Hi Dennis,

There are quite a few 2nd cats for sale that will meet you needs:
http://kopen.marktplaats.nl/watersport-en-boten/catamarans/c981.html

I would look for a place to leave the cat with the mast up instead of trailering everytime you want to go for a sail, there is a big club in Hellevoetsluis and I know of some others in that region.

Hallo Dennis, had nou even eerder gezegd dat je op de Grevelingen vaart, dan had ik meteen in mijn commentaar rekening kunnen houden met de Nederlandse situatie.

Translated for you Non-Dutch speaking folks out here "Hello Dennis, if you had told us sooner that you are sailing on the Grevelingen, then I could have commented on you question with the Dutch situation in mind the first time around.

Here in the Netherlands we got one of the very best secondhand markets for beach cats anywhere. Whatever you fancy is available at a very attractive price. The only exceptions are the rotomoulded designs, for some reason they never caught on here.

Just like Tony (FX-one) I looked at marktplaats.nl and there are some interesting cats there :

There is a Hobie cat 16 at 995 Euro's
A Topcat F2 at 1500 Euro's
Nacra 5.2 at 750 Euro's (but requiring some repair work)
A Prindle 16 at 1500 Euro's
A nacra 5.7 at 1950 Euro's
A Hydra 16 incl Trailer at 1.250 Euro's
A hobie cat 13 for 750 Euro's
Another Hobie cat 13 for 1150 Euro's
A nacra 5.0 for 1650 Euro's
Another Prindle 16 going for the highest offer
Yet another Prindle 16 going for 500 Euro's
A hobie 16 for 1650 Euro's
Hobie cat 16 incl trailer for 1750 Euro's
Dart 18 for 1350 Euro's
Nacra 5.2 + trailer for 1550 Euro;s
Hobie 16 for 1000 euro
Prindle 15 for 1095 Euro
Prindle 18 for 1500 Euro

And that is just naming the offer below 2000 Euro's, with some negociations the asked prices of some 2000 + boat may well come down. As you see more then enough options available.

Personally I think the Hobie 13's are very attractive offers. These boats were the predessors of the Hobie wave that mr Leonard (surf city) is talking about. These are small and underpowered boats but for 750 and 1150 Euro's they are very attractively prices. The market is absolutely flat for these boats so you may even drop the 1150 somewhat with some skilled negociating. Both are offered with a mainsail and jib. The Hobie 13's are both lighter and faster then the Hobie wave. Compare 97 kg with 110 kg. Also note the Hobie 13 is fitted out more like a true beach catamaran with a trapeze etc.

The links to the Hobie 13's are :

750 Euro Hobie 13

1150 Euro Hobie 13

The second boat I want to highlight is the nacra 5.0 for 1650 Euro's incl a trailer. The boat looks old and probably is only worth some 1000 Euro's plus something for the trailer but it is a boat that is still supported by the nacra dealor in the Netherlands (Scheveningen) and has excellent sailing characteristics plus modern looks. The only real downside is that you probably need a righting aid like a water bag when you go singlehanding. The nacra 5.0 is certainly a boat you will not tire off quickly.

1650 Euro nacra 5.0

The hobie 16's speak for themselfs. These boats are also still supported by the Hobie dealer in Noordwijk and these boats a very similar in pro's and con's to the nacra 5.0 but look less modern and are somewhat less well behaved as the nacra 5.0.

The Hydra 16 is a remarkable offer in the listing. I know these boats and they are pretty much a smaller version of the Tornado. They have kick-up centreboards (zwaarden) and are pretty interestin boats but have gone out of production a very long time ago and no replacements parts are available for them. These boats are typically very hard to sell because of this, BUT some owners have taken very good care of them and because of it being a dead class you can really negociate down the price. In effect these can be very good bargains when you play your cards right. It is definately one of the more high performance boats of the listing with a lightweight aluminium mast. This boat is offered including trailer, wetsuits, trapeze harnesses, the works and they are willing to deliver the boat to your doorstep. Indicates to me that they really want to sell the boat. In the pictures the sails look al right.


1250 Euro Hydra 16


Personally I feel the Prindle 16's are great boats, but the Nacra dealer here in Holland ceased to stock replacements parts for them. They sold their hole stock to another guy in Zandvoort, but it will get harder to find replacement parts in the future. Not that you often need to however.

For the boat specs on all the named boats, like sail area weight etc, go to :

http://www.watersportverbond.nl/data/Z8F_numdet-01-4-02-2007.pdf

If you have further questions about a specific design then don't hesitate to ask. I know most of the boats named as I sailed many of them at one time or another.

