| Re: Corsair 31 Stability
[Re: PTP]
#105493 05/01/07 04:16 AM 05/01/07 04:16 AM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | Maybe it has that impression only because it being larger than the 28 or 24, skippers take them out in bigger wind and waves and push them harder than they would a 28 or 24? And with the taller mast, bigger headsails etc., you can get in -over your head- quicker?
Last edited by Timbo; 05/01/07 09:25 AM.
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: Corsair 31 Stability
[Re: PTP]
#105494 05/01/07 11:50 AM 05/01/07 11:50 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,459 Annapolis,MD Keith
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Posts: 1,459 Annapolis,MD | All of Farrier's designs are set up to take about 30 knots of wind to cause a capsize if you full sails up sheeted in and take the wind on the side.
The 31 is not an unstable boat by any means, IMO, so it depends on who is doing the talking and what the circumstances are. There are designs that are les powered up and therefore more "stable", and some that more posered up and less so. Some of the capsizes lumped into the 31 categorie are also very modified boats (Cheekee Monkee), or are racing versions of the F-9r, which are not Corsair F-31s.
There's also a certain multi design group that would like you to believe the 31 is bad that way so that action being taken against their boat would seem unjustified.
Also, the new 31-1D is an updated and hopped up version of the original boat that Corsair put together, it may be a little more high-strung, but nothing I would call unstable.
I had come across a Dragonfly forum not too long ago that were posting how all the Farrier and Corsair boats were high-strung and capsize prone and unsafe. All a matter of perspective... | | | Re: Corsair 31 Stability
[Re: thom]
#105497 05/02/07 12:28 PM 05/02/07 12:28 PM |
Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay Luiz
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Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay | Whats so great about Farrier designs is they are basically a boat in the box setup Is it true that Corsair modificated the original F31? Is the Corsair 31 still a Farrier design?
Luiz
| | | Re: Corsair 31 Stability
[Re: thom]
#105499 05/03/07 05:56 PM 05/03/07 05:56 PM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | What can you tell me about the F24 vs. the F25C vs. the F28R? I know the 25C is a carbon homebuilt and the 28R has a carbon mast, but as far as the 24, is it ok to go out in big wind on that boat? Or will the big waves give you too much of a soaking?
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: Corsair 31 Stability
[Re: Timbo]
#105500 05/04/07 03:58 PM 05/04/07 03:58 PM |
Joined: May 2007 Posts: 2 New Zealand Ian_Farrier
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Posts: 2 New Zealand | To be concerned about the 31 stability is a little strange, considering the numbers out there, and its track record compared to others. I have always preferred to design safe roomy cruisers, but ones that also happen to go very fast. I have stayed away from more extreme racers as they can be too risky in the hands of the inexperienced. It is easy to make any multihull go fast by just putting on a huge rig, and minimizing accommodation, but I prefer to achieve performance by hull and rig efficiency, along with constant refinement, not by overpowering. You can see a more detailed opinion on this subject (with photos of capsized multihulls) at www.f-boat.com/pages/news/safetyaspects.htmlIan Farrier Farrier Marine (NZ) Ltd Farrier Marine, Inc.
Have designed the odd multihull or two
| | | Re: Corsair 31 Stability
[Re: thom]
#105501 05/04/07 04:45 PM 05/04/07 04:45 PM |
Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay Luiz
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Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay | Thanks Thom, I probably asked the wrong question. Lets rephrase it: to what extent is it correct to call "Farriers" the recently constructed Corsairs derived from F-Boats?
Mathematically and legally, if they changed ANY detail (and we know they did it), it is not his responsibility anymore.
Naturally one can use the F31 figures from the website as a reference (to discover that questioning the F31 stability is ridiculous...), but one can not be sure that today's Corsair 31 will behave as predicted for the F31.
And before you ask: five and a half years and counting. Folding system operational, mast half rigged, sails follow next.
Luiz
| | | Re: Corsair 31 Stability
[Re: Luiz]
#105503 05/05/07 01:08 PM 05/05/07 01:08 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,459 Annapolis,MD Keith
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Posts: 1,459 Annapolis,MD | Luiz, Strictly speaking, these days anything built by Corsair is now called a C-XX, even if the boats are unchanged from Ian's original designs. So, F-28r is now C-28r, F-24 is now C-24, etc. If your boat was built before that change the name it's still going to be referred to as a "C" boat. The only models not being renamed are those out of production, ie F-27 is still an F-27, F-24 MKI is still that. The sail insignia is changed to reflect this as well.
