing we all do. Race and have fun. What else do they need to do.

Short ans sweet. Sailing is suppose to be about being with friends an enjoying the sport:

The Texas City Dike Yacht Club - bylaws

1. The TCDYC Agrees to no laws and follows the wind in all matters
2. We are of the view that sailing is a matter of personal choice and a way of life
3. We intend that all persons should sail catamarans and we invite them to be with us when we do
4. We will speak to our members and friends in a respectful manner at all times
5. We will take actions that promote sailing catamarans and will avoid any actions that are prohibited on the beach
6. We do not collect dues or any money that is not freely given for the enjoyment of the sport
7. We will individually do what it takes to make sailing at the dike enjoyable and safe for all persons on the beach
8. We are mindful of the diverse group of attitudes and personalities that comprise TCDYC and its guests. At all times we commit to them and ourselves that we will act respectfully and honorably towards anyone on the beach
9. We are a unified group with the ability to sail safe and contribute to an enjoyable environment for everyone on the beach

The Texas City Dike Yacht Club - Charter

To build a Yacht club that inspires its members to fulfill their dreams and participate in the possibilities of life.
To be examples of freedom and full self expression in the community
To create a lasting structure for future sailors to follow their desires to be one with the wind and the water

You are taking things to serious.

Doug

TCDYC is just a means where everyone just goes to have fun, there's almost always a cat sailing there on the weekends... hell I've gone in the middle of winter and seen other boats there. It may not be as organized as some of your other fleets and all, but I wouldn't say it 'isnt a fleet/club'

mbounds,
It is not who pissed in my cereal, it is how many pissed into our cereal!!!! We had three very good volunteers doing a lot of work for FREE for the better of sailing in particular CAT SAILING, these volunteers were used, abused, lied too, need I say none of these volunteers are involved with F-18 racing any more.
This was not the point of my posting I replied to the Tornado alives posting referring to the Tornado racing is healthy here in Australia. I am pissed at the fact that we have got our heads in the sand. Let me try to explain it another way this is how a catamaran sales pitch would look like if you sail in Sydney
spend 6 plus hours a week for a two 45 min races if you are lucky in good sailing conditions in a fleet of 4 boats??
-Two hours fixing your boat ready for the weekend,
-Hour to get your gear ready/ boat on the car sailing gear,
-One plus hours to travel to your club,
-One hour or more to rigg,
-One hour or more to pack up
-One plus hours to travel home
It will cost you anything between 15 to 30 thousand dollers + running cost of about 5 thousand if you're lucky, plus you will need to allow time to do your duty as a volunteer??

Now this is not a post trying to kill sailing but a tip to get off our back sides and find a way to fix the problem yes it is getting worse have a look at how many clubs are closing and the numbers are decreasing every year.

Mark Laruffa

Let me illustrate my point with the Tornado and some other examples.

The US tornado fleet is primarily composed of members who are training for the Olympics and International competition at the highest level. Its pretty clear what the goals of the class and the only US fleet are. (certainly not for everyone)

The Dogtown Yacht Club in Virginia was a fleet of members with a bunch of old cats whose goal was to get together on the appointed beach (that was all the organization needed) .. maybe sail/race... certainly party. Pretty clear what they were about as well. (certainly not for everyone)

The Bristol A class fleet is clearly focused on racing A class catamrans Tuesday evenings and at the national and international level. (Again certainly not for everyone)

The Hobie Fleet in New England has morphed from a racing weekend fleet to a really active social fleet where they don't run points regattas anymore. You would not count up the number of 16's in the New England fleet and say... We have a one design 16 fleet because that is not their goal anymore.



Great... I get the goal of the TCDYC... (Again certainly not for everyone)

People loose interest when there is a mismatch with the goals of the fleet and their personal goals.

