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F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow #119424
10/05/07 10:24 PM
10/05/07 10:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
flumpmaster Offline OP
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The 2007 F18 North Americans starts tomorrow at East Beach, Galveston Texas. Saturday and Sunday will be registration and measurement, with a practise race on Sunday Afternoon. The racing gets underway on Monday morning and lasts all week.

This years event is a little different - the venue is a beach next to the ocean - a return to the true roots of the sport.

There is a great list of competitors - with several having already here and rigging their boats. Look out for more reports and photos during the week - posted here and on the Texas City Dike Yacht Club site.

[Linked Image]

Chris.


Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: flumpmaster] #119425
10/06/07 09:50 PM
10/06/07 09:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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Registration, weigh-in and sail measurements today. Interesting to see the new sail cut from Performance. The regatta volunteers have been exceptional in their accomodation of the fleet, paticularly those of us from far afield. Only a handful of boats sailed today - Tomko and Mischa were the first out in the late afternoon. There are at least a dozen Infusions already set up and several more showed up as the sun was setting. This looks to be a Tiger v. Infusion event with a couple of Nacra F18s and Capricorns thrown in for colour. Alot of new faces in the class this year - could be the venue or maybe we just got new sailors. I'm enjoying the relaxed, Texas attitude.

Tina and I are fully rigged, weighed and measured - looks like we'll be sailing a bit before lunch. Then dinner in Brian's killer motorhome and some Adventure Online video production. Brian has (no kidding) an inflatable couch set up with a green-screen for pre- and post-racing interviews. Have to wrap it up before the sun sets - the freakin' mosquitoes are sudden and vicious! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: John Williams] #119426
10/06/07 09:57 PM
10/06/07 09:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
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Quote
Registration, weigh-in and sail measurements today. Interesting to see the new sail cut from Performance.


what is different? curious.

Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: PTP] #119427
10/06/07 10:35 PM
10/06/07 10:35 PM

A
Anonymous
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Anonymous
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A



Guys:

John/PTP I will be down Wed taking pics and will try to hook up at Wed night party. We have to leave by 9 though as Bob has long drive back home.

Doug

Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: ] #119428
10/07/07 01:24 AM
10/07/07 01:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 736
Westport, Ma. U.S.A.
Brian_Mc Offline
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JW, I am so looking forward to those reports! Will you be anchorman again? Best of luck to you and Tina! This is going to be great! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: ] #119429
10/07/07 06:56 AM
10/07/07 06:56 AM

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Anonymous
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Quote
Guys:

John/PTP I will be down Wed taking pics and will try to hook up at Wed night party. We have to leave by 9 though as Bob has long drive back home.

Doug


Guys:

What are you sail numbers so I can find you guys easier? See you Wed.

Doug

Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: ] #119430
10/07/07 12:40 PM
10/07/07 12:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
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Nothing is different, Sails for the Infusion have not changed since launch in 2006


________________________
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Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: macca] #119431
10/07/07 08:59 PM
10/07/07 08:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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John Williams  Offline
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Quote
Nothing is different, Sails for the Infusion have not changed since launch in 2006


Sorry to disagree - I stood by as a new sail was measured. All the other Infusion sails were around 15.5 sq. meters. the new one is at 16.6 - completely legal under the class rules, but clearly and measurably different. Not stirring the pot, mate - 'dems jes the facts. Thanks for chiming in, though.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: John Williams] #119432
10/07/07 11:28 PM
10/07/07 11:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
flumpmaster Offline OP
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flumpmaster  Offline OP
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League City, TX
Quote
Quote
Nothing is different, Sails for the Infusion have not changed since launch in 2006


Sorry to disagree - I stood by as a new sail was measured. All the other Infusion sails were around 15.5 sq. meters. the new one is at 16.6 - completely legal under the class rules, but clearly and measurably different. Not stirring the pot, mate - 'dems jes the facts. Thanks for chiming in, though.


I'll back John up - A new nacra main that was measured had a slightly longer head, a little less in the foot and a longer luff - and it is certainly legal, but closer to the maximum area allowed. Will it make a difference? I think the biggest performance differentiators are talent, time on the water and big event experience, but the big dogs certainly look for every performance edge available.


Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: flumpmaster] #119433
10/07/07 11:34 PM
10/07/07 11:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
flumpmaster Offline OP
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flumpmaster  Offline OP
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Posts: 606
League City, TX
All boats and sails have been measured - bar a couple of stragglers, and most teams hit the water today to enjoy some great wind and waves.

We then fed 'em all some Texas BBQ and serenaded them with sounds of Rick's band (Rick is a TCDYC member).

There is a great mixture of teams from all over the continent who will be duking it out over the next week. Our photographer got some good surf action shots today - we should have some posted tomorrow evening.