Another thing I can advice is to find two inexpensive offers of the same boat and by them both and assemble one single boat from it using all the best parts. The left overs you can use as your own stock of replacement parts or sell them off. This approach is especially handy when dealing with Prindle 16's. Often the selling off of a Prindle 16 in parts brings back in more money then selling the whole boat. And there are heaps of Prindle 16's in the Netherlands so this trick will work for many many many years in the future. The same trick is applied to Prindle 18's, nacra 5.2's and some other boats that are inexpensive on the secondhand market.

And Ohh before I forget that Dart 18 offered for 1350 Euro's is a very attracive offer as well. Also this boat is supported by a Dutch dealer, so replacement parts are relative easy to come by. The dart 18 class in Netherlands is small but very active and extremely great fun, great people.

Good luck

Wouter

I have been watching this thread and itching to say something. We don't sell Hobie Waves, or any kind of boat, but I just think this is the perfect answer for you.

Your wife would LOVE the Wave, and so would your kids. I have had all my grandchildren out on my Wave since they were babes in arms. The boat is very stable and hard to capsize. If it does capsize, it can't turtle and trap people beneath it, because it has the masthead bob. And it can be righted by a 100-pound woman. In fact, most women have no trouble even raising the mast themselves. And it has more deck and trampoline area for seating than much larger catamarans -- more than a Hobie 16 and even a little more than a Hobie 18.

It has tremendous buoyancy -- it carries two adults and all four of my grandchildren with no problem whatsoever.

In lighter winds you could let your 2-year-old steer the boat without worries. When your kids get a little older, you can add the optional trapeze wires, because kids love to trapeze.

It tacks amazingly well.

Yes, it is slower than larger catamarans, but all boats are slow and relatively boring in light air, so that is not really an issue. In moderate wind ranges up to 20 knots, you would notice the speed difference with bigger cats. But over 20 knots you won't notice any difference because most of the other cats will be on shore while you are zooming around having a blast in up to 35 knots of wind.

As far as rigging time, I figure 2 minutes to raise the mast and connect the forestay, five minutes to untie the boat from the trailer and put it on the beach (or launch it from a ramp), 2 minutes to raise the sail and be ready to go.

For your particular family situation, it sounds like the ideal boat at this point in your life.

Personally, I would not get the back rests, and I would not get the jib (at least to begin with). I do recommend the spreader bar between the bows because it makes it a lot easier to move the boat around on shore.

You can always add the jib later. And if you want to make it even more fun, you can add the optional spinnaker or a non-standard, roller-furling "Hooter." But for right now, with your limited budget, find a good, used, basic Wave and see how your family likes it.

Rick and I have had Waves (we each sail our own) for almost 10 years now, and, although we have sailed and raced many different beach cats over the past 35 years, we are having more fun with our Waves than with any other cats, and have found them to be the most versatile. But the most important factor is that with the Waves we have been able to do more sailing than ever before because they are so easy to rig and launch and also because they can be single-handed in a much greater wind range than most other cats.

In eight years, after you have gradually (as money allows) souped up the Wave as much as possible with add-ons, if your kids are clamoring for a bigger or faster boat, you will have a bigger budget by then.

As far as durability, Waves seem to be almost indestructible. We have owned several, and have never had to do any repair work. Granted, the material is difficult to repair if it gets a hole, but so far that has not happened. We still have my original Wave, purchased almost 10 years ago, and the hulls are still fine.

Note: If you buy a used boat from a rental operation, though, be sure to check out the skegs. If they slide the boat up and down the beach without using beach wheels, over a period of time the skegs get worn down flat on the bottoms, which will hurt the boat's pointing ability.

If Dennis wants to persue this path then he best contact the Dutch Hobie dealer directly :

http://www.hobiecat.nl/

Hobie Cat Holland B.V.
Jan van Gent 2
2201 XT Noordwijk
Telefoon: 071-3619451
info@hobiecat.nl

Openingstijden:
dinsdag t/m vrijdag van 09.00 uur tot 17.30 uur
zaterdag van 09.00 uur tot 17.00 uur


For I have personally never seen a Hobie Wave being offered second hand in the Netherlands or anywhere else in Europe. Not even on the Hobie cat websites themselfs. I have not even seen a hobie wave in real life except at the various annual boatshows. I know they have been sold to resorts like club med as a friend of mine used to work for hobie cat Holland and told me that. But I have no idea what they do with them after the resorts have written them off. I figure Hobie cat Holland will know.

Wouter

Thanks Wouter and Mary!

I just got off the phone and it appears to be true that the Wave is very uncommon around here, even at the Dutch Hobie dealer... Too bad. After Mary's passionate defense of the Wave I just had to check it out. Mary, I promise you I'll keep my eyes peeled for one. The dealer tipped me a school that bought one, so I'll call them and ask if I can rent it for an afternoon. What with Mary and Jeremy both recommending Waves, I will have to give these boats a serious check-out. Who knows, maybe one will be up for sale second-hand sometime.