Maybe I am wrong... but when it is asserted ... we have a one design class with 5 boats. ... the message that world gets Is... YES!. we are focused on one design class racing. Perhaps half the group just happen to own that same kind of boat and have no interest in one design racing or commiting to sailing it at that level. Perhaps you would tell me... TCDYC N20 fleet is mostly interested in racing under portsmouth... cause that is where most of our buddies are playing! Whatever your fleets goal, it works best if everyone gets it and is onboard with the mission.

Certainly nothing wrong with your fleet mission!

In the context of this thread.. (Tornado racing).. It does'nt sound like your N20 fleet will be focused on one design racing at the national level.

Me thinks thats what Laruffa is ticked about.
Laruffa is commenting on the state of affairs around Sydney... and he is frustrated. Clearly his goals and the sailors around Sydney are a bit at odds. (or he needs another coffee)

Mark:

I think one design racing is great. BUT it seems Formula Classes are the wave of the Future as in F-18 and F-16. That is why I am looking at the Blade. Also we are hosting the F-18 Nationals in Oct. If we tried to JUST race one design here in Div 6, we WOULDN'T race at all as there are only enough for class only in a few classes. If it wasn't for Open class I could race 17 most of the time and 4.3 at all.

Doug

Sound like my sorta people. No pedantic freaks or anger monkeys.
Sail fast, compete hard, play nice and realise it is about the fun, not the ego.

Store mast up. Move closer to the boat. Work on boat during week because that is almost as much fun as the sailing. Store gear properly when you pack up.
Most important, treat others well and stop bitching.
If it doesn't put a big fat smile on your face...don't do it.

Warbird:

We try hard. I have trained grand daughter for 7 years and have helped bring six boats to the sport this year. YES when ego or left at home EVERYONE has fun!! Isn't that why we got into this sport to begin with? Racing is just a added perk.

Doug

Don't hold back Mark - Tell us what you really think!

Maybe it's not healthy where you are but down here it's working well. We aren't the best sailors about and certainly not going to win world titles but we have a fleet of 40 or so cats every weekend who enjoy their racing. Sorry that you have lost interest in Oz sailing and hope you find inner peace in Europe <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

FWIW the T will always struggle because of it's physical size and the transport issues that it entails. There will always be a group who love the boats and will sail them at grass roots level and for as long as it is an olympic boat the elite will always run their campagnes on them whilst flopping to other classes inbetween. I personally like the T being the olympic boat and see no reason to change.

Tiger Mike

You are obviously disgruntled about whatever went on at the worlds and that is regrettable but please don't include the rest of Australia in your issues with sailing in Sydney.

Tiger Mike

Mike,
Yes I am disgruntle not at what happened at the Worlds as they were great success. It was that a number of people could not go past there selfish needs and agendas, to see how this benefited all class of cats and I am mostly disgruntle that we have lost a small number of people, who I believe are the only ones with the capability and vision to make it work. In regards to your little club I congratulate you, as it's working when compared to other clubs but there is not much to compare to these days, and yes it suits your needs but I don't think you can truly believe that this can be classed as a success for Australian sailing. 20 years ago the some club had well over 40 cats racing, there was 20+ Hobie 16 alone! plus just 10km away, you could race Sunday with a further 20 or so 16's and there were 3 or more clubs with fleets over the numbers you are talking about. I only used Sydney as an example, I think many are experiencing what we are in Sydney, “yes” the some as Melboune there are areas of small success. I believe we need to have a studious look at how Europe is working there producing the best sailors and the largest fleets. I did not post this as a bitch, we have a problem and if we don't why was this forum even started, the question was asked why was not the Tornado nor any cat not recognize by a US sailing Federation to be considered for the Olympics??? Maybe we're not as healthy as you think
Mark

The laser is a kids beach basher and is a great Olympic medal.

Agreed Mark, Cat sailing in Oz is far from healthy.... However as I stated, the Tornado fleet has 3 very healthy club fleets in OZ, being Darwin, Nedlands and Somers. Unfortunatly they are seperated by great distances a lot like the 3 F18 clubs, Kurnell, Manly QLD, Frankston. Unfortunatly, you will find it very difficult introducing am F18 fleet at these Tornado Clubs and visa versa with Ts at the F18 clubs. The sailors at these clubs are very passionate about their repective classes.

