may I point out that there hasnt been any advancement in boat building in 25 years.
The so called "high tech" is 70s technology... The "modern" blade F16 with its tortured ply construction is 40s aero technology..
The basis for the hobie line-up is 50s technology.. The rotomolding is no diferent in essence to water tank drum industry of the 50s...

The only developmen has been in hull design and rig... Here again the A cat is simple..

*shrugs*

So what would a truly modern building technology be, and what would the advantages in a procession environment be?

nomex/carbon/epoxy was used on colour 7 at least 2 decades ago.. The only difference is the epoxy.. Back then it required an autoclave these days vac bagging and a warm box is all that is needed.. I believe kevlar was used in 18teens before carbon if not was around the same time..
what else? foam? not sure apart from minor improvements in composition has faom changed..

I cant think of any hull technology that isnt 70s.. This is evident in the total lack of decrease in weight with respect to boats since the drafting of the mosquitos and tiapans..
The only improvment is perhaps the use of these technologies, hull design, foils and rig... But even in rig we are behind the C class development work of the 80s when it comes to efficiency...

All the technologies you describe was developed in the space programs. For new technologies we need to look at what NASA and ESA are doing (I disregard India and China, as I believe they are playing catchup). Problem is that they have not developed significantly new technologies either, so the civilian market dont have anybody to pick up new tech from.

Now, do we need new technology for beachcat hulls? Isn't the current top technology producing 'light enough' boats? If we could build 18foot hulls weighting 5kgs each, would that be an advantage? I think there is a crossing point somewhere, but where?

18ft hulls weighing 10lbs or so? Wow... interesting to contemplate. can you imagine how much more inportant skipper/crew weight positioning would be? Everything would be mid boom/ front beam sheeting.

I think what we need is technology that will allow hulls, both light and heavy, to be built more inexpensively! And that does not necessarily require "modern" technology.

I'm waiting for someone to come out with a basketweave design for hulls. Or a design for carving hulls out of blocks of styrofoam (a la the Snark).

If money is no object, I'm sure the technology must be available to build a boat that is light as a feather but as strong as steel.

I'm content with the current level of technology.

I would not be willing to pay more at this time.

Rolf, you really gotta find a ride one one of the F16s! As proof of technology, take a Blade out "lazy" rigged (main only; no jib, no spin)in wind 15knots and up. You won't believe it! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My friend and I have been considering carving a hull and structure out of foam for a moth, except use something better than styrofoam (it tends to soak up water over time).

There is a dedicated boat builders 5 axis mill nearby that make large scale moulds all the time. It should do the job.

Another little anecdote from a conference I attended on yacht design. The speaker had worked on a kiwi americas cup design many years ago when aluminium hulls were normal but the rules allowed fibreglass hulls. The rules were worded so that you could only build a fibreglass hull if it weighed the same as an aluminium hull. The whole point of building in fibreglass at the time was to reduce the weight of the hull so instead of doing the weight estimate for a standard aluminium construction, they designed an aluminium boat that was to be milled out of a solid billet of aluminium! This way they could have the most efficient aluminium structure with no weight for welds and the calculations could be based on the un-welded aluminium strength (which is higher than welded aluminium). I believe it was physically possible to do it at the time, although the cost would've been incredible! But they didn't need to actually do it, just prove that it was lighter so that they could build a fibreglass boat to that weight.

What still seems to be lost on many in this forum is the biggest innovation that the Adventure Island presents... the Hobie MirageDrive.



This is our first purpose built sailing product that includes the MirageDrive. That, I believe, qualifies this as an innovative sailing product... yes, using many "old" technologies as well. You do not need breakthroughs in materials... to have a breakthrough product.

MirageDrive Flash Demo

Ad

So? Hobie pays for a full pager in the hard copy of Catsailor. Matt didn't start this thread.

ST[sentence enhancer]U

Another thing that seems to be forgotten by the techies is the cost/benefit ratio.

