I have a couple of Hobie's that I am able to leave with the masts and jibs up; so I am constantly trying to streamline putting other stuff...such as the rudders....on.

For years, I have been using rudder pins that have holes for cotter pins on both the top and the bottom of the pins; also, I have been using both of the pin holes all of the time.

Do any of you have any experience/thoughts on just using the cotters on the top of the rudder pins....and letting both friction and the long length of the rudder pins keep the pins from working up from the bottom?

Let me know your thoughts! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

The problem with not using the lower cotter key is the chance of losing the rudder assembly if you capsize. Use the lower hole and install a quick pin (safety pin # 20503) or ring for easier removal. You can even use the standard cotter key with a very slight bend.

If the rudder pins slide in and out easily use some type of pin. If they're a press fit, it's a pretty slim chance they'll come out if the boat goes over. JMHO

Make sure you are using a good heavy pin to hold the rudder pin in place. I had a pin fail in the middle of a race (top one of course), and the rudder pin slipped out the bottom. There I am sailing along wondering why my rudder just came off the back of the boat. Needless to say, that ended my sailing for the weekend.

Always have a spare rudder pin at beach. If not for failure, just for misplacement.

Carry one in your spares kit on board. Why struggle back to the beach?

true enough. I wonder if anyone has ever had to make thier way home after loosing both rudders? That would be a learning experience.

You can steer with the main and jib (if you have a jib) but it takes some practice. The main will head you up, the jib will pull you away from the wind.

Funny you should say that;

A few months ago, in a race on Botany Bay [Oz], on a reach with no kite, my complete rudder system parted company with the boat and was lost overboard. The complete system, blades, stocks, cross control rod and tiller extension, somehow found a way to push itself past the spring retainers, [bending them substantially] and launch itself off the stern!

A Nacra eventually came to my assistance, offering me his shackle key which when thrown from about two meters missed my tramp and hit the water headed for the bottom. My helper, on reflex, dived over the side to retrieve the tool and his boat sailed away without him. 2 boats out of control, one with and one without a skipper.
After much yelling, whistling, and arm waving and while helplessly sailing away from him with main fully eased, I was able to attract the attention of some helpers on a Tornado for my swimming buddy and have a message relayed to the rescue boat.
After two failed attempts from a] a fishing runabout, and b] the rescue boat, which arrived aprox. half an hour later, I eventually made it back to a beach not far from the club under my own steam.
Lucky the wind was favorable.

My would-be savior's boat was eventually retrieved from a beach 20 odd kilometers away.

So to answer your question, rudders do get lost off the stern.

If you have your paddle not too aweful.
Otherwise a very good reason to have dagger boards.

Do people steal them?

if your boat is a TheMightyHobie18, i am faily certain that the rudder pin can not make it's way out the top as it will hit the lip that runs around the perimeter of the hull. in fact the pin can't come out the bottom with the drain plugs in place. therefore no cotter pin is necessary except to keep the pin out of the way of the drain plug during hull draining.
for a pin to come out the top on a H16, you need to turtle, have the rudder cam come unlocked, and have smooth working rudder pins. it has happened, and that's why they started putting the cotter pins on both ends at some point.

Rudder pins can work their way upwards (against gravity). Never sail without some kind of retainer. How about split rings in the bottom?

I had fiberglass pins in my 16; left there from a beach race the previous outing. Out double-trapped on a rough day when one pin snapped; quickly followed by the other. Eventually let go of the tiller as the boat was trying to flip over backwards (still on the wire), and watched the whole kit sink as the hotstick did a "down periscope" move :-( You can easily turn up with the main and jib, and turn a little downwind, but no way you can turn a 16 very much downwind with the main up. We reached across the river we were on, got to a beach, took the main down, and sat on the bows and sailed backwards to our launch site steering with our feet and the jib. If you use 'glass pins, use a safety line to tie the rudders to the boat!!

Yes the glass pins are evil. I lost the whole starboard rudder assembly (castings, tiller arm, and brand new Hobie racing blade) to the fiber pin coming apart at the Seacret's Cup on my 18. The pins were brand new before the race, didn't even last the whole regatta.

The Hobie 18 does not need a cotter pin in the bottom hole of the rudder pin, only the top. The deck flange will not allow the pin to move upwards.

The Hobie 16 needs a cotter pin in both the bottom and top because the pin passes through the deck flange. If the tiller arm is lifted up, the pin can travel upwards.

sm

That is why I usually tie a piece of line to the tiller crossbar and then to the tramp lacing. If the pins break you won't loose you rudder assembly.

Doug