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Corsair 31 Stability #105492
04/30/07 10:31 PM
04/30/07 10:31 PM
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I have been wondering about some reports of the 31 not being very stable. Some say that it is inherently unstable and possible unsafe because of it. I would think that the boat is unstable just as any boat is unstable if pushed really hard and your attention lapses.
I still maintain that life is TOO SHORT FOR MONOHULLS and am still seriously considering a 31 but I need some opinions.
Is the 31 unstable? Of all the Corsairs is it the most unstable?

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Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: PTP] #105493
05/01/07 03:16 AM
05/01/07 03:16 AM
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Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Maybe it has that impression only because it being larger than the 28 or 24, skippers take them out in bigger wind and waves and push them harder than they would a 28 or 24? And with the taller mast, bigger headsails etc., you can get in -over your head- quicker?

Last edited by Timbo; 05/01/07 08:25 AM.

Blade F16
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Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: PTP] #105494
05/01/07 10:50 AM
05/01/07 10:50 AM
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Keith Offline
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All of Farrier's designs are set up to take about 30 knots of wind to cause a capsize if you full sails up sheeted in and take the wind on the side.

The 31 is not an unstable boat by any means, IMO, so it depends on who is doing the talking and what the circumstances are. There are designs that are les powered up and therefore more "stable", and some that more posered up and less so. Some of the capsizes lumped into the 31 categorie are also very modified boats (Cheekee Monkee), or are racing versions of the F-9r, which are not Corsair F-31s.

There's also a certain multi design group that would like you to believe the 31 is bad that way so that action being taken against their boat would seem unjustified.

Also, the new 31-1D is an updated and hopped up version of the original boat that Corsair put together, it may be a little more high-strung, but nothing I would call unstable.

I had come across a Dragonfly forum not too long ago that were posting how all the Farrier and Corsair boats were high-strung and capsize prone and unsafe. All a matter of perspective...

Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: PTP] #105495
05/01/07 03:23 PM
05/01/07 03:23 PM
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
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I think the main on the 31 has two sets of reef points, so for cruising you could reduce sail.

Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: PTP] #105496
05/01/07 03:58 PM
05/01/07 03:58 PM
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Dallas, Texas
thom Offline
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Any tri will get into trouble if ignored. I have some experience on the F31R and like it very much as a medium speed tri. It doesn't fly the main hull easily like an F25c or Seacart but will go quite well when sailed properly. It also generaly takes more crew than the smaller tris if racing. Waves I fly off the top of the F31 goes over them with good momentum. Theres enough room for as many as six to race with and not be crowded but you can race quite well with 2 crew with the Mike Lenenman setup with mast head furling spin, furling jibs, etc. Whats so great about Farrier designs is they are basically a boat in the box setup with almost all the bugs well worked out. I have seen a F31R go together and sail off in one hour with two people. Go for a test sail if you are qualified to buy one if not go to the dock cause we are always looking for crew...

thom

Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: thom] #105497
05/02/07 11:28 AM
05/02/07 11:28 AM
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Asuncion, Paraguay
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Quote
Whats so great about Farrier designs is they are basically a boat in the box setup


Is it true that Corsair modificated the original F31? Is the Corsair 31 still a Farrier design?


Luiz
Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: Luiz] #105498
05/02/07 03:51 PM
05/02/07 03:51 PM
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Dallas, Texas
thom Offline
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Hello Luiz-

The C31 1D is basically the same boat but has some mods [longer dagger,rudder, low tech interior, some carbon, smoothed amas, some have a canting carbon mast=179lbs, etc.] Translates into quite a new handicap... That boat really goes well. I don't know how it stacks up against the F32R,F33R or F35C. I think the Harvest Moon had both the F33R and F35c [underpowered sails] as well as a C31 1D. Go on the Corsair site and check it out. Farrier and Corsair split in 2000 I believe. The C36 is not a Farrier design.

thom

Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: thom] #105499
05/03/07 04:56 PM
05/03/07 04:56 PM
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Sebring, Florida.
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What can you tell me about the F24 vs. the F25C vs. the F28R? I know the 25C is a carbon homebuilt and the 28R has a carbon mast, but as far as the 24, is it ok to go out in big wind on that boat? Or will the big waves give you too much of a soaking?


Blade F16
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Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: Timbo] #105500
05/04/07 02:58 PM
05/04/07 02:58 PM
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New Zealand
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To be concerned about the 31 stability is a little strange, considering the numbers out there, and its track record compared to others.

I have always preferred to design safe roomy cruisers, but ones that also happen to go very fast. I have stayed away from more extreme racers as they can be too risky in the hands of the inexperienced.

It is easy to make any multihull go fast by just putting on a huge rig, and minimizing accommodation, but I prefer to achieve performance by hull and rig efficiency, along with constant refinement, not by overpowering.

