Hi, anyone know of a decent car-top cat to build or buy?

I know Woods designs sells a "Pixie" and Wharram has "Hitia 14 plans. Someone selling a Hobie 13 claimed it would be suitable (though the low buoyancy floats don't look too appetizing to a 200lbs adult like me). There seem to be plenty of them around where I live too, so that would be nice, if it is truly car-toppable (without having to take the ol' grinder along).

I'm mainly looking to single hand, and take the kids out when its calm. It also needs to be low budget, so a second hand boat would probably be the preferred solution.

I posted a question along these lines before but the plans have changed.
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...;amp;page=0&fpart=4&vc=1

Any advice?
Thanks,
Dennis

Where do you live? And what is a Hobie 13? If you are talking about the Hobie Wave, which is 13 feet long, that has extremely high buoyancy in the hulls. Maybe there is another boat in Europe or elsewhere that you are talking about?

The Topcat line of cats are designed to be carried on top of a car:
http://www.topcat.de/e/index.htm

I live in the Netherlands, so the Hobie 13 is probably a Europe-only design. It looks (to me) very much like the original Hobie (thin asymmetric banana hulls & boomless pin-top main) it obviously predates the Wave and I doubt they still make them. In the other thread Mary suggested the Wave too, but there aren't any around here (that fit my budget).

My idea (now) is to be able to single hand mostly (80%) and take along either one other adult for fun (but no real need for speed) or two children.

When Single handing, I'd like a fair dose of performance (considering the relatively small boat of course) and when sailing with company I only care that it doesn't dig in to the point of submerging the tramps continually...

Car topping looks like the ideal way for me to be able to go sailing anywhere I can park the car near the water, which means there are some small lakes nearer by. This makes it feasible to take the boat out regularly for an evening of solo sailing.

Dennis

I'll definitely put that on my short list! Looks a lot like a Dart at first sight.

I car top my Hobie Bravo all the time its one piece so no need to dismantle, and its light. The boat sails great (much faster than a Laser or any monohull in its class) and is fast. Also the Wave Classic is designed to be easily dismantled for car-toping. And the Hobie Adventure Island is also awesome to car-top. I might add all these sailboats are extremely durable.

Windrush 14 was designed as a cartop boat.. Hulls fold in and the way to do it is on the sites easlily found on the net. This boat is made with foam core hulls etc these days.

you could look at a "kittycat".. they are designed for home build and take two adults.

The Sprint 15 would fit the bill; Was called the Dart 15.

Website is www.sprint15.com

Is it only me or does this sprint 15 have an insanely small jib and questionable mast rake?

looks like a great little boat!

you mean that the rake looks forward in your attachment? I think that little pic is skewed- the boat is more stern down in the water than that making the mast straight up or a little aft rake. yes, jib small

Hobie had a 11 foot cat called the 3.5 for a couple of years. There was one on ebay a few months back.

Yes, the boat is skewed but even after that the mast is forward and I just thought that in todays world a foil and roller furler would be a good thing.
Not knocking the boat as all things can do with an update.
I am clear that the thing most important to car-topping is the roof rack system. many boats should fit the bill.

Interesting discussion, not original topic, but what the heck!

Isn't mast rake supposed to be designed in? What I mean is, it's all about balancing the center of effort of the sail plan with the center of lateral resistance, right?

As I understand it mast rake percé isn't good or bad if the boat is neutral on the helm, or is it?

Am I missing something? (I come from from a Mono background, and before that surfing, where mast rake is continuously adjustable)

Dennis

That pic is a little skewed.

They are great little boats. Wife owned one a while back and they are very simple. Yes the jib is small, but a fair number sail them in "sport" mode which is single handed with main and Jib and trapeze.

They are good boats. Simple and a good giggle, Don't have the performance in the light stuff, but a good scream when windy.

Looking over the options it appears I have several:

Hobie 13 (A Europe-only model?)
This appears feasible though I'd have to find out how easy it is in practice.

Hobie Wave classic
I think this boat is a little too heavy to put on the roof. My rack can only officially hold 80Kg (approx: 180lbs)

Hobie Bravo
This seems a little small for taking a friend out or preferably two kids. Besides I'd like a trapeze.

Hobie Adventure Island
This boat is like a small trimaran. It doesn't look like what I want. More of a regular beach cat.

Topcat K3
Now this boat really appeals to me. It appears extremely practical and the Texel rating is not too bad either.

Windrush 14
I don't think they ever show up in this neck of the woods. Otherwise it looks great.

KittyCat
Too "classic" for me. Makes the original Hobie look hi-tech.

Sprint or Dart 15
Very interesting boats. I'll keep my eyes peeled for a second hand one, probably a Dart then.

Someone recommended an A-cat via PM. I like that idea but could only afford one if I built it myself. Even then it would be stretch (in many ways probably).

I also found a Nacra 4.5 on the 'net. Anyone know if this is car-toppable? Size and weightwise it could be...

I think Nacra 4,5 must be car-toppable. Here is my cat in size and weight similiar to Nacra, it can be car-topped easily.

I had a good laught out of this one !

That 9.15 mtr mast is not cartoppable by a loooooong stretch. Sure the boat is light enough to be placed on top of a car but the police will have a ball with that mast sticking out 3 meters on either side. Not too mention you'll be hooking every lamppost in corners of the road or picking off cyclist and truck drivers. You will be sweaping the road with that mast on top of your car !

Additionally the platform (nearly always glued together and therefor can't be disassembled) is still 5.49 mtr long and 2.3 mtr wide. That is quite a large object on top of your car !

