Area A and B
Roton Point



So, for those of us who make these events happen... What is the point if nobody is interested?

If they dont want to compete I am sure others will take their spots. In essence why not?

I was discouraged about this until I realized that the way things are set up right now, there are no consequences for someone who wants to go the the Championship, but does not participate in the national ladder. How can you fault sailors for deciding to sail in whatever class they choose?

It should be noted that the A/B event was tagged onto an existing event at Roton Point - I have found that by NOT piggy-backing an Eliminations onto an existing event, participation grew.

What I would like to see is the "petition" slots at Alter Cup go away. Many sailors don't make the effort to qualify because they believe they can submit a petition at the last minute and get in - and they're largely right. I would rather see a Championship that only hosts current class champions and winners of Area events. The petition slots were intended to help out people with legitimate scheduling conflicts - it is a process that is much abused in my opinion. I only have one vote when reviewing petitions, but I will not be looking favorably on any petition that comes in from someone who couldn't be troubled with either attending the event to sail somewhere else, or who elected to not participate in the qualifying fleet.

Want to offer up excuses? Before you reply, make sure that you understand that it is up to you to make things in your Area run the way you want them to. If you don't like the venues getting selected or the dates that are chosen, you need to be discussing that with your Area Rep. What, you don't have one? There you go. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Can we get numbers for other areas? What are other parts of the country seeing for support for these events?

I've been around for 10 years or so, can't say I remember ever seeing more than 10-15 boats at one of these in Area A. Granted, that was back when Area A and Area B were separate, so theoretically, there should be at least double that since the Areas are combined. That was also back when we were seeing 60 boats at points regattas.

However, this past weekend there were competing events in Area B (CMOR) and neighboring Area C (a Hobie points regatta in NJ). Scheduling issues have been discussed on this forum before, it's not an easy thing to fix (host club restraints, nearby events, etc.).

We used to have this as a stand-alone event in Area A at the Lipton Cup, hosted by Quincy YC (no other multihull classes were racing one-design at the event). Area B used to mix it up (hold in conjunction with an existing Hobie event, in Madison), as was done at Roton. What are other places doing, and what results are you seeing?

If this event is going to continue, it needs a grass-roots revival. You can't "force" anyone to enter this event, if it's going to continue, we need to promote it and get people to WANT to attend. If it's stand-alone, it's going to cost more (per boat), plus all crew must be USSA members.

Having said that, there were no Hobie points regattas for the past two years in Area A. Most of the Fleets are defunct, and the ones that remain are essentially trying to rebuild. Not sure that the non-Hobies are doing much better (although they DO have a racing series, so they are doing something right).

So, if we can't get people to points regattas, which are viewed as lower-key and less expensive, how are we going to rebuild interest in the Alter Cup qualifier?

By the way, I am pointing out facts that we need to overcome. For the record, I am in most definitely in favor of rebuilding this event, and am more than willing to help if asked.

Mike

Edit: For those that are wondering, this has been a "rebuilding year" for me personally, with the 10-month old, we haven't raced at all. I've done a bunch of RC, when/wherever invited. The 2006 Hobie 16 waits in the backyard, having only sailed a handful of times EVER...

Agree with John. We in Area L, see increased interest when the Alter Cup Qualifier is held as a separate event. As far as National interest, just look at all the current posts that include comments on the area qualifiers. Much more than in the past.

Really want to make a comment, and make a difference?, show up at the US SAILING AGM in Phoenix see http://www.ussailing.org/events/meet07fall/

The USMH(Adult)[Alter Cup] meeting is at 11:00AM Saturday 10/27. The meeting is open, and I am sure Chair Jake Kohl would welcome your input. If you can not attend, be sure to pass on your feelings to your Area Rep.

Caleb Tarleton

I agree with what John says. These events are much more enjoyable if they are run separately. I recall several years ago, our Area D qualifier was run in conjunction with the Outback Cup and it was a bit of a decision regarding what fleet to run in and honestly the racing wasn't that good because of all the separate starts and such. When you have one fleet one start (even though it is Portsmouth) it's much easier to know what to expect on the water. Everyone is a competitor and there for the same reason. I do enjoy our individual qualifier and our attendance is on the rise ever since we began making it it's own event.

As long as it's one start with overall handicap scoring, there's no reason you can't break out fleets and give fleet awards as well.

With a 4-year-old of my own, Mike, I feel your pain. It gets better.

Eliminations scheduling and participation numbers for this year are listed at http://ussailing.org/championships/adult/USMHC/alter08/elims0708.asp - I will look up some past attendance numbers. We are markedly down across the board so far this year.

I know what has worked in making Area D a successful, stand-alone event - some of this is cut-and-paste from a note I sent to the Area L guys recently.

Pick a date and stick with it; we put Area D South in very early November (still very moderate weather for us) so it would not conflict with anyone’s Nationals. It slightly extended our season, and everyone was sharpened by months of sailing leading up to the event. November is not likely an option for everyone, I know, but you you get the idea. Everyone knows we sail the qualifier the first weekend in November – the venue changes each year, but people know when it will happen. We picked the date in close cooperation with the various fleets and clubs in the region.

Selecting the venue is important, too – you have to choose someplace that is fair to everyone. For example, some venues in the South would love to host a Qualifier, but just don’t have the water depth in November for boats with deep daggers. The Area Rep has the pleasure of selecting the venue, but they have to cater to the fleet without bias in this regard. Reps may have to actively pursue venues at first, but now Area D South has clubs lined up several years out, with two clubs asking to host the event permanently.

One of the most important factors was getting a yacht club involved with quality race management. Once people saw that the event was managed well, they had a lot more faith in it.

