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New A Class #106954
05/14/07 03:05 PM
05/14/07 03:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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Luiz  Offline OP
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Asuncion, Paraguay
A bunch of enthusiasts recently launched the A Class in Brazil. It was cheaper to make the tooling than to pay outrageous import duties, so they decided to build locally. As one would expect in a development class, they ended up with a new design: the SambA Cat. Some information here. One picture attached, more pictures attached to the next posts.

Attached Files

Luiz
-- Have You Seen This? --
Second picture [Re: Luiz] #106955
05/14/07 03:07 PM
05/14/07 03:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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Second picture attached

Attached Files
108110-SambACat1.jpg (367 downloads)

Luiz
Third picture [Re: Luiz] #106956
05/14/07 03:08 PM
05/14/07 03:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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Third picture attached

Attached Files
108111-SambACat2.jpg (328 downloads)

Luiz
Fourth picture [Re: Luiz] #106957
05/14/07 03:10 PM
05/14/07 03:10 PM
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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Flyer attached

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Luiz
Re: New A Class [Re: Luiz] #106958
05/14/07 03:15 PM
05/14/07 03:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
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Atlanta
Pretty blue water...oh and the boats nice too.

Re: New A Class - blue water and price [Re: bvining] #106959
05/14/07 03:52 PM
05/14/07 03:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Cold transparent blue water is the norm in Buzios because the city is in a cape right north of "Cabo Frio" (Cold Cape), where the land forces a deep cold current from Antartida to surface.

By the way, I forgot to mention price info: about USD 12.000 for an (all carbon/kevlar/epoxy) boat, including rudders, daggerboards, crossbeams glued to hulls, mast, boom, beach wheels and a pair of supports for the transoms. The hardware is probably from Nautos. Local sails currently under development.

And that's what I know - until I test it in Rio... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.
More details with Gual Naldi at gual@br.northsails.com or gualnaldi@yahoo.com.br


Luiz
Re: New A Class - blue water and price [Re: Luiz] #106960
05/14/07 04:55 PM
05/14/07 04:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel

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Sebring, Florida.
Are the boats being made in Rio? Or is that where you will get a ride?


Blade F16
#777
Re: New A Class - blue water and price [Re: Luiz] #106961
05/14/07 08:24 PM
05/14/07 08:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
old hand
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2017 F18 Americas Site
[Linked Image]

I cannot image it looking any closer to an A2 or A3. Pete and Jeremy ought to be proud. Isn't copying the highest form of flattery?

Re: New A Class - blue water and price [Re: Timbo] #106962
05/15/07 11:02 AM
05/15/07 11:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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Luiz  Offline OP
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They are made somewhere in Bahia state (some hundreds of miles north of Rio).


Luiz
Re: New A Class - blue water and price [Re: Dan_Delave] #106963
05/15/07 11:10 AM
05/15/07 11:10 AM
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Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline OP
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I guess you are right. It seems like they just wanted to improve details of the best existing design. The bow looks a bit sharper and, if my memory doesn't fail, the foils are also different.


Luiz
Re: New A Class - blue water and price [Re: Luiz] #106964
05/25/07 05:25 AM
05/25/07 05:25 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3
B
balance Offline
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Interesting how these guys who build the Samba have taken from me (without permission) the image renderings of my design Balance A-Cat. PLEASE do not use my images with commercial purposes for your boat. Sito Aviles. www.balance-an.com

Re: New A Class - blue water and price [Re: balance] #106965
05/25/07 07:09 AM
05/25/07 07:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 48
Zurich
Daniel_Gut Offline
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Zurich
They look like two very different boats to me, rocker lines different, beam positions different, volume different, but they are both catamarans so I suppose you could call it a copy.

regards

Daniel

Re: New A Class - blue water and price [Re: Daniel_Gut] #106966
05/25/07 07:54 AM
05/25/07 07:54 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 545
Brighton, UK
grob Offline
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Brighton, UK
Daniel,

If you compare the flyer that luiz posted and the pictures on balances web site they have clearly copied balances design, pretty low thing to do in my opinion.
From balance
[Linked Image]