I think the other criteriums you stated were "... take the kids out when its calm. It also needs to be low budget ..."

Humm !

Being in the Netherlands myself I can tell you the Police has gotten really strict with enforcing the rules in the last couple of years. Even with a trailer for your boat there is a high risk of getting a ticket these days. Quite a few buddies of mine have gotten one when trailering to and from an event. I wouldn't risk carrying something like an A-cat on my roof with the way things stand now.

Wouter

What were the tickets for? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Is this something we should be wary of when travelling to the GC in August?

Most of the tickets are given in june and juli because the police get midevil on the scores of rickety caravans and campers getting out of storage. So august should be better. But Cat sailors get tickets for not having the mirror extenders or a striped signal plate at the rear end of the mast/trailer. There most also be reflectors on the side of the trailer (orange). Often they also try to nail you on the rule that no part of the load may be head of the trailer hitch, but most often you can talk your way out of that one. Just make sure the mast is mostly over you vehicle and not sticking out at the rear of the trailer too much. Rule of thumb, let the mast protrude as far forward as the most forward point of your roof (not windshield) that way you can claim that it doesn't obstruct forward vision or anything and that therefor it is the most save option.

They also try to get you on the max allowed width but the F16 (like you have of course) are 2.5 mtr wide and are at the limit of what is allowed, so here you just have to let them measure it and you'll be fine.

And make sure all your lights work and that you trailer has a number plate. Typically if they can find an obvious fault then you are going down. But if all obvious things are current and they have to dig for the rule book to make something stick then they'll let you go with a warning or something. Afterall having all the obvious stuff in order makes them believe you are consious and serious about complying and maintaining safety.

Note however that there are rules enough to totally ban your trailer and boat if they only dig deep enough. So never get snug with them. And remember that motorcycle cops are WAAAAAY more knowlegdeable about traffic rules then cops that are driving around in a car. With motorcycle cops be very friendly and accomodating and when he asks let him know who passionate you are about this sport of cat sailing. Often they can related to that being motorcycle enthousiasts and only reprimant you.

Stuff like that.

Now don't go thinking that this happens all the time, it doesn't. But it does happen regulary. For you guys coming over ones this year the risks are pretty small. For Dennis however cartopping his boat regulary, things may be different.

Wouter

Hmmm. divisible masts and self-built demountable boats aside it's good to know the police are monohull lovers out here...

I checked my car specs and they state I can only officially mount 75Kgs on the roof... I'll have to look into that some more as that could be a serious show-stopper.

Dennis

Dennis,
Where do you live?
I think you would be much happier when you leave your cat at a club and sail from there.
Groeten,
Tony.

Mirror extenders, striped plate at the back.. These are things not mandatory up here, so I would have gone straight into any trap set up. We have been trough several technical checks and weight checks with our trailer with the Tornado on top, and never had any trouble. Are these rules you refer to mandatory within the EU, or some special dutch rules?

I'm not sure what the law says, but IMHO it depends on the mood of the cop in question. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Tony, at the moment I live in Roosendaal, but I'm not sure I'll be hanging around here for very much longer. It depends on where I end up finding a job.
I used to leave my boat at a club, but it felt like I spent more hours doing slave labor than sailing my boat...
That, and the costs for winter storage and a berth all started to add up. Is it all much more affordable with a cat?

sorry to take this thread off at a slight tangent, but W's comments have got me a bit concerned too.

In the UK we're not required to have orange sidelights or a striped plate on the mast. Also, although the boat is 2.5m wide, my trailer is about 2.54m wide due to the hull supports and the tie-down loops. It's never been a problem in the UK (yes I have been stopped and checked) and also wonder if the Dutch might require brakes on a trailer as large as ours, even though it doesn't actually weigh all that much?

Do these Dutch rules apply to visitors as well or just Dutch registered vehicles? Can I find these rules anywhere on the web (in ENGLISH)?

I just asked this question on an unofficial police forum. That forum is frequented by a number of the motor-officers Wouter was talking about. I hope they do have some English info for you. If I get a reaction I'll translate and post it here.

There's one answer:
The guy says the vehicla and trailer must conform to the rules that apply in the originating country. The load (the cat) must be marked according to Dutch law.

Dutch law means among other things that you need a 50cmx50cm red/white striped plate, with a light if you are going to be traveling in darkness or diminished sight conditions.

The width would be OK because there is an exception for "indivisible loads", as there is for length (masts). Masts can not stick out more than 5meters behind the rearmost axle of the trailer.

Hope this helps,
Dennis

Hmmmm 2.54 metres! I may be out of date but thought that UK law (towing vehicle below 3500Kg) stated a max trailer width of 7'6"(2.29M) with a permissable load overhang of 12" (0.3M) either side. Hence the motorway warning signs for loads over 9'6"...... Are your hull supports on separate/extending arms and hence possibly not classed as "trailer" but load/supports?

Thanks Dennis, it looks like I'll have to take a good look at the way we're set-up. In the UK I know that I can get a red/white striped triangle, but are you saying it needs to be a 50x50 square? Is the illumination white or red?

Cheshire, I don't know how they're classified, but I got pulled near home on my way back from Datchet last year and all was OK.

It's definitely a square (I believe one is mandatory in France and Belgium also)! Lights are only needed if driving at night, and to be honest I've never actually seen one with lights on a boat before... If you get one with lights the forward facing light needs to be white, the rear facing light needs to be red.

Dennis