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F16 Future #123925
11/16/07 08:47 PM
11/16/07 08:47 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Mark P Offline OP
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Mark P  Offline OP
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Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
I haven't seen that many posts since the 'Alter Cup' about people receiving their new F16's not only in the US but UK and AUS. I know there are a couple in the process of being built and the sailors in Holland and Belgium have gone into hibernation but I do feel that as a Class we might be stagnating.
Some people might think that it is up to the manufacturers to market the Class as obviously it is in their interests to sell boats but I also think we as the current F16 sailors should help spread the word so to speak.
So to get to the point, what is the best way to get more people to appreciate and buy a brilliant F16 Cat? I don't want to get into a bun fight over the alleged virtues of this forum to the F16 Class. I want to know peoples views on how to keep the momentum going pretending this forum didn't exist
I'm sure that everybody who attended the Global Challenge went home feeling very happy with themselves for setting the real and personal international foundations of the Class but I am concerned that we aren't attracting new blood. Good marketing seems to be a good way to start but apart from this forum would you have realised or have heard about our Global Challenge. No, so we have failed in this respect for starters. So any other suggestions?


MP*MULTIHULLS
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Re: F16 Future [Re: Mark P] #123926
11/16/07 10:43 PM
11/16/07 10:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
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ive been trying to sell my boat to build the class locally, but no one bites.

Re: F16 Future [Re: Robi] #123927
11/17/07 07:44 AM
11/17/07 07:44 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

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Mark,

I also wonder how to grow the class further. The temperature on the forum is typically "winterish", so I dont think you should read to too much into it.

To build the class further I think we need more PR, more good events, a used boat market and the F-16 class spirit. Of these we are probably ahead of schedule (saturation!) with the PR on catsailing forums, but getting pieces into publications and newspapers should be a priority.
We need more good events with focus on having a good time, but still with excellent sailing. We need reports and pictures from those events to reach sailing magazines and websites. We have a chicken and egg problem with boats vs. events, but still it is important to get out information about the events so people can see that there is activity.
We need a larger used boat market with entry level prices. That is one of the great strengths of the Hobie16 class, there are boats available everywhere and at all prices. I know there is interest all over this country, but new or "almost new" boats are too expensive or too far away to pick up.
We need to build the F-16 class spirit, the "can do", "have fun", "great time", "go fast", "excellent dudes" feeling.

That is my toughts about how to grow the class further and faster without bringing in topics like the internet and the forum. If the class had a budget we could target areas and do some advertising, but "viral" marketing and "word of mouth" works pretty well.

Re: F16 Future [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #123928
11/17/07 09:04 AM
11/17/07 09:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,449
P
phill Offline

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phill  Offline

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Rolf,
You made some very good points especially
Quote
but getting pieces into publications and newspapers should be a priority.


Lets face it if your only PR is on a cat sailing forum your most likely to be preaching to the converted. We need to convert more people. Magazines and newspapers would be a good place to start giving us access to non cat sailors.

We could all start by getting a report published in local sailing magazines of the F16 GC. It may be old hat to us but it would be new to anyone who does not read this forum.
Just a thought.

Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F16 Future [Re: phill] #123929
11/17/07 09:29 AM
11/17/07 09:29 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

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While sailing the Tornado I usually wrote a small piece before an event and a report after events. I always got space on magazines websites, and often a shortened report and eventual pictures in the magazines. The same for the local paper. Magazines and newspapers loves free digital materials, especially if the journalist kan do some small changes to the text and publish it. Getting your work into magazines is easy, the only cost is some exposure of your name and sometimes some heavy editing of your text. Send your text and pictures to the sports people in the paper, or any journalist/editor of sailing magazines. It's easy!

(and dont forget to post a link or the same material here)

Re: F16 Future [Re: phill] #123930
11/17/07 09:51 AM
11/17/07 09:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Stewart Offline
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Stewart  Offline
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Posts: 953
Western Australia
A write up in Australian sailing may help.
The Blade coming onto full production and a review is in order...
Also the AHCP F16 "mini Capricorn" Viper would make interesting reading..
In addition I suggest "Multihull" and "wooden boat builder" probably both would die for professionally done pieces..

Re: F16 Future [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #123931
11/17/07 10:36 AM
11/17/07 10:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
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Quote
Mark,

I also wonder how to grow the class further. The temperature on the forum is typically "winterish", so I dont think you should read to too much into it.

To build the class further I think we need more PR, more good events, a used boat market and the F-16 class spirit. Of these we are probably ahead of schedule (saturation!) with the PR on catsailing forums, but getting pieces into publications and newspapers should be a priority.
We need more good events with focus on having a good time, but still with excellent sailing. We need reports and pictures from those events to reach sailing magazines and websites. We have a chicken and egg problem with boats vs. events, but still it is important to get out information about the events so people can see that there is activity.
We need a larger used boat market with entry level prices. That is one of the great strengths of the Hobie16 class, there are boats available everywhere and at all prices. I know there is interest all over this country, but new or "almost new" boats are too expensive or too far away to pick up.
We need to build the F-16 class spirit, the "can do", "have fun", "great time", "go fast", "excellent dudes" feeling.

