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Re: Uni Spin Setup [Re: Wouter] #132144
02/17/08 07:55 PM
02/17/08 07:55 PM

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Its funny how fashion effects our thinking.

when they first put kits on Tornados, everyone had the cleat on the beam. Word then passed around that it was much easier to pull down than out, so everyone moved the cleat onto the mast. Having had a good look at all the boats at the asia/pacific championships I'm pretty sure 9 of the top 10 boats at the upcoming worlds will have the cleat on the beam. Justifications varied between different people examples I heard were:

Its better for hoisting in rough conditions (you have to stand up to get full advantage of the on mast system).

It makes for a cleaner tramp layout without the loose tail flapping around.

Its easier to cleat.

Less holes in the carbon mast

Bundy and Gashby are doing it this way so it must be better.

On a side note, as someone looking to join you (single handing an F16) could someone talk me through a top mark rounding. Particularly are you hanging onto the tiller while hoisting?

edit: if you go to a single line system make sure you have a knot in the tack line that hits the tack block. Set it so the kite can get into the bag but no further. This should help with some of the tack line issues discussed above. I do it on split systems also.

Last edited by Scarecrow; 02/17/08 07:59 PM.
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Re: Uni Spin Setup [Re: ] #132145
02/17/08 08:04 PM
02/17/08 08:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
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Michigan
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edit: if you go to a single line system make sure you have a knot in the tack line that hits the tack block. Set it so the kite can get into the bag but no further. This should help with some of the tack line issues discussed above. I do it on split systems also.


That is a good idea, hadn't thought of that.

Re: Uni Spin Setup [Re: ] #132146
02/17/08 08:13 PM
02/17/08 08:13 PM

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Quote

On a side note, as someone looking to join you (single handing an F16) could someone talk me through a top mark rounding. Particularly are you hanging onto the tiller while hoisting?


Well I don't count myself as an expert but as far as the tiller is concerned, no you don't hang on to it. Just put it down and the boat will track reasonably well long enough to get the spin up.

Re: Uni Spin Setup [Re: ] #132147
02/17/08 10:48 PM
02/17/08 10:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
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Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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I don't know how every one else does it single handed but I always drop the traveler way out as I round A mark, bear off deep, let go the tiller, pull the tack, hoist the kite, trim the sheet with one hand and tiller with the other, head up, trim kite, sit on sheet, pull up traveler to where it needs to be depending on course and wind strength, leave it, return to trimming kite with one hand and steering with other. I can usually release the mast rotator and cunningham at some point shortly there after.

But that is the easy part. The exciting part is the snuff at the C mark with boats all around, all going fast, all snuffing spinns! I drop the traveler again so it will not head up and flip over while I quickly drop halyard, pull snuffer line then release tack, fully snuff as the boat is rounding up now, usually, grab tiller and traveler, steer upwind and bring traveler up, reach for rotator and cunningham while going out on the wire, wind permitting.

Yes, it's much easier to have a crew do it all! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Timbo; 02/17/08 10:56 PM.

Blade F16
#777
Re: Uni Spin Setup [Re: Timbo] #132148
02/17/08 11:49 PM
02/17/08 11:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 201
Adelaide South Australia
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What he said



Re: Uni Spin Setup [Re: ] #132149
02/18/08 06:09 AM
02/18/08 06:09 AM
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Interesting to note that I've been a cleat-on-beam-single-line-spi-halyard ever since 1998 when I purchased my first spinnaker. I have always liked it that way, even when having tried the two line setup on other boats. I also prefer a 4 mm dyneema line as halyard which is not something most people seem to agree on. Mmy spinnaker seems to take rather well to that line despite it being rough on the outside; my spinnaker is now 5 years old and still flying; the number of small piece of tapes is still pretty low. But lets not talk about its flying shape anymore !


Quote

On a side note, as someone looking to join you (single handing an F16) could someone talk me through a top mark rounding. Particularly are you hanging onto the tiller while hoisting?



As any 1-up F16 sailor will tell you, racing an F16 singlehanded is just as much a race with yourself as with any other boat outthere. For me that is part of the attraction. It doesn't get more challenging then that. But when it all works out then it is as glorious as a New York ticker tape parade.

I do notice that everybody has a slighlt different method of doing the manouvres and undoubtable you will one that you prefer personally. I find the top mark to be easy, that is with respect to the hoisting the kite as my Taipan has a thing or two say when bearing off in big wind. So maybe it is just the adrenaline rush that makes me all giddy when it is time to hoist the spi.

I round the top mark in a normal manner but when crowded I try to come out of the rounding on the inside of all boats or on the outside when there is a wingmark. Basically, I want some room to me lee, because without it I go over when a gusts hits and I'm prevented from bearing down further. Normally other 2-up crews lets you get below as they want clear air anyway, so this seems to work out well for all of us. Also note that a 1-up F16 will sail under spinnaker significantly lower then a 2-up spinnaker boat so it is best to get out of eachother way from the start and of course that is why most other boats will only be happy to help you out here.