You can see a more detailed opinion on this subject (with photos of capsized multihulls) at

www.f-boat.com/pages/news/safetyaspects.html

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine (NZ) Ltd
Farrier Marine, Inc.


Have designed the odd multihull or two
Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: thom] #105501
05/04/07 03:45 PM
05/04/07 03:45 PM
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Thanks Thom, I probably asked the wrong question. Lets rephrase it: to what extent is it correct to call "Farriers" the recently constructed Corsairs derived from F-Boats?

Mathematically and legally, if they changed ANY detail (and we know they did it), it is not his responsibility anymore.

Naturally one can use the F31 figures from the website as a reference (to discover that questioning the F31 stability is ridiculous...), but one can not be sure that today's Corsair 31 will behave as predicted for the F31.

And before you ask: five and a half years and counting. Folding system operational, mast half rigged, sails follow next.


Luiz
Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: Ian_Farrier] #105502
05/04/07 05:57 PM
05/04/07 05:57 PM
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Thank you for the responses. The link does help to clarify.

Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: Luiz] #105503
05/05/07 12:08 PM
05/05/07 12:08 PM
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Annapolis,MD
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Luiz,
Strictly speaking, these days anything built by Corsair is now called a C-XX, even if the boats are unchanged from Ian's original designs. So, F-28r is now C-28r, F-24 is now C-24, etc. If your boat was built before that change the name it's still going to be referred to as a "C" boat. The only models not being renamed are those out of production, ie F-27 is still an F-27, F-24 MKI is still that. The sail insignia is changed to reflect this as well.

The 31 went through a couple of iterations originally, some being built in Australia. Up through the F-31r Ian had input, the new 1D updates are Corsair's.

Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: Luiz] #105504
05/05/07 07:03 PM
05/05/07 07:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 351
Dallas, Texas
thom Offline
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I'm getting the interior painted and will be sailing in June if the Jet Stream will loop north and allow a High cap to come in and give us some sunshine. If not I will sail to work instead because we will surely be mostly under water...

Agian, I want sailing pics

thom

Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: thom] #105505
05/05/07 09:10 PM
05/05/07 09:10 PM
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Quote
I want sailing pics


I hope you (and I) live long enough to see them... I am not pushing things, but it will sail. Eventually.

BTW, never sail to work. It would ruin your sailing day.
If you want to mix work and sail, call your boat "Work Meeting". You'll be able to tell the truth to the boss or wife questioning your absence: "I'm in a Work Meeting".

Cheers,


Luiz
Re: was C 31 Stability now f/C24-Long boring post. [Re: Timbo] #105506
05/06/07 06:50 AM
05/06/07 06:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
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Dallas, Texas
thom Offline
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The 24 was the most competitive class but not it appear the F/C28R is the dominate class. I have sailed on one 24 and it was a little wet but spray was the main source. Its fine in big wind if sailed properly. It can not be sailed like a sled...none of these boats is a sled. I would try to crew for someone in your area. This is easier than you think because most times the skipper is looking for a crew.

As for the F25c -IF BORED NOW DO NOT READ!!! The F25c was made in molds by Colorado Composites who was a subcontractor to MPG Marine. A strict layup schedule and check list were followed on all 48 boats. The molds were vacuum bagged then the different pieces were put into a custom oven and baked. Most were partially assembled at the factory to the extent that the bulkheads, forward bunk, amas, hinges,etc were installed by the eight guys in the crew. Some of the first had fair to poor prep and the paint [usually Awlgrip] developed minor problems. There is little head room. There have been noted problems with the balsa core when boats are left on the water. If the boats are removed and allowed to dry out they do better. I don't know of any kits that are unfinished now. As for speed this tri reacts directly to the abitity of the crew sailing. Spray is less of an issue on this boat than the 24.

The F28R is a one design class that is campaigned in several areas. Its alot roomier inside than the 24,25c and the deck is more flat. If you want one design this is the way to go for now. Some of the top guys are racing this tri at Key West.

The C31 1D is also a one design class with measurement/ weight certificates while the F31R,RS,etc are more or less grouped together. This boat gets some spray as well but less than the others. When looking at them side by side the 31 appears awesome.

As far as awesome goes the F33R and F35c are it in my opinion. I inspected an F33R made in Austrailia being assembled in Houston and have seen pics/videoof the F35c. These are state of the art Farrier tris that when seen in person literally increase the blood pressure by 30 point...

But when looking at what all these cost to buy and maintain you should research this thoroughly.

Alot depends on where you are going to sail as well as how many boat bucks [1 boat buck =$1,000.00] you can spend.

I would look into the new F22 on the Farrier Marine web site. This tri is being built around the world by several people.