In the mean time I'm going to keep looking out for a super deal on a second-hand smallish cat, like the Nacra 5.0. If I do go that route I'll have some flotation sewn in the top of the sail. Or the Prindle 16 or Hobie 13...
To me, the options are still dazzling though! To think I thought it would be tough finding a cat that fit my criteria! I'll be sure to check with you all before buying anything though, you are all super!
Thanks for all the invaluable advice.

Dennis

No matter what boat you get, I think you should put a bob on the top of the mast to make sure it cannot turtle if it capsizes when you have children aboard.

I know that racers think the bob would make the boat a little bit slower, but I have never seen or heard any evidence to that effect. And you say you do not plan to race, so what's the difference if it can give you and your wife some peace of mind -- and make it easier to right the boat yourself.

The euro hit two US dollars yesterday. At 2,000 euros ($4,000 USD), you can get a new Wave. I have one - I race it solo, and pleasure sail with my wife and 3-year-old. There is no faster boat to set up - one string to pull. And the boat is an outstanding design and packs more performance than most people credit.

DO NOT go for the optional jib - it actually is a performance degrader. Use bridle tells and the tell tales on the main - the uni drives like a dream. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

John, If that (Eur-$ / 1:2) was the case I'd be selling the house right now. OTOH, Once those hard working troops of yours (no sarcasm intended!) get back home, the Dollar will probably skyrocket anyway.

I think the mast bob is a very good idea Mary. When out racing there are always lots of boats around to help out, but when out alone, you're left to your own 'devices', so they had better work.

I surely would have noticed as the only difference in our appearence would've been that I would be wearing faded, ripped SHORTS, not jeans! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Good luck on your search for the most perfect boat!

Dennis,

When you called Hobie cat Holland did they give you a pricing indication for a new Wave ?

I would like to know what they are asking for one on the EU market.

Wouter

Mary,
I am a long time cat sailor with kids that are now grown and I find myself looking for the right boat for me. I have a Hobie 14 with trap and no jib, and a Nacra 5.8. I single hand both, the Nacra when 0-11 knots of wind and 11-20 I sail the Hobie because I can get it back up when single handing. My wife no longer crews for me so I am usually single handing it. I can't afford an A-cat and I think mostly I will be pleasure sailing but might like to do a few distance races or bouy races. I have only seen one Wave in person but I thought the boat seemed fragile. The stays seemed super lightweight ( I guess compared to my Nacra ) so I never considered it. Your description makes me re-think my options. My question is how does the Wave handle compared to the Hobie 14? Faster? Pitch bowls? Does the Wave offer a trap option? I never realized the tramp was that large. As a CatSailor reader for years, I know you and Rick have promoted the boat, but your recent post has got me thinking maybe a Wave.

Rusty

Wouter,

To tell you the truth, I was indeed given an indication, but It was completely out of my range and I forgot! I guess my brain only filed the "out of range" message... The guy quoted me a used "Hobie Teddy" for which he was asking 3250 EUR (I wrote that down). I'm sure he would be glad to tell you if you called though!
Dennis

In a long ago post Matt Miller said the Hobie Bob has less drag than a crew's head. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

but that extra weight at the top of the mast reduces righting moment.

This is yet another inconvenient truth.<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

However the bob will help keep her from going turtle so you’ll be easier to sight during rescue operations.

Re Hydra, ask specifically if the boat leaks and if so where from. These were fabricated out of many pieces and the topside seams tend to leak. Very well behaved and predictable. The mast is not so easy to put up single handed as the newer lighter 16 masts and cannot be upgraded to a twin trap as it tends to break. A propper sail boat though (not all cats are) which goes about on a dime and once trimmed correctly will give great fun.

"Fragile" is a word I have never heard applied to a Wave. They are bulletproof. I think the stays are a little beefier on the "Club" model.

It is slower than the Hobie 14; and yes, it will pitchpole. Trapeze is an option, even though the boat doesn't need one. It is not suitable for most distance races -- too slow. You don't have a Wave racing fleet near you. And you don't sail in a high-wind area. So a Wave does not sound like the boat you are looking for.

If you rig a Wave with a roller-furling reacher (Hooter), it is substantially faster and more fun, and is still easy to singlehand -- but then you lose some of the simplicity factor as far as rigging the boat, unless you keep it set up at a beach.

This was just added to Marktplaats, seems perfect to me:
http://watersport.marktplaats.nl/catamar...ta-trailer.html

Nacra 5 is OK, Dart 18 is OK, Teddy = Tub on Train Tracks = heap. Dart 16 = perfect for family and singlehanded.