| F16 Future #123925 11/16/07 07:47 PM 11/16/07 07:47 PM |
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 954 Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K Mark P OP
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Posts: 954 Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K | I haven't seen that many posts since the 'Alter Cup' about people receiving their new F16's not only in the US but UK and AUS. I know there are a couple in the process of being built and the sailors in Holland and Belgium have gone into hibernation but I do feel that as a Class we might be stagnating. Some people might think that it is up to the manufacturers to market the Class as obviously it is in their interests to sell boats but I also think we as the current F16 sailors should help spread the word so to speak. So to get to the point, what is the best way to get more people to appreciate and buy a brilliant F16 Cat? I don't want to get into a bun fight over the alleged virtues of this forum to the F16 Class. I want to know peoples views on how to keep the momentum going pretending this forum didn't exist I'm sure that everybody who attended the Global Challenge went home feeling very happy with themselves for setting the real and personal international foundations of the Class but I am concerned that we aren't attracting new blood. Good marketing seems to be a good way to start but apart from this forum would you have realised or have heard about our Global Challenge. No, so we have failed in this respect for starters. So any other suggestions? MP*MULTIHULLS | | | Re: F16 Future
[Re: Robi]
#123927 11/17/07 06:44 AM 11/17/07 06:44 AM |
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 4,451 West coast of Norway Rolf_Nilsen
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Posts: 4,451 West coast of Norway | Mark,
I also wonder how to grow the class further. The temperature on the forum is typically "winterish", so I dont think you should read to too much into it.
To build the class further I think we need more PR, more good events, a used boat market and the F-16 class spirit. Of these we are probably ahead of schedule (saturation!) with the PR on catsailing forums, but getting pieces into publications and newspapers should be a priority. We need more good events with focus on having a good time, but still with excellent sailing. We need reports and pictures from those events to reach sailing magazines and websites. We have a chicken and egg problem with boats vs. events, but still it is important to get out information about the events so people can see that there is activity. We need a larger used boat market with entry level prices. That is one of the great strengths of the Hobie16 class, there are boats available everywhere and at all prices. I know there is interest all over this country, but new or "almost new" boats are too expensive or too far away to pick up. We need to build the F-16 class spirit, the "can do", "have fun", "great time", "go fast", "excellent dudes" feeling.
That is my toughts about how to grow the class further and faster without bringing in topics like the internet and the forum. If the class had a budget we could target areas and do some advertising, but "viral" marketing and "word of mouth" works pretty well. | | | Re: F16 Future
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#123928 11/17/07 08:04 AM 11/17/07 08:04 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,449 phill
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Posts: 1,449 | Rolf, You made some very good points especially but getting pieces into publications and newspapers should be a priority. Lets face it if your only PR is on a cat sailing forum your most likely to be preaching to the converted. We need to convert more people. Magazines and newspapers would be a good place to start giving us access to non cat sailors. We could all start by getting a report published in local sailing magazines of the F16 GC. It may be old hat to us but it would be new to anyone who does not read this forum. Just a thought. Regards, Phill
I know that the voices in my head aint real, but they have some pretty good ideas. There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!
| | | Re: F16 Future
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#123931 11/17/07 09:36 AM 11/17/07 09:36 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | Mark,
I also wonder how to grow the class further. The temperature on the forum is typically "winterish", so I dont think you should read to too much into it.
To build the class further I think we need more PR, more good events, a used boat market and the F-16 class spirit. Of these we are probably ahead of schedule (saturation!) with the PR on catsailing forums, but getting pieces into publications and newspapers should be a priority. We need more good events with focus on having a good time, but still with excellent sailing. We need reports and pictures from those events to reach sailing magazines and websites. We have a chicken and egg problem with boats vs. events, but still it is important to get out information about the events so people can see that there is activity. We need a larger used boat market with entry level prices. That is one of the great strengths of the Hobie16 class, there are boats available everywhere and at all prices. I know there is interest all over this country, but new or "almost new" boats are too expensive or too far away to pick up. We need to build the F-16 class spirit, the "can do", "have fun", "great time", "go fast", "excellent dudes" feeling.
That is my toughts about how to grow the class further and faster without bringing in topics like the internet and the forum. If the class had a budget we could target areas and do some advertising, but "viral" marketing and "word of mouth" works pretty well. Problem is that people buy boats; Love them to bits and so don't well them ! As for PR, I have Jeremy Evans (Y+Y) booked in to do a "sail test" on My F16; we've just not managed to meet up and makle it happen; and it's now getting cold ! I'll drop him another email and see when he wants to do it <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Been a touch busy with more pressing matters in the last couple of weeks <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: F16 Future
[Re: scooby_simon]
#123932 11/17/07 11:11 AM 11/17/07 11:11 AM |
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 549 Knokke-Heist - Belgium Gilo
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Posts: 549 Knokke-Heist - Belgium | I agree with Phill that this forum isn't the place to do marketing for the class. It's an excellent place to help new sailors getting to know their boats and so on...
According to me there are 2 ways to approach the market, both should be used.
1 talk to the manufactures, a difficult thing to do. I already contacted Boulogne concept marine (Cirrus) and Nacra Europe. Both selling 'F104' at the moment, so they didn't say they'd change their platforms right away. Still Cirrus did not really know about the F16 or that it was an active community.... In that way it was kind of a good result. I think if you can remind them of the F16 once in a while and get them interested it could be a good thing. Still got Hobie on my list....