That is my toughts about how to grow the class further and faster without bringing in topics like the internet and the forum. If the class had a budget we could target areas and do some advertising, but "viral" marketing and "word of mouth" works pretty well.


Problem is that people buy boats; Love them to bits and so don't well them !

As for PR, I have Jeremy Evans (Y+Y) booked in to do a "sail test" on My F16; we've just not managed to meet up and makle it happen; and it's now getting cold !

I'll drop him another email and see when he wants to do it <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Been a touch busy with more pressing matters in the last couple of weeks <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: F16 Future [Re: scooby_simon] #123932
11/17/07 12:11 PM
11/17/07 12:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 549
Knokke-Heist - Belgium
Gilo Offline
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Posts: 549
Knokke-Heist - Belgium
I agree with Phill that this forum isn't the place to do marketing for the class. It's an excellent place to help new sailors getting to know their boats and so on...

According to me there are 2 ways to approach the market, both should be used.

1 talk to the manufactures, a difficult thing to do.
I already contacted Boulogne concept marine (Cirrus) and Nacra Europe. Both selling 'F104' at the moment, so they didn't say they'd change their platforms right away. Still Cirrus did not really know about the F16 or that it was an active community.... In that way it was kind of a good result. I think if you can remind them of the F16 once in a while and get them interested it could be a good thing.
Still got Hobie on my list....

2 approach the buyers.
At the moment Kathleen and I are trying to rework the F16 flyer and maybe someone should also make or distribute a A4 or A3 poster that could be hung out at club houses.

As we said before also the F16 logo should always be in the sail. That way interested people know what to look for on the internet.

A newsletter could also be set-up to send out. You can send it to other catsailors you know, to constructors, .... Just to make F16 something common, something that is talked about.

Alter Cup. I think it is a great concept and should be tried out more. Maybe not as a real race, but get introduction weekends with at least 5 to 10 boats. It's nice to see on the beach and a lot of people can be reached.

Last and maybe most important, racing. We should compete in international regatta's (and the best would be to beat a lot of FXOne, Inter17 and ofcourse F18 or at least be as good as them).

Something interesting could be monitoring the F16website and checking number of vistors, where they come from, search words, ... We had a small article in a belgian sailing magazine for example and it would be nice to see if that had any effect....

Regards,
Gill


Falcon F16 - BEL666
Boats: TheBoatShop.be
Stories: bladef16.blogspot.com
Re: F16 Future [Re: Mark P] #123933
11/17/07 02:52 PM
11/17/07 02:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
Smiths_Cat Offline
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Posts: 571
Hamburg
Hi Mark,

I am/was looking for a new boat. Soon I read about F16. So yes, the presence of F16 is good, if you are already in touch with beachcats or use frequently internet. My problem was: It is difficult to get a F16, if you are not in UK or the Netherlands (or close to it). No dealer in Germany, France and southern Europe, the big markets. I guess that the UK and Dutch market is saturated now, for a further growth you need new markets.
I know from some people, that they are interested in F16 or T4.9, but go for other boats due to availablity or price.

Overall the marketing is wrong in my opinion. It comes along as high tech racing boat, sometimes even as "nearly-as-fast-as-F18". There are so many other "HT" cats out there and people want to buy fun rather then speed. Actually the boat is light weight and it is the best replacement for the Dart 18. That are the points which has to be promoted, there is no other class (and very few competetor boats) out there, which offers this aspect of sailing.

If you promote the boat in such a way and if there are sufficient dealer, you could hopefully reach more people.

I hope that this will help you.

Cheers,

Kolja

Re: F16 Future [Re: Smiths_Cat] #123934
11/17/07 08:13 PM
11/17/07 08:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,187
38.912, -95.37
_flatlander_ Offline
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Posts: 1,187
38.912, -95.37
I agree totally with Kolja. While in it's pure sense this is a racing boat, its' attributes may be very attractive to a lot of sailors, if marketed correctly. I think Hans Giesler, with the G-Cat F16, hit a home-run and the boat went nowhere. Simple, deep-vee hulls, no boards. The low weight can be so attractive to many older and aging sailors. Can we assume the boat does not have to be rigged with the 3rd sail to be a fun recreational boat? and no doubt faster than a TheMightyHobie18 for instance.


John H16, H14
Re: F16 Future [Re: Mark P] #123935
11/18/07 07:38 AM
11/18/07 07:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 98
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
WillLints Offline
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 98
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
I've got two little ideas about promotion. One, the thing that sets this class apart from most is that it can be done (race or sail) one up or two. Some clever wording that expressed that would be helpful. "Do It, one up or two, with spinnaker".

The other thing, in my late fall and early spring sailing there was always interest from sailors and non sailors. They would say, "What is that". IMO the boat labeling is too much about the manufacture and not enough about the class. In this country people are not acquainted with the formula idea. When they see
"F 16" they are pretty sure that it is 16 feet long, but the F could be Frank, Fitzgerald, Fun.......? I'd be OK with big letters down the side of the hull that spelled it out, "Formula 16". Then they can think, Where do I get one?