Gareth

Re: New A Class - blue water and price [Re: grob] #106967
05/25/07 08:44 AM
05/25/07 08:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 48
Zurich
Daniel_Gut Offline
newbie
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Zurich
Hello Gareth

One person is saying they copied the A2/3 you are saying they have copied the Balance. What they have done is use the picture from the Balance website, seemingly without permission, that I agree is generally considered to be bad form. From the pictures posed here any talk about copying is speculation and premature. And with all due respect to Balance, why would they (the Entrepreneurs in Brazil) go to the trouble of copying a boat that has not proved itself anywhere yet. I have yet to see one.

regards

Daniel

Re: New A Class - blue water and price [Re: Daniel_Gut] #106968
05/25/07 08:56 AM
05/25/07 08:56 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3
B
balance Offline
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Posts: 3
Daniel, you are mixing arguments. The only thing I said is that they used the images I created, not that they copied my boat. If you have doubts about the performance of the Balance A-Cat you just have to follow the resuls of last year Vela di Pascua in Cessenatico, www.seipi.it/vdp_06/dva_fin_ass.htm, where two Balance A-Cats ESP-1701 and ITA-1, took 4th and 6th places in different legs out of 63 boats, not a bad proof.

Re: New A Class - blue water and price [Re: balance] #106969
05/25/07 09:18 AM
05/25/07 09:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 48
Zurich
Daniel_Gut Offline
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Daniel_Gut  Offline
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Posts: 48
Zurich
@Balance

You didn't say it, but Grob did.
I don't have any doubts about the balance, I don't know it, but my logic says that if I were to go to the trouble of developing something new, I would "base" it on something that has consistantly been seen at the front of big international fleets. The Balance is still a very new boat and not that well known yet. I hope to see one at the German nationals next weekend. Thank you for the reply

regards from Zurich

Daniel

Re: New A Class - blue water and price [Re: Daniel_Gut] #106970
05/25/07 09:31 AM
05/25/07 09:31 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3
B
balance Offline
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Hi Daniel, unfortunately there will not be a Balance A-Cat at the German nationals but yes at the Europeans to be held in Murcia, Spain, from 8th-16th June; if you are coming you are invited to test the boat if you like.

Kindly,

Sito

Re: New A Class - blue water and price [Re: Daniel_Gut] #106971
05/25/07 09:50 AM
05/25/07 09:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 545
Brighton, UK
grob Offline
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grob  Offline
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Brighton, UK
I guess I ought to make it clear that I am not saying that anyone copied anyones boat, but they have clearly copied the design image on that flyer, seemingly without permission.

Gareth

Re: New A Class - blue water and price [Re: balance] #106972
05/25/07 09:54 AM
05/25/07 09:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 185
Shanghai, China
Dirk Offline
member
Dirk  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 185
Shanghai, China
Design and certain details remind very much to Bunkenburgs early Nikita project as well as the Morelli & Melvin Wateraft/A2. Not sure than how reasonable it is to claim copyrights. Nothing wrong so with searching for inspiration. After all the Italian noodles taste much better than the Chinese origins... ;-) Evolution is mostly based on small improvements. So hope you did find the right balance!


Dirk A-Cat GER 5 F-16 CHN 1 (sold) SC 6.5 CHN 808
Re: New A Class - blue water and price [Re: balance] #106973
05/25/07 11:26 AM
05/25/07 11:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 395
LA
Acat230 Offline
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LA
Quote
Interesting how these guys who build the Samba have taken from me (without permission) the image renderings of my design Balance A-Cat. PLEASE do not use my images with commercial purposes for your boat. Sito Aviles. www.balance-an.com


Agreed, it was improper and in a business sense unethical to use the Balance images in the Samba promotional flyer. They should change that immediately.

Nice looking boat though. There's nothing wrong with looking at what is out there and either coming up with a copy of the best or your own interpretation. My impression of the boat is it looks a lot like the DK17 "big boy" A-Cat developed here in the US. It looks to have more hull volume than the A2/A3 and/or the Flyers.

With a mast and rig and not including shipment, the price should come out around $19K for a sailaway.

Bob Hodges
USACA
USA 230

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