If not interested in that new age tri [F22] I would look for a starter F24. If you want something bigger after a couple of years they are generally easier to sell/trade in. Many of theres have been totally redone and some never have been on the ocean. I saw one on Lake Ray Roberts last month that was almost perfect.

fair winds,

thom

Re: was C 31 Stability now f/C24-Long boring post. [Re: thom] #105507
05/06/07 03:25 PM
05/06/07 03:25 PM
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I would love a F33 they are sweet and I honestly trust Farrier more than Corsair but we're talking big $$$$ there

Re: was C 31 Stability now f/C24-Long boring post. [Re: PTP] #105508
05/07/07 03:37 PM
05/07/07 03:37 PM
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Dallas, Texas
thom Offline
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If you are capable?? build a F22 and then an F32R...

thom

Re: was C 31 Stability now f/C24-Long boring post. [Re: thom] #105509
05/07/07 07:41 PM
05/07/07 07:41 PM
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Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Here's a thought I had a while back. Build (or buy) a F22 center hull and akas, then add Inter 20 hulls for the Ama's, also use the Inter 20 mast and sails. A "poor man's" trimaran that could also be un-done back into an Inter 20 when the need for that might arise. What do you think?


Blade F16
#777
Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: Luiz] #105510
05/07/07 08:11 PM
05/07/07 08:11 PM
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Dallas, Texas
thom Offline
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It is my understanding that Farrier and Corsair parted ways in 2000. On the Farrier Marine web site this is explained in detail.

thom

Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: thom] #105511
05/11/07 05:21 AM
05/11/07 05:21 AM
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Having been one who has pushed my F31R very hard and to the limits (but not beyond) I can say that it is very stable, so much that I race with my wife, and two kids who are now 8 and 11. They have been sailing/racing since they were 3 wk old, either on a F27 or the F31R.

We have reached a max GPS speed of 29kt during a race, but that probably included a 4-5 kt current, at the same time a Firebird capsized while crossing the starting line. I have launched the boat off a wave completely heading out to Block Island, I have stuffed the bows to the point that water was past the mast and all the crew including myself thought we were doomed (the boat rounded up and set back down right side up), and flown the main hull in 30+ winds with full main (not fast, but fun) in Naragansett Bay, RI. Sailed in 12-15' seas off of Gloucester, 20-30' swells around Block Island. I would never think of taking my family on a mono and pushing it as hard as I did the tri. So For stability I would say the F31R is excellent. Having had both the F27 and the F31R, the 31R, when reefed, feels very much like a F27.

The 31R1D utilizes the same shapes, but sports a larger main/jib, rudder, daggerboard, etc... It's a faster boat.

I would never think to take a F24 in winds over 20 or seas over 3-4' These conditions are extreme on this boat. Or at least the couple that I have hear of capsizing were racing at the time and pushing the boat pretty hard I imagine (we were way ahead at the time so we didn't see it happen.)

Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: jdaf31r] #105512
05/11/07 07:18 AM
05/11/07 07:18 AM
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Sebring, Florida.
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Thanks for the report. I would love to "go large" and get a 31R but money is a big issue with two of our 4 kids starting college in August. I think I'll start small and see how the family likes it, if they don't, I will be go to racing beach cats...alone.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: jdaf31r] #105513
05/11/07 11:01 AM
05/11/07 11:01 AM
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SF Bay
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I've owned an F-27 and am currently in the process of buying an F-31R. If you are out on SF Bay during the season (Apr - Oct) then you are out in 20+ knots of wind...that's just the bottom end from early afternoon on and continues until sunset and will often go up to 30 knots and then add in the gusts. F-24s seem to handle the conditions fine....but you need to be in foulies because it's going to be wet...and it's not a fine spray. F-24s have done open ocean racing here too - like the doublehanded Farallons and done well. That can be a pretty rough race. I wouldn't hesitate to sail an F-24 in 20 kts. The F-24 is really a do most anything (but distance open ocean) kinda' boat. I haven't gotten one because I also like cruising and the accommodations are REALLY spartan for staying onboard.

Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: jcmjrt] #105514
05/11/07 12:32 PM
05/11/07 12:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
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Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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I read that an F24 just won the SF Bay speed sailing event? Do you have any info on that? Were there no F31's in the race or was it on corrected time? Was it Russel Long driving or something?


Blade F16
#777
Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: Timbo] #105515
05/11/07 03:54 PM
05/11/07 03:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
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Dallas, Texas
thom Offline
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Did you hear from Davenport about his 24??

thom

Re: Corsair 31 Stability [Re: Timbo] #105516
05/11/07 04:09 PM
05/11/07 04:09 PM
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SF Bay
Well, Puppeteer (F-24) won the singlehanded Farallones a couple of weeks ago - race and division ...maybe that's what you heard. I believe that was sailed by Davis...and I don't think there were any other F boats or any other kind of multi entered.

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