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Re: Cartop Cat? [Re: Jalani] #109345
06/13/07 04:30 AM
06/13/07 04:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Most of the tickets are given in june and juli because the police get midevil on the scores of rickety caravans and campers getting out of storage. So august should be better. But Cat sailors get tickets for not having the mirror extenders or a striped signal plate at the rear end of the mast/trailer. There most also be reflectors on the side of the trailer (orange). Often they also try to nail you on the rule that no part of the load may be head of the trailer hitch, but most often you can talk your way out of that one. Just make sure the mast is mostly over you vehicle and not sticking out at the rear of the trailer too much. Rule of thumb, let the mast protrude as far forward as the most forward point of your roof (not windshield) that way you can claim that it doesn't obstruct forward vision or anything and that therefor it is the most save option.

They also try to get you on the max allowed width but the F16 (like you have of course) are 2.5 mtr wide and are at the limit of what is allowed, so here you just have to let them measure it and you'll be fine.

And make sure all your lights work and that you trailer has a number plate. Typically if they can find an obvious fault then you are going down. But if all obvious things are current and they have to dig for the rule book to make something stick then they'll let you go with a warning or something. Afterall having all the obvious stuff in order makes them believe you are consious and serious about complying and maintaining safety.

Note however that there are rules enough to totally ban your trailer and boat if they only dig deep enough. So never get snug with them. And remember that motorcycle cops are WAAAAAY more knowlegdeable about traffic rules then cops that are driving around in a car. With motorcycle cops be very friendly and accomodating and when he asks let him know who passionate you are about this sport of cat sailing. Often they can related to that being motorcycle enthousiasts and only reprimant you.

Stuff like that.

Now don't go thinking that this happens all the time, it doesn't. But it does happen regulary. For you guys coming over ones this year the risks are pretty small. For Dennis however cartopping his boat regulary, things may be different.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Cartop Cat? [Re: Jalani] #109346
06/13/07 04:53 AM
06/13/07 04:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 431
Netherlands
DennisMe Offline OP
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DennisMe  Offline OP
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Netherlands
Hmmm. divisible masts and self-built demountable boats aside it's good to know the police are monohull lovers out here...

I checked my car specs and they state I can only officially mount 75Kgs on the roof... I'll have to look into that some more as that could be a serious show-stopper.

Dennis

Re: Cartop Cat? [Re: DennisMe] #109347
06/13/07 05:18 AM
06/13/07 05:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
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Quote
Hmmm. divisible masts and self-built demountable boats aside it's good to know the police are monohull lovers out here...

I checked my car specs and they state I can only officially mount 75Kgs on the roof... I'll have to look into that some more as that could be a serious show-stopper.

Dennis


Dennis,
Where do you live?
I think you would be much happier when you leave your cat at a club and sail from there.
Groeten,
Tony.

Re: Cartop Cat? [Re: Wouter] #109348
06/13/07 05:27 AM
06/13/07 05:27 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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West coast of Norway
Mirror extenders, striped plate at the back.. These are things not mandatory up here, so I would have gone straight into any trap set up. We have been trough several technical checks and weight checks with our trailer with the Tornado on top, and never had any trouble. Are these rules you refer to mandatory within the EU, or some special dutch rules?

Re: Cartop Cat? [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #109349
06/13/07 06:13 AM
06/13/07 06:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Quote
Mirror extenders, striped plate at the back.. These are things not mandatory up here, so I would have gone straight into any trap set up. We have been trough several technical checks and weight checks with our trailer with the Tornado on top, and never had any trouble. Are these rules you refer to mandatory within the EU, or some special dutch rules?

I'm not sure what the law says, but IMHO it depends on the mood of the cop in question. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Re: Cartop Cat? [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #109350
06/13/07 06:15 AM
06/13/07 06:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 431
Netherlands
DennisMe Offline OP
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DennisMe  Offline OP
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Posts: 431
Netherlands
Tony, at the moment I live in Roosendaal, but I'm not sure I'll be hanging around here for very much longer. It depends on where I end up finding a job.
I used to leave my boat at a club, but it felt like I spent more hours doing slave labor than sailing my boat...
That, and the costs for winter storage and a berth all started to add up. Is it all much more affordable with a cat?

Re: Cartop Cat? [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #109351
06/13/07 10:04 AM
06/13/07 10:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
sorry to take this thread off at a slight tangent, but W's comments have got me a bit concerned too.

In the UK we're not required to have orange sidelights or a striped plate on the mast. Also, although the boat is 2.5m wide, my trailer is about 2.54m wide due to the hull supports and the tie-down loops. It's never been a problem in the UK (yes I have been stopped and checked) and also wonder if the Dutch might require brakes on a trailer as large as ours, even though it doesn't actually weigh all that much?

Do these Dutch rules apply to visitors as well or just Dutch registered vehicles? Can I find these rules anywhere on the web (in ENGLISH)?


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: Cartop Cat? [Re: Jalani] #109352
06/13/07 01:39 PM
06/13/07 01:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 431
Netherlands
DennisMe Offline OP
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DennisMe  Offline OP
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Posts: 431
Netherlands
I just asked this question on an unofficial police forum. That forum is frequented by a number of the motor-officers Wouter was talking about. I hope they do have some English info for you. If I get a reaction I'll translate and post it here.

Re: Cartop Cat? [Re: DennisMe] #109353
06/13/07 03:50 PM
06/13/07 03:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 431
Netherlands
DennisMe Offline OP
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DennisMe  Offline OP
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Posts: 431
Netherlands
There's one answer:
The guy says the vehicla and trailer must conform to the rules that apply in the originating country. The load (the cat) must be marked according to Dutch law.

Dutch law means among other things that you need a 50cmx50cm red/white striped plate, with a light if you are going to be traveling in darkness or diminished sight conditions.

The width would be OK because there is an exception for "indivisible loads", as there is for length (masts). Masts can not stick out more than 5meters behind the rearmost axle of the trailer.

Hope this helps,
Dennis

Re: Cartop Cat? [Re: Jalani] #109354
06/13/07 04:47 PM
06/13/07 04:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 266
UK
Cheshirecatman Offline
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Cheshirecatman  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 266
UK
Hmmmm 2.54 metres! I may be out of date but thought that UK law (towing vehicle below 3500Kg) stated a max trailer width of 7'6"(2.29M) with a permissable load overhang of 12" (0.3M) either side. Hence the motorway warning signs for loads over 9'6"...... Are your hull supports on separate/extending arms and hence possibly not classed as "trailer" but load/supports?

Re: Cartop Cat? [Re: Cheshirecatman] #109355
06/14/07 02:25 AM
06/14/07 02:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Thanks Dennis, it looks like I'll have to take a good look at the way we're set-up. In the UK I know that I can get a red/white striped triangle, but are you saying it needs to be a 50x50 square? Is the illumination white or red?

Cheshire, I don't know how they're classified, but I got pulled near home on my way back from Datchet last year and all was OK.


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: Cartop Cat? [Re: Jalani] #109356
06/15/07 08:13 AM
06/15/07 08:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 431
Netherlands
DennisMe Offline OP
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DennisMe  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 431
Netherlands
It's definitely a square (I believe one is mandatory in France and Belgium also)! Lights are only needed if driving at night, and to be honest I've never actually seen one with lights on a boat before... If you get one with lights the forward facing light needs to be white, the rear facing light needs to be red.

Dennis

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