Good race management, rotating venue, a fixed date – these are the things that helped grow the Area D South Eliminations from a disorganized, last minute, same-five-boat, off-the-beach event to a 20-30 boat, anticipated, respected, stand-alone regatta with clubs asking for the chance to host the next one. It took three years to get it on track, and 10 years to make it what it is today. You can talk about this stuff endlessly when trying to get people to attend, but making it happen with consistency, year to year, is the ONLY way people will buy in.

I certainly don't have all the answers and I don't claim to be clued in to a higher truth. The things that have been done in Area D were put in place with utmost respect for the Championship and making it an event people would WANT to attend, and it has worked. People want to go to the Championship. That part is done. Now we have to apply some consistency in the national ladder to give it some credibility.

Well, you guys are all basically saying the same things I'm thinking, which is good to hear. The petition issue is something I never considered.

Roton Point has always been an outstanding venue, wind or no wind. They have good RC, and we have several multihull- experienced, USSA-certified ROs in the area (certified ROs are required for this event level). Quincy always had great RC, but access for beach cats was challenging.

I like the fixed-date idea. We could probably pull that off in late September or early October, but again, with neighboring events so close, it may take some creativity.

BTW, not racing this year isn't Hunter's fault, it's a choice I made in the spring. Since Michelle wouldn't be sailing with me, rather than find another crew, I decided to advance my race management until she decides she's ready to get back on the boat. Not sailing is driving her nuts too, so hopefully next year, we'll be back in the swing of things. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mike

I am the primary care-giver and my wife went back to work as quick as she could to escape the sleeplessness. After a year I realized that my not racing was driving HER crazy - now she regularly kicks me out with, "isn't there a race going on somewhere?" Ain't she a peach? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes she is, maybe they're related???

For those of you who don't know (probably not too many), I met Michelle at a Learn-to-Sail-Catamarans event in 2000. She got bit hard by the bug, and we were racing together by the end of the year. We got engaged at the Hobie NAs in DE, had over 30 Hobie sailors at the wedding, etc.

We still have the RV, with full intentions of bringing a sitter next year so we can race again. I'm happy to say that she is fully on board! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I wasn't going to get away with naming the baby Hobie, so we settled on Hunter... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mike

Is your baby made from plastic by chance?

...and they were married in a castle.

...and yes, there should be qualifiers.
CMOR would be a great place around here as people already go. If it was also a qualifier, that would be a bonus.
As always, there are only a very few that can win, so it must be a great event first.

...and tangets can be fun.

John had some good suggestions, anyone else have suggestions or examples of what works well elsewhere?

I also agree with Pat, since the areas were combined, the event hasn't moved out of New England, has it?

Mike

The area B rep position is vacant... anyone from upstate NY want to step up to the plate? There's been interest by several to host the qualifier up there, what better way than to become the rep and host it?

Wildtsail

Is the problem the rep/venue/date ???
or is the problem... the region's sailors just don't care.

So consider three possibilities as possible solutions to... they just don't care.

Three possible mission statements for the qualifier.

the Alter qualifier is another well run regatta in your area...

The qualifier is your regional championship which crowns a champ across all one design fleets....

The qualifier just a way to select from the handfull of sailor who would attend the championship in the spring.

I am sure the regatta differs for all competitors and probably must have elements of all three missions.


So if you think about it.. If the qualifier is just another regatta... the question is.. Do we need another regatta on the schedule. If it's a championship... Do the sailors believe that regatta is a legitamate way to recognize a champion among several classes. Finally, If the regatta is just a way to sort through the 3 or 4 teams who would like to and be able to go to the campionships... Perhaps we should reconsider the regatta at all because it is silly to run a regatta for 3 boats.



Seems to me, that the Alter qualifier has to have space on the regions' calander. a fixed date is great... but it presuposes the schedule needs this event to be complete.

It can't be gumballed onto an already busy regatta schedule because people only have so much time.

So, without these two features, I don't think any regatta has much of a chance.

So, what would make the regatta valuable after these two conditions are satisified?

Personally, I think the regatta must have value apart from just selecting the alter representative. Therfore, the idea that the even is the regional interclass championship has value for me. I would like to see the regions top A cat, Hobie 16 and F18 sailors attend.

Finally, if it were just to select the top sailor in my region, who also had the time, the cash, the crew, and the family scene to let them go race... I would probalby not be interested in making it happen.

Area H? Area H? Anyone? Bueller?

Hey 1616, You should contact the guys on Oahu sailing out of Kaneoe. They'd be down with a qualifier! Couple of good 20's out there too. They've pretty much got paradise as far as sailing conditions, launch site etc. There's also 2 other guys on Maui that might be interested. FX-one guy and Hobie Getaway guy. You might know them. Get something going out there!

This is something I feel very strongly about. If you don't feel it is worthwhile then you probably should step aside.

No offense intended, but Alter Cup and the qualifiers aren't just another regatta.

Yur puttin' the knife to my sacred cow, dude! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So... are you happy that the USA Pan Am representative was in a two boat fleet and went home after a day !?

Obviously, in New England.... He and the other guy were the only ones who cared about it

Sure in a perfect world, you would have a point.... but the fact is aprox 20 boats showed up and then punted on the qualifier.

Will the alter qualifier as a championship that has 3 boat qualifiers.. have any credibility as a US multihull championship.

Hell, yuou might as well just have an invitationl championship of champions.

Jeez Mark, calm down. I don't know anything about the Pan Am thingy.

My point is: don't let the thing make you apoplectic.

If no one cares, so be it.

I think catamaran sailing is in pretty good shape. At this point the qualifier system is sound and does not need any major adjustment. If your area has a qualified sailor, but not enough interest to hold a regatta, he (or she) could probably get in on petition.

Amending the petition process might be your solution.