The 31 went through a couple of iterations originally, some being built in Australia. Up through the F-31r Ian had input, the new 1D updates are Corsair's. | | | Re: Corsair 31 Stability
[Re: thom]
#105505 05/05/07 10:10 PM 05/05/07 10:10 PM |
Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay Luiz
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Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay | I hope you (and I) live long enough to see them... I am not pushing things, but it will sail. Eventually. BTW, never sail to work. It would ruin your sailing day. If you want to mix work and sail, call your boat "Work Meeting". You'll be able to tell the truth to the boss or wife questioning your absence: "I'm in a Work Meeting". Cheers,
Luiz
| | | Re: was C 31 Stability now f/C24-Long boring post.
[Re: Timbo]
#105506 05/06/07 07:50 AM 05/06/07 07:50 AM |
Joined: Nov 2001 Posts: 351 Dallas, Texas thom
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Posts: 351 Dallas, Texas | The 24 was the most competitive class but not it appear the F/C28R is the dominate class. I have sailed on one 24 and it was a little wet but spray was the main source. Its fine in big wind if sailed properly. It can not be sailed like a sled...none of these boats is a sled. I would try to crew for someone in your area. This is easier than you think because most times the skipper is looking for a crew.
As for the F25c -IF BORED NOW DO NOT READ!!! The F25c was made in molds by Colorado Composites who was a subcontractor to MPG Marine. A strict layup schedule and check list were followed on all 48 boats. The molds were vacuum bagged then the different pieces were put into a custom oven and baked. Most were partially assembled at the factory to the extent that the bulkheads, forward bunk, amas, hinges,etc were installed by the eight guys in the crew. Some of the first had fair to poor prep and the paint [usually Awlgrip] developed minor problems. There is little head room. There have been noted problems with the balsa core when boats are left on the water. If the boats are removed and allowed to dry out they do better. I don't know of any kits that are unfinished now. As for speed this tri reacts directly to the abitity of the crew sailing. Spray is less of an issue on this boat than the 24.
The F28R is a one design class that is campaigned in several areas. Its alot roomier inside than the 24,25c and the deck is more flat. If you want one design this is the way to go for now. Some of the top guys are racing this tri at Key West.
The C31 1D is also a one design class with measurement/ weight certificates while the F31R,RS,etc are more or less grouped together. This boat gets some spray as well but less than the others. When looking at them side by side the 31 appears awesome.
As far as awesome goes the F33R and F35c are it in my opinion. I inspected an F33R made in Austrailia being assembled in Houston and have seen pics/videoof the F35c. These are state of the art Farrier tris that when seen in person literally increase the blood pressure by 30 point...
But when looking at what all these cost to buy and maintain you should research this thoroughly.
Alot depends on where you are going to sail as well as how many boat bucks [1 boat buck =$1,000.00] you can spend.
I would look into the new F22 on the Farrier Marine web site. This tri is being built around the world by several people.
If not interested in that new age tri [F22] I would look for a starter F24. If you want something bigger after a couple of years they are generally easier to sell/trade in. Many of theres have been totally redone and some never have been on the ocean. I saw one on Lake Ray Roberts last month that was almost perfect.
fair winds,
thom | | | Re: was C 31 Stability now f/C24-Long boring post.
[Re: thom]
#105509 05/07/07 08:41 PM 05/07/07 08:41 PM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | Here's a thought I had a while back. Build (or buy) a F22 center hull and akas, then add Inter 20 hulls for the Ama's, also use the Inter 20 mast and sails. A "poor man's" trimaran that could also be un-done back into an Inter 20 when the need for that might arise. What do you think?
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: Corsair 31 Stability
[Re: thom]
#105511 05/11/07 06:21 AM 05/11/07 06:21 AM |
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 63 jdaf31r
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Posts: 63 | Having been one who has pushed my F31R very hard and to the limits (but not beyond) I can say that it is very stable, so much that I race with my wife, and two kids who are now 8 and 11. They have been sailing/racing since they were 3 wk old, either on a F27 or the F31R.
We have reached a max GPS speed of 29kt during a race, but that probably included a 4-5 kt current, at the same time a Firebird capsized while crossing the starting line. I have launched the boat off a wave completely heading out to Block Island, I have stuffed the bows to the point that water was past the mast and all the crew including myself thought we were doomed (the boat rounded up and set back down right side up), and flown the main hull in 30+ winds with full main (not fast, but fun) in Naragansett Bay, RI. Sailed in 12-15' seas off of Gloucester, 20-30' swells around Block Island. I would never think of taking my family on a mono and pushing it as hard as I did the tri. So For stability I would say the F31R is excellent. Having had both the F27 and the F31R, the 31R, when reefed, feels very much like a F27.
The 31R1D utilizes the same shapes, but sports a larger main/jib, rudder, daggerboard, etc... It's a faster boat.
I would never think to take a F24 in winds over 20 or seas over 3-4' These conditions are extreme on this boat. Or at least the couple that I have hear of capsizing were racing at the time and pushing the boat pretty hard I imagine (we were way ahead at the time so we didn't see it happen.) | | |
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