| ISAF international class, why? #122150 11/04/07 02:20 PM 11/04/07 02:20 PM |
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 4,451 West coast of Norway Rolf_Nilsen OP
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Posts: 4,451 West coast of Norway | This started in the C-cat regulations thread, but I think it is best to stop the thread hijack. I am trying to find out why a class should work towards "ISAF international class" status. So far I have found: 1: You will not be able to call your "worlds championship" a "world championship" without participants potentially having trouble with ISAF and participation in ISAF governed events. 2: ISAF claim ownership of the RRS (racing rules): http://www.sailing.org/20479.php3: Some national associations helps financing transport to world championships within ISAF international classes. 4: Olympic classes are usually choosen from the international classes. Are there other advantages to becoming an ISAF international class? Most classes seem to work towards that goal, so there has to be some substance which I dont know about. I hope this dont turn into an "I hate ISAF" thread. I would really like to know what ISAF offers besides the stuff listed above. | | | Re: ISAF international class, why?
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#122152 11/05/07 08:47 PM 11/05/07 08:47 PM |
Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay Luiz
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Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay | Rolf,
In order to obtain the "International" status, a class must be present in a certain number of countries; have international organization; national organizations and enough support from a number of sailors and manufacturers. In other words: it must be a well organized and managed non-profit international association.
The silly "prizes" like allowance to use the name "worlds" and the like, are there mostly to stimulate the classes to remain organized and to expand in good order. The intention is not to punish smaller classes, but to reward the better organized ones.
There are a number of good reasons for doing this.
First of all, remember that international organizations were A LOT more complex to start, keep and manage before Internet times. Without a requirement to become organized and spread, most classes wouldn't bother to do so due to the work and cost (then) involved.
Also, without pre-defined requirements, one could build three boats, organize the "Backyard 10 Worlds" and have a World Champion among his three kids in a matter of days. Not really a problem, but this type of title greatly reduces the value of becoming a World Champion in more legitimate classes. Obviously there must be a floor to what is "officially" a World Championship.
I'd say that the advantages to the class are those inherent to the requirements themselves. If a class pursues the International status, it becomes more organized, more spread and more popular - this is exactly what a class needs in order to grow. And stimulating organized growth is ISAF's need and duty.
All the best,
Luiz
| | | Re: ISAF international class, why?
[Re: Luiz]
#122153 12/24/07 05:23 AM 12/24/07 05:23 AM |
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 4,451 West coast of Norway Rolf_Nilsen OP
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Posts: 4,451 West coast of Norway | I just found time to go trough some ISAF regulations regarding this. Pretty interesting reading in fact, if you are into philosophy. Ref: http://www.isaf.org/tools/documents/2007_partV-%5B797%5D.pdfAside from the points I posted earlier and the summary by Luiz, it appears to me that there isn't really much value in being an ISAF International class? So why are so many classes going trough with this? Is it just to get the status, to support the ISAF or ?? Luiz, I agree that going with a proven management structure once you reach a certain size can be a smart move. The crux is growing to that size. If a class have already grown to "recognized" or "international" size, why should they not have a look on the ISAF regulations, use what fits them, and remain free of the rest? I think it is silly that we appoint "World Champions" for each international class. It's a bit like having a world champion for the 100meters sprint in Nike shoes, and one in Adidas shoes. Yes, I think the floor is way to low even today and the title to be watered out rather a lot compared to e.g. track and field or gymnastics <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> | | | Re: ISAF international class, why?
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#122154 12/24/07 10:42 AM 12/24/07 10:42 AM |
Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay Luiz
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Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay |
If a class have already grown to "recognized" or "international" size, why should they not have a look on the ISAF regulations, use what fits them, and remain free of the rest?
Essentially the answer to this question depends on how the class sees its relationship with ISAF and/or the rest of the world. If they see it as a zero sum game, the best strategy is to compete with the status-quo, as you suggested. If they see it as a non-zero sum game, the best strategy is to cooperate with the existing organization and find a deal where both win. If the choice of strategy is in itself part of a larger negotiation (like the situation between multihulls and ISAF nowadays), the class may choose to take the zero sum strategy at first in order to achieve a better deal in the larger negotiaion. By the way, I remember my promise to let you (and others) know about my boat's performance. I am just taking a break before the first trial under sail. All the best!
Luiz
| | | Re: ISAF international class, why?
[Re: Luiz]
#122155 12/24/07 06:17 PM 12/24/07 06:17 PM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,253 Columbia South Carolina, USA dave mosley
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Posts: 1,253 Columbia South Carolina, USA | why dont we name every regatta a world championship just to screw with them? I'll Start.. 2008 Outback Cup World Champioship
The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27
| | | Re: ISAF international class, why?
[Re: dave mosley]
#122156 12/25/07 10:05 AM 12/25/07 10:05 AM |
Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay Luiz
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Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay | why dont we name every regatta a world championship just to screw with them? I'll Start.. 2008 Outback Cup World Champioship Not here, sorry. The club is ISAF's MNA for the country and this seams to mean something for the members.
Luiz
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