Will_Lints
one-up, Blade 706, epoxy bottoms
Re: F16 Future [Re: WillLints] #123936
11/18/07 08:14 AM
11/18/07 08:14 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Quote
big letters down the side of the hull that spelled it out, "Formula 16".


Excellent idea IMO.

Re: F16 Future [Re: ] #123937
11/18/07 04:35 PM
11/18/07 04:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline
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warbird  Offline
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Bay of Islands, NZ
If wanting to build recognition I think "FAST16" would catch more than Formula. The idea that "formula" somehow aligns the boats with formula one racing is lame so why be attached to the word.
I would go so far as to say the title of the class SHOULD be changed to that because Formula 18 will always outgun the glass in the publics eye....like formular one against formula three.....formula three is always the youngies class.

A logo on all boats would be great but many might not like that request.

NO ONE other than cat racing geeks can see the diference between these boats. Often on a beach an actual sailor will come up to me and ask if my boat is a this or that.......they just see catamarans that are newish or older and can get the difference between a 14 and an 18 because the size ratio is substantial enough to be obvious.
Logos mean so much and F16 says nothing to most people. "FAST16" people can understand and will not forget.

A weight restriction on the heavier boats like the T which sent lighter people onto the FAST16 platform would also help.

Before the purist write at me about the word formua representing what the boat actually is and the reasoon the boat is constructed to specific measurements making it a "class" which speaks to its racing format.....no one out there cares...that is geek stuff.

The Hobie 16 is recognised by millions, not because they know what it looks like and can pick it from another boat but because it is a name they have heard.........formual 16 formula 18 formula 14.......the average joe will never care.

A Normie out there will at present think a Hobie 16 is much sexier than an F or Formula 16 because of the name. Having a groovier F on the logo will mean nothing out on the street.

Even the "FAT16" would be better, speaking to the fat top sails.....creating a vision in the people eye of romance.

Re: F16 Future [Re: warbird] #123938
11/18/07 05:18 PM
11/18/07 05:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 549
Knokke-Heist - Belgium
Gilo Offline
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Knokke-Heist - Belgium
Warbird,

I do think 'Formula' and the racing aspect of the class is an important thing.
When I talk about the F16 at our club people think it's interesting to sail a platform where you can also race on elapsed time. The F18 is very well known and famous in Europe, so in Europe it's really to sell the class as a formula class.

Regards,
Gill


Falcon F16 - BEL666
Boats: TheBoatShop.be
Stories: bladef16.blogspot.com
Re: F16 Future [Re: Gilo] #123939
11/18/07 07:06 PM
11/18/07 07:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Quote
Warbird,

I do think 'Formula' and the racing aspect of the class is an important thing.
When I talk about the F16 at our club people think it's interesting to sail a platform where you can also race on elapsed time. The F18 is very well known and famous in Europe, so in Europe it's really to sell the class as a formula class.

Regards,
Gill


Agreed.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: F16 Future [Re: scooby_simon] #123940
11/18/07 07:45 PM
11/18/07 07:45 PM

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Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Totally!

Re: F16 Future [Re: ] #123941
11/18/07 10:01 PM
11/18/07 10:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
tback Offline
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Orlando, FL
Quote
Quote
big letters down the side of the hull that spelled it out, "Formula 16".


Excellent idea IMO.


How about vertically down the mast?


USA 777
Re: F16 Future [Re: ] #123942
11/18/07 10:04 PM
11/18/07 10:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
W
warbird Offline
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warbird  Offline
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Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
Quote
Totally!



I expect this reaction and understand it, I think in a similar way.

The formula would not change, nor any of the rules. You could still discuss all of those geeky bits with people but while you retain the "Formula" label as your primary name I think you will have to accept being the "lighter", "smaller", less commercially groovy class to F18 and therefore find it harder to grow interest.

And before you start wittering about what is best and why, you are speaking to the converted (I have a Taipan) so save it. I am talking specifically about creating interest in outsiders, it is a shallow world and label is everything.

Re: F16 Future [Re: warbird] #123943
11/18/07 11:07 PM
11/18/07 11:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 17
France
tom_in_fire Offline
stranger
tom_in_fire  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 17
France
I guess people who will spent between 10k and 15k for an F16 know exactly what the word Formula mean. I also think that F16 is high performance boat and therefore it seems to me that performance is the best way to market it (like F18). Then I agree on the fact that F16 should compete as most as they can in regatta to be seen.

I don't think the logo will do a lot of difference, as people who are interested in F16 are already "catamaran geek". That's fine because F16 are not rotomolded cat, they are no build for everyone.

For me, the most important things that has been said here about this issue is the number of manufacturer in southern europe and the possibility to compete on elapsed time.

Just my 2 cents...

Ciao,
tom_in_fire.

Re: F16 Future [Re: Mark P] #123944
11/19/07 07:36 AM
11/19/07 07:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
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F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Sail more. The more people who see the boat, the better.

I've stopped worrying about. A few people will sail, most won't.

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