At the moment, I am over the sailing and the Cap is on the market. What I do in the new season who knows.... May spend a bit of time on the pointy end of an F18 and hopefully a Tornado as well as a bit of big boat stuff.

I was quiet involved in the Tornado Class some years ago.... Never really got into it with the F18s as you well know, however in a year or 2, am looking into a weekend learn to sail school. Teaching people how to sail is an old passion of mine from way back with my old club and Accadamey of Sport.

Hopefully this would be a little something possitive for our sport on a local grass roots level.

Anyway, see you at the club. Brent and I may dust of the Cap for a race for old times sake. We sailed together for 7 years on the 5.8, Tornado and F18..... Tough to let it go but will be forever a great mate.

Guys,

I'm not in Australia but several of my sailing related friends are and from what they are saying it appears that Mark L. is right. That is too say that I hear very similar things from other people. Clubs being terminated and the remaining ones are struggling with various problems like declining membership and very high liability insureance costs. At some point reverse critical mass is reached and then the system is likely to collapse totally. A healthy cat scene is to a very large extend dependent on a large base of recreational sailors. How else will young people get into contact with sailing ?

I'm not sure we in europe are doing it right though. I think we are lucky that the scene is so compact geographically. If a club fails then the next one is just 10 km down the road. And of course we still have lots of holliday time at our jobs and a liability culture that is geared towards low costs and preventing excesses. This is nothing that the sailing organisations have achieved but it does really help keeping the scene alive.

Wouter

Yep - we are 1 little club and we don't pretend to be representative of all of Australia. Nor should Sydney, Brisbane or any other single place. I guess it depends on your definition of success. To me there are two measures of overall success. First is to have lots of "little" successes over and over again all around the country. I won't talk about interstate because I simply don't know however here we have quite a few of these little "successes". Second is for the participants to enjoy themselves weather they come first, second, middle of the fleet or last. Once again this is happening here. Even when we have a bad day on the race track, at least we have a beer afterwards and bitch about how hard done by we were.

To the others who don't want to consider joining in - I'm sorry because you don't know what you are missing.

Michael

Mike,
I think thats great, it does not answer anything, are you suggesting that I should drive to Melboune to sail in two races against a doz tigers??? every Sat, it would be easier for you to offer constructive suggestions <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Wouter, as you are from Europe and a keen sailor you may be able to shed some light on the problems that we have here in Australia. Some of my counterparts have not had the opportunity of seeing what is happening in Europe that highlights the dismal state that other parts of the world are in particlualry my interest Australia. OK so our friend Mike states that Frankston is doing great and I agree it is definitely doing better then anywhere else even thought it is no where near the success of some smaller clubs in Europe in size, quality or fun!! A good example would be my friends in Belguim placed in a relatively small beach town with a club house the size of most double garages here in Australia, there would have to be over a hundred boats it is hard to estimate with all those masts? With decent sailing and social activities not only on Saturday and Sunday but midweek as well, now this is the part I do not understand. The population would not be as large as Sydney or melbourne and in Australian terms the beach is not too attractive and a dam sight colder. The sailing waters are a murky brown full of current ane they can only sail if they are lucky 4 months of the year and this is a typcial example throughout Europe and on contrast we have blue water, exceptional sailing conditions, warmer weather and can sail all year around, with the exception of one or two clubs we are lucky to get more then 4 of one type of boat at most club days. Now as I said at the start WE are doing soemthing wrong, and I would not class good old Mike to be doing it that much better when you compare it to some of the little clubs in Europe.
Wouter I am sure you would agree and maybe you are one of the better to comment, I am not sure if there is a solution?? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Just a side note but CRAW now has 9 I20's and they all show up for all the regettas.