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ISAF international class, why? #122150
11/04/07 02:20 PM
11/04/07 02:20 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP
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West coast of Norway
This started in the C-cat regulations thread, but I think it is best to stop the thread hijack.

I am trying to find out why a class should work towards "ISAF international class" status. So far I have found:

1: You will not be able to call your "worlds championship" a "world championship" without participants potentially having trouble with ISAF and participation in ISAF governed events.
2: ISAF claim ownership of the RRS (racing rules): http://www.sailing.org/20479.php
3: Some national associations helps financing transport to world championships within ISAF international classes.
4: Olympic classes are usually choosen from the international classes.

Are there other advantages to becoming an ISAF international class? Most classes seem to work towards that goal, so there has to be some substance which I dont know about.
I hope this dont turn into an "I hate ISAF" thread. I would really like to know what ISAF offers besides the stuff listed above.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: ISAF international class, why? [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #122151
11/05/07 07:47 PM
11/05/07 07:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
Darryl_Barrett Offline
old hand
Darryl_Barrett  Offline
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Posts: 1,012
South Australia
That's about all of the "good" things Rolf - as to the last part - "don't turn this into an, I hate ISAF", that ties my hands IE if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything.

Re: ISAF international class, why? [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #122152
11/05/07 08:47 PM
11/05/07 08:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Rolf,

In order to obtain the "International" status, a class must be present in a certain number of countries; have international organization; national organizations and enough support from a number of sailors and manufacturers. In other words: it must be a well organized and managed non-profit international association.

The silly "prizes" like allowance to use the name "worlds" and the like, are there mostly to stimulate the classes to remain organized and to expand in good order. The intention is not to punish smaller classes, but to reward the better organized ones.

There are a number of good reasons for doing this.

First of all, remember that international organizations were A LOT more complex to start, keep and manage before Internet times. Without a requirement to become organized and spread, most classes wouldn't bother to do so due to the work and cost (then) involved.

Also, without pre-defined requirements, one could build three boats, organize the "Backyard 10 Worlds" and have a World Champion among his three kids in a matter of days. Not really a problem, but this type of title greatly reduces the value of becoming a World Champion in more legitimate classes. Obviously there must be a floor to what is "officially" a World Championship.

I'd say that the advantages to the class are those inherent to the requirements themselves. If a class pursues the International status, it becomes more organized, more spread and more popular - this is exactly what a class needs in order to grow. And stimulating organized growth is ISAF's need and duty.

All the best,


Luiz
Re: ISAF international class, why? [Re: Luiz] #122153
12/24/07 05:23 AM
12/24/07 05:23 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP
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Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP
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West coast of Norway
I just found time to go trough some ISAF regulations regarding this. Pretty interesting reading in fact, if you are into philosophy.

Ref: http://www.isaf.org/tools/documents/2007_partV-%5B797%5D.pdf

Aside from the points I posted earlier and the summary by Luiz, it appears to me that there isn't really much value in being an ISAF International class? So why are so many classes going trough with this? Is it just to get the status, to support the ISAF or ??

Luiz, I agree that going with a proven management structure once you reach a certain size can be a smart move. The crux is growing to that size. If a class have already grown to "recognized" or "international" size, why should they not have a look on the ISAF regulations, use what fits them, and remain free of the rest?
I think it is silly that we appoint "World Champions" for each international class. It's a bit like having a world champion for the 100meters sprint in Nike shoes, and one in Adidas shoes. Yes, I think the floor is way to low even today and the title to be watered out rather a lot compared to e.g. track and field or gymnastics <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Re: ISAF international class, why? [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #122154
12/24/07 10:42 AM
12/24/07 10:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Quote


If a class have already grown to "recognized" or "international" size, why should they not have a look on the ISAF regulations, use what fits them, and remain free of the rest?



Essentially the answer to this question depends on how the class sees its relationship with ISAF and/or the rest of the world.

If they see it as a zero sum game, the best strategy is to compete with the status-quo, as you suggested.

If they see it as a non-zero sum game, the best strategy is to cooperate with the existing organization and find a deal where both win.

If the choice of strategy is in itself part of a larger negotiation (like the situation between multihulls and ISAF nowadays), the class may choose to take the zero sum strategy at first in order to achieve a better deal in the larger negotiaion.

By the way, I remember my promise to let you (and others) know about my boat's performance. I am just taking a break before the first trial under sail.

All the best!


Luiz
Re: ISAF international class, why? [Re: Luiz] #122155
12/24/07 06:17 PM
12/24/07 06:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,253
Columbia South Carolina, USA
dave mosley Offline
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dave mosley  Offline
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Posts: 1,253
Columbia South Carolina, USA
why dont we name every regatta a world championship just to screw with them?
I'll Start..
2008 Outback Cup World Champioship


The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27





Re: ISAF international class, why? [Re: dave mosley] #122156
12/25/07 10:05 AM
12/25/07 10:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
veteran
Luiz  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Quote
why dont we name every regatta a world championship just to screw with them?
I'll Start..
2008 Outback Cup World Champioship


Not here, sorry. The club is ISAF's MNA for the country and this seams to mean something for the members.


Luiz

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