A Hobie 16 cost $1,200 in 1973. That's "only" $5,586 today, whereas a new H-16 in 2007 is $8,700.

One of the reasons the initial Hobies were so popular is that they were affordable.

The Adventure Island is only $3000 in 2007. That would have only been $644 in 1973. The affordability factor is huge.

An America'c Cup boat? Thats a whopper of a chunk of aluminum. How would be my question.

I bought a new main for my mono from Neil Pryde (Florida).

The sail was designed in New England.

The design/parameters were emailed to China.

The sail was was cut and sewn in China.

Shipped to Florida (from China)

Then shipped to Georgia.

And 20% less than than the rest.

Gee there are some really biased post on this thread, ANYTHING that is relatively safe, gets people off their fat rear ends away from TV, computers, and “video” games, and out onto the water has to be good for all types of water activities, - even sailing -, so although this is obviously not “the future of sailing”, it is still all good.
It just surprises me a little at how this thread turned into an active blatant free plug for Hobie? (Not that there is anything wrong with that, as Sienfeld would say). I must say that sailing cats is my first preference by a country mile, but I still appreciate and encourage ALL other forms of water sports, and although I do feel that there has never been anything detrimental to sailing from Hobie (quite the reverse) a few of the people sailing Hobie cats over the years should have taken a more tolerant view of the other many sailers and sailing craft than they have, particularly when the 14’ and 16’ were at their peak of popularity. Positive action and deeds can only serve the “greater good” better than derision heaped on the non-Hobies by the few over the years. (A compliment brings a smile; a derogatory word is never forgotten)
I love the concept of the drive system Matt and would love to know who it was who actually came up with the Hobie adaptation of this principal for use in the Hobie Kayaks? The principal has been known for many years but to my knowledge has never been adapted before for any commercial use (with the possible exception of Gondolas and their like).

Yes the drive is fantastic, but it has nothing to do with sailing.

Seems like all the wizzy technology is being done out in the Mojave desert at Scaled Composites.

http://www.scaled.com/index.html

Technology is already there <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Inexpencive, too

So it’s obviously that the Adventure Island (or the Island as I call it) is not the future of sailing? How in the heck do you know, how in the heck does any of us know? Now I don't know either but I believe Cats are not the future of sailing. I believe Cats will continue to have a respectable future, but products like the Island that are simple to set up, sail great, and when there is no wind you can actually move and have fun with is what people are finding so amazing about this product. Also the average person/sailor wants a boat they can set up in just a few minutes, get on the water, and have fun with. Rick White is having great success with the Waves, another boat that is simple to sail and have fun on, and race. And again the H16 continues to be very successful. If you try to drop your biases a little and just look at the meat of the substance of what people or the average sailor wants you would quickly understand why Hobie now has 4 roto-molded sailboats and continues to be successful with the H16. You all are getting stuck on the same old track again about new technology/material for hulls, etc. Most people/sailors do NOT give a rats’ ___ about whether a boat is built of carbon, Kevlar, fiberglass, plastic, or crap for that matter, just as long is its simple to sail and set up, plus are able to have great fun on, then you have a winner. Of course it has to be a great product like the Island. You really need to try an Island to appreciate it and when there is no wind you will appreciate it even more.

Pete, I do intend to get my own F-16 this year. A homebuild Blade with a shortened Tornado mast on top. Looking forward to that!




16nut, are you actually foaming around your mouth? Havent we already covered this several times in this thread? Would love pictures of you flying a hull on your defecated boat. Probably cheap to build as you can supply the materials yourself, but it would surely be a stinker. (sorry, I am begin childish. Couldn't resist.. I'll go away now)


Vladimir, the russians are really taking that technology further. Do you know how long these boats lasts?

Vlad, very nice looking boat, but no trapeeze? What does it weigh and how high can you fly a hull before the rudder is out of the water?