*yawn* time for bed - we still have some last minute tweaking to do on our boat tommorrow - and I'm feeling stiff from all the dancing tonight!

Chris.


Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: flumpmaster] #119434
10/08/07 05:02 AM
10/08/07 05:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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North-West Europe

Everybody,

If the new mainsail is 16.6 sq. mtr. instead of 15.5 then is completely illegal. Unless john has made a typo. The F18 mast has a mast area of about 1.5 sq. mtr. So that needs to come out of the 17 sq. total as layed down in the class rules. This means no mainsail (ex mast) may be larger in area then 15.5 sq. mtr.

Do you have access to the area measurement ?

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 10/08/07 05:03 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: Wouter] #119435
10/08/07 09:22 AM
10/08/07 09:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
Seattle,Wa
Don_Atchley Offline
enthusiast
Don_Atchley  Offline
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Seattle,Wa
I would have never thought to subtract the mast from the allowed sq.mtr allowed to the sail.
Is this spelled out somewhere?
Thanks


Hobie Tiger 2003
Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: Don_Atchley] #119436
10/08/07 09:47 AM
10/08/07 09:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA
T
tshan Offline
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tshan  Offline
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T

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Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA
http://www.f18-international.org/F18_2007_Class_Rules.pdf

See page 6

Hopefully, the reported 16.6 includes the mast area and it is semantics on how it was reported...

Looks like a great crowd and a LOT of fun.


Tom
Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: tshan] #119437
10/08/07 10:56 AM
10/08/07 10:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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An extra 1.1sq. meter is quite a bit more sail area, especially if some of it is put at the top (wider square top). I'm guessing John mistyped and the actualy measurment is 15.6, not 16.6? The new wing type masts do develop quite a bit of lift on their own, so that area should be included in the total sail area.


Blade F16
#777
Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: Timbo] #119438
10/08/07 10:59 AM
10/08/07 10:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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TeamChums  Offline
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Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
No typo, it is 16.5.


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: TeamChums] #119439
10/08/07 11:33 AM
10/08/07 11:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Naples, FL
Is this what you're referring to?

B.4.1. MAINSAIL

B.4.1.1. [color:"blue"]The mainsail shall have a surface area of maximum 17.00m² including the mast.
[/color]
B.4.1.2. No part of the sail shall be above the upper mast band.
B.4.1.3. The aft head point of the mainsail shall not be above the head point.
B.4.1.4. Maximum Upper width at upper leech point 1500 mm from head point : 1290 mm
B.4.1.5. Maximum Top width : 1000 mm
B.4.1.4 & B.4.1.5: Sails with larger measurements can be measured and used until 01.01.2009.

And in reference to the mast:
[color:"blue"] B.2.1. MAST
The perimeter of the mast section shall be a maximum of 385mm. [/color]


Jay

Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: TeamChums] #119440
10/08/07 01:55 PM
10/08/07 01:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Sooo...is 16.6 leagal or not?


Blade F16
#777
Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: Timbo] #119441
10/08/07 02:09 PM
10/08/07 02:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
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Quote
Sooo...is 16.6 leagal or not?


The total allowed area is 17m2, so if your sail is 16.6 that only leaves 30m of mast surface (For reference, a Tiger's mast surface is 150cm).
It must be a typo, although 15.6 would still be quite large The Tiger's mast perimeter is 33cm, the Infusion mast is wing shaped
to its perimeter must be at least the same if not more (The maximum allowed is 38.5cm).

Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: Tony_F18] #119442
10/08/07 02:41 PM
10/08/07 02:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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North-West Europe
The Capricorn wingmast has a circumference of 0.365 mm (I have a section cut-off at home !) on a 9.15 mtr tall F18 mast this makes a total mast area (as defined in the F18 class rules) of 1.669875 or rounded off to 1.670 sq. mtr. The Tiger mast area (0.330 mtr circumference) is 1.51 sq. mtr.

If the Infusion mast has the same dimensions as the Capricorn superwing (very likely) then the cloth part of the mast+sail combo (= actual mainsail size) may only be 17.0 - 1.67 = 15.33 sq. mtr.

Anything over that will be ILLEGAL under F18 class rules.

If 16.6 is no typo then somebody is going to get very busy with a pair of sissors.

And 16.6 sq. mtr may well be enough grounds to start analysing whether this is indeed a simple cutting mistake. 1.3 sq.mtr difference is like adding two feet of cloth at the foot of the sail or halve a foot at the leech. You don't easily achieve that by an "oops" mistake.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 10/08/07 02:58 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: F18 North Americans gets underway tomorrow [Re: Tony_F18] #119443
10/08/07 04:53 PM
10/08/07 04:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
I've seen the measurement form which is automated and clearly adds the mast and sail area for a big bold total area. I would assume that the 16.6 figure provided also includes the mast.


Jake Kohl
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