Announcements
New Discussions
Polar Diagrams for beach catamarans?
by TexasTuma. 07/01/25 04:16 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Rules [Re: scooby_simon] #132111
02/17/08 07:10 AM
02/17/08 07:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
veteran
Jalani  Offline
veteran

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
I personally don't believe we are looking at a contradiction in the rules. It's more like an OMISSION in the rules. 1.7.2 is clearly intended to permit adjustable diamonds therefore we have omitted to include diamond wires from the 'main' rule summary.

"The rig may not be trimmed between start and finish by other means than sheet, downhaul, outhaul, traveller, mast rotation, [color:"red"] diamond wires [/color] and halyards systems."

Unfortunately, I think this omission can only now be addressed by a resolution at the next WGM. The F16GC now need a proposal and a seconder for that proposal so that it can be put to the membership NOT as a rule amendment but as a rule clarification.

Thank you MarkP and macca, I think you are both quite correct in pointing out this minor drafting error!


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
--Advertisement--
Re: Rules [Re: scooby_simon] #132112
02/17/08 07:11 AM
02/17/08 07:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
The rules are clear but the text on the website at the "F16 Class Rule Summary" page is not.
http://www.formula16.org/content/view/18/40/lang,en/

Maybe line in question should read:
"The rig may not be trimmed between start and finish by other means than sheet, downhaul, outhaul, traveller, mast rotation and halyards systems with exception of diamond wire tension."
or something like that.

edit:John beat me to it.

Re: Rules [Re: Mark P] #132113
02/17/08 07:12 AM
02/17/08 07:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,449
P
phill Offline

veteran
phill  Offline

veteran
P

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,449
Hey Mark,
You wouldn't be [censored] stirring would you?
Too cold to sail?
Don't tell you've run out of beer?


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: Rules [Re: Tony_F18] #132114
02/17/08 07:13 AM
02/17/08 07:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
old hand
macca  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
I agree, it appears that in intention is to allow adjustable diamonds. Needs cleaning up.


________________________
http://aus300.blogspot.com
Re: Rules [Re: macca] #132115
02/17/08 07:17 AM
02/17/08 07:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia
Marcus F16 Offline
enthusiast
Marcus F16  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia
Andrew - why dont you get a boat sorted for the container going to mumbles.?

I know a good builder!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Marcus Towell

Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
Re: Rules [Re: Marcus F16] #132116
02/17/08 07:19 AM
02/17/08 07:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
old hand
macca  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
can you make it 80kg and 17ft long? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


________________________
http://aus300.blogspot.com
Re: Rules [Re: macca] #132117
02/17/08 07:26 AM
02/17/08 07:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia
Marcus F16 Offline
enthusiast
Marcus F16  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia
Minimum weight gauranteed <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> plus you dont need 17ft on the "OzBlade" <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


Marcus Towell

Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
Re: Rules [Re: macca] #132118
02/17/08 07:33 AM
02/17/08 07:33 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Quote
can you make it 80kg and 17ft long? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


I think there will not be a lack of volunteers to make it "compliant" <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
[Linked Image]

Re: Rules [Re: Tony_F18] #132119
02/17/08 07:34 AM
02/17/08 07:34 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Quote
Quote
can you make it 80kg and 17ft long? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


I think there will be not lack of volunteers to make it "compliant" <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
[Linked Image]



<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Rules [Re: Tony_F18] #132120
02/17/08 07:40 AM
02/17/08 07:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia
Marcus F16 Offline
enthusiast
Marcus F16  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia
Nah - you will get carbon fibre dust all over you. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


Marcus Towell

Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
Re: Rules [Re: Mark P] #132121
02/17/08 07:55 AM
02/17/08 07:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Mark,

You are refering to a summary of the class rules and not to the real class rules.

I seem to remember that the summary is explicelty conditioned as being subject to the full class rules taking precedent when conflicting. At least it was that way on our old F16 website where I had made the summary.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 02/17/08 08:19 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Rules [Re: macca] #132122
02/17/08 07:59 AM
02/17/08 07:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Stewart Offline
old hand
Stewart  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
that would make it overweight and under length for an A.. Still it would measure in..

Best of luck against the A boys... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: Rules [Re: Marcus F16] #132123
02/17/08 08:12 AM
02/17/08 08:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Marcus and others,

Quote

It appears there could be a contradiction, but it will be upto the INternational F16 Association & the F16 Techincal committee to decide.



Actually, it isn't up to them. Rule 1.7.2 was included in the class rules in 2002 after the general acceptance vote that also explicitely allowed the adjustment of the diamond wire tension DURING racing. As such there is no situation of intepretation.

This vote was a direct result of the fact that some of the Bim 16 boats at the time were said to have this setup and the fact that we analysed it to be an inexpensive and possibly advantagious setup. We reasoned that if it is inexpensive that there is no reason to exclude it from the class.

We don't see this setup very often in F16 class as its benefits require very good understanding of how the rig behaves and the risk of setting it wrong and only make performance worse is very large. The subject was researched in the early years of the F16 class using input from skilled sailors like Goodall, Anderson and others; as well as researching the performance history of this setup in the A-cat class where is found more often.

There is no conflict in the class rules, we have only found a small misalignment between the official class rules and a (quick and dirty ?) summary of the class rules. Of course the official class rules always take precedence over any derived summaries etc.

In my opinion the summary is not part of the class rules (never was) and can as such be altered without any official AGM or voting procedure.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 02/17/08 09:19 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Damon Linkous, phill, Rolf_Nilsen 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 1,453 guests, and 58 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,406
Posts267,062
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1