I don't adjust any settings before I round, with the possible exception of the traveller. When considerions allow I set it at the point where I want it under spinnaker. I may adjust my mainsheet a little but I never sheet out alot, basically it is nearly always in the position where I want it when flying the spi. This safes alot of time in my opinion and indeed my spinnaker runs are still very fast compared to others if I don't flip the boat on some wave halveway point down the leg; as I have proven many times over at the GC, ARGGG ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, so I set the mainsail while bearing off to almost straight downwind; I throught the tiller extension over the back and let go of the rudders completely. My boat is setup such that it will head-up on its own. I will take about 3 seconds before that becomes a problem. So I move forward and hoist the spi in one go as quickly as I can. The intent here is to have the kite flapping about as soon as possible as that counteracts the heading up that my boat does. Actually when the kite is hoisted the boat will be neutral or heading down slowly. I then grab the sheet and fill the spi at this point my boat will want to head down and I need to grab the cross bar (not tiller extension) to have it track straight. Of course by moving back on the boat to grab the crossbar I also tension the sheet further and move my weight back. The initial heading up of the boat before the spi was hoisted puts you on the right higher course to draw some air and get speed up, and the bearing down under spi will bring the boat down and send you on your way on the right heading.

When done right this all works out really well and you'll be gone quite often before the other boats have there spis drawing. Alot of sailors do fumble about somewhat.

The only real spoilers in this procedure are :

-1- Tall waves coming fast on my stern, My taipan bows dig when the sterns are lift and that really increases the rate of heading up on my boat. In such conditions, I really have to time the start of
my hoist and get the actual hoist done right under 2 seconds. Ones the spi is up (flapping or flying) things are back under control again as you move back and hold onto the crossbar.

-2- A spinnaker that hangs up before it is halveway. The only solution there is to get it down and jump back on the boat and bear off using the rudders and try again or when things have gone completely wrong, head-up into the wind and sort things out.


However, I have found that alot can be done by smoothing out the halyard systems so you have no kinks in the halyard and have a smooth running setup.

I have also found that with hoisting and dropping the kite that "SPEED IS EVERYTHING !"; the quicker it goes up and down the less issues you are confronted with. Practice hard on that and things will actually become easier. Basically, there will be less time for things to foul up, head up, speed up (wind, gust), slow down (boat, apparent wind angle) and whatever.

When the conditions are mild then I may start retrimming other parts of the boat/rig once I got the spinnaker drawing and the boat moving. Don't do these things before you get the spinnaker drawing as a boat when upwind trim and a spi drawing will be earlier to the bottom-mark then a boat trimmed perfectly for downwind work but delayed 3 or more seconds of spi drawing in getting these systems set right. Greg Goodall has a good rule of thumb that goes like. Everything second that you delay the spi drawing costs you 10 meters in comparison to the competition. Of course no adjustment in mainsail trim will ever win you back 50 meters on the downwind leg, that is just not happening.

Also, I leave my boards down on the downwind legs unless the conditions are so strong that I'm absolutely forced to pull them up. Again, pulling them up singlehandedly costs valuable spi drawing time and my boat actually behaved better with the boards all the way down, but I have short Taipan boards. On the other hand Greg is on record of saying that he keeps them down on the Capricorn as well. Again I think you can see that a good rule of thumb is too leave the boards in their optimal upwind positions and don't adjust during racing unless upwind performance demands it.

Start out in moderate conditions and work your way up to stronger winds. It will all work out.

Good luck.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 02/18/08 06:40 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Uni Spin Setup [Re: Wouter] #132150
02/18/08 08:06 AM
02/18/08 08:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 118
Pensacola, FL
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Quote
my Taipan has a thing or two say when bearing off in big wind

I have the same issue. I think bearing off is the most challenging part of the race for me if there is big wind. I currently try to stay on the trap for as long a possible and ease the main while making the turn. In the past I also eased the traveler but felt like it created a big flat "barn door" that when I got turned down wind would push the bows down and usually result in a swim. Am I on the right track here or doing it all wrong? I am not sure staying on the trap is a good idea or not due the instability caused by all the accelerations, decelerations and turning going on.


Chris
Trident F16
Re: Uni Spin Setup [Re: Cab] #132151
02/18/08 10:44 AM
02/18/08 10:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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You will have to come in at some point, and to try to 1. ease the traveler then, 2. turn downwind, 3. ease the mainsheet but only a little and 4. set the kite, all while being out on the wire, it's a bit much.

As soon as you get it turned downwind, you are going to go Splash if you are out on the wire anyway, so you want to be coming in as, or just before, you turn down.

I have always found that dropping the travler way out -first-, then turn, is the quickest way to get it to turn downwind without putting too much pressure on the low hull towards a stuff, or too much drag on the rudders to slow you down.

The trick is to come in off the wire, turn and ease the traveler out smoothly, so you keep your speed up, and even accelerate, keep your weight back so the bows stay up. Do it on two hulls if it's blowing.

Once you are pointed downwind, any gusts will just make you go faster as long as you continue to bear way off in the gusts.

Remember, if it's blowing 20 and you are going 15 downwind, the apparant wind is only 5, that's when I raise the spinn, after accelerating to 15 downwind, after turning. It's all easier said than done... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Timbo; 02/18/08 12:24 PM.

Blade F16
#777
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