2 approach the buyers. At the moment Kathleen and I are trying to rework the F16 flyer and maybe someone should also make or distribute a A4 or A3 poster that could be hung out at club houses.
As we said before also the F16 logo should always be in the sail. That way interested people know what to look for on the internet.
A newsletter could also be set-up to send out. You can send it to other catsailors you know, to constructors, .... Just to make F16 something common, something that is talked about.
Alter Cup. I think it is a great concept and should be tried out more. Maybe not as a real race, but get introduction weekends with at least 5 to 10 boats. It's nice to see on the beach and a lot of people can be reached.
Last and maybe most important, racing. We should compete in international regatta's (and the best would be to beat a lot of FXOne, Inter17 and ofcourse F18 or at least be as good as them).
Something interesting could be monitoring the F16website and checking number of vistors, where they come from, search words, ... We had a small article in a belgian sailing magazine for example and it would be nice to see if that had any effect....
Regards, Gill | | | Re: F16 Future
[Re: Mark P]
#123933 11/17/07 01:52 PM 11/17/07 01:52 PM |
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 571 Hamburg Smiths_Cat
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Posts: 571 Hamburg | Hi Mark,
I am/was looking for a new boat. Soon I read about F16. So yes, the presence of F16 is good, if you are already in touch with beachcats or use frequently internet. My problem was: It is difficult to get a F16, if you are not in UK or the Netherlands (or close to it). No dealer in Germany, France and southern Europe, the big markets. I guess that the UK and Dutch market is saturated now, for a further growth you need new markets. I know from some people, that they are interested in F16 or T4.9, but go for other boats due to availablity or price.
Overall the marketing is wrong in my opinion. It comes along as high tech racing boat, sometimes even as "nearly-as-fast-as-F18". There are so many other "HT" cats out there and people want to buy fun rather then speed. Actually the boat is light weight and it is the best replacement for the Dart 18. That are the points which has to be promoted, there is no other class (and very few competetor boats) out there, which offers this aspect of sailing.
If you promote the boat in such a way and if there are sufficient dealer, you could hopefully reach more people.
I hope that this will help you.
Cheers,
Kolja | | | Re: F16 Future
[Re: Smiths_Cat]
#123934 11/17/07 07:13 PM 11/17/07 07:13 PM |
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 _flatlander_
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Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 | I agree totally with Kolja. While in it's pure sense this is a racing boat, its' attributes may be very attractive to a lot of sailors, if marketed correctly. I think Hans Giesler, with the G-Cat F16, hit a home-run and the boat went nowhere. Simple, deep-vee hulls, no boards. The low weight can be so attractive to many older and aging sailors. Can we assume the boat does not have to be rigged with the 3rd sail to be a fun recreational boat? and no doubt faster than a TheMightyHobie18 for instance.
John H16, H14
| | | Re: F16 Future
[Re: Mark P]
#123935 11/18/07 06:38 AM 11/18/07 06:38 AM |
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 98 Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA WillLints
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Posts: 98 Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA | I've got two little ideas about promotion. One, the thing that sets this class apart from most is that it can be done (race or sail) one up or two. Some clever wording that expressed that would be helpful. "Do It, one up or two, with spinnaker".
The other thing, in my late fall and early spring sailing there was always interest from sailors and non sailors. They would say, "What is that". IMO the boat labeling is too much about the manufacture and not enough about the class. In this country people are not acquainted with the formula idea. When they see "F 16" they are pretty sure that it is 16 feet long, but the F could be Frank, Fitzgerald, Fun.......? I'd be OK with big letters down the side of the hull that spelled it out, "Formula 16". Then they can think, Where do I get one?
Will_Lints one-up, Blade 706, epoxy bottoms
| | | Re: F16 Future
[Re: WillLints]
#123936 11/18/07 07:14 AM 11/18/07 07:14 AM | Anonymous
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Unregistered | big letters down the side of the hull that spelled it out, "Formula 16". Excellent idea IMO. | | | Re: F16 Future
[Re: Gilo]
#123939 11/18/07 06:06 PM 11/18/07 06:06 PM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | Warbird,
I do think 'Formula' and the racing aspect of the class is an important thing. When I talk about the F16 at our club people think it's interesting to sail a platform where you can also race on elapsed time. The F18 is very well known and famous in Europe, so in Europe it's really to sell the class as a formula class.
Regards, Gill Agreed.
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: F16 Future
[Re: scooby_simon]
#123940 11/18/07 06:45 PM 11/18/07 06:45 PM | Anonymous
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[Re: ]
#123941 11/18/07 09:01 PM 11/18/07 09:01 PM |
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,246 Orlando, FL tback
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Posts: 1,246 Orlando, FL | big letters down the side of the hull that spelled it out, "Formula 16". Excellent idea IMO. How about vertically down the mast?
USA 777
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[Re: ]
#123942 11/18/07 09:04 PM 11/18/07 09:04 PM |
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,147 Bay of Islands, NZ warbird
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Posts: 1,147 Bay of Islands, NZ | I expect this reaction and understand it, I think in a similar way. The formula would not change, nor any of the rules. You could still discuss all of those geeky bits with people but while you retain the "Formula" label as your primary name I think you will have to accept being the "lighter", "smaller", less commercially groovy class to F18 and therefore find it harder to grow interest. And before you start wittering about what is best and why, you are speaking to the converted (I have a Taipan) so save it. I am talking specifically about creating interest in outsiders, it is a shallow world and label is everything. | | |
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