Robi, on a different topic alltogether, how did you like racing on the Capricorn? To me it looks like a bigger Blade, how did it handle?

Greg Goodall might have suggested a different comparison <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Thats another thread. LOL, Tim its a sweet boat that moves like a refined sports car. Powers up very quickly and the control lines are extremely tidied up on the boat. The engineering behind this boat is TOP NOTCH. A very scary thing is, my wife actually liked the boat a lot more than she liked the blade <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
The boat also moved through the chop without a glitch.

I did like the boat alot, enough to consider one. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Did your wife get a ride on it too? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

So to clarify ppls positions...

Prestige Events (Worlds, Nationals) should be a strict one crew configuration only system, however official crew changes like any other class should be allowed (ie. if your crew/skipper is broken beyond repair)

Club racing should be race whichever F16 you bring, 1-up, 2-up, doesn't matter, anything goes, changes are allowed up to the start gun of each race.

Minor Events (States, regional) depends on event committee. Changing between 1-up and 2-up is allowed but cannot win major title, only minor titles (ie. junior, veteran, amateur? etc.)

Selection Events should be conducted as the event being selected for.

OT - Maybe "Pro" and "Amateur" divisions (for want of better terms) can be applied for some regattas. The "Pros" can't change crew configuration except for exceptional circumstances, the "Amateurs" can change. I know of a couple of Aust. classes that have something similar even at National Championships level, the "B" fleet races without spinnakers or with modified crew numbers but starts with the "A" fleet. Just something to think about for some regattas.

PMed <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Robi: I hope this is not a rude question but how much do you and your wife weight together?

Wow, ncik, that sounds awfully complicated. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Very similar to the Viper, it looks fast sitting still! If I were in the F18 market, you'd have a tough time persuading me on another brand.

Personally I think the F16 designs could overshadow the F18 designs in the next few years..
We currently have "older" Stealth, Tiapan 4.9 "upgradies" and mozzies which arent to be sneezed at!! (old in these cases doesn't mean slow!!)
Then adding the Blade and Viper.. And around the "house corner" is the "DS16 mk1 & mk2" and another "new world country" has a group working on a design.. As well as a few individual designs sitting on shores.. Things are looking good..

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Which part?

"Which part?" ALL of it.

AND, you should add a rule that says you cannot kick off your crew DURING a race or pick up a crew DURING a race. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

AND, to add another minor complication, if the F16's are racing as a class in a multiple class event that charges a different entry fee for singlehanders vs. doublehanders, because they are providing food and/or T-shirts for each participant, and if an F16 registers as a singlehander and then later adds crew, do they they have to pay the additional entry fee? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Definitely.

Pete,

Having just come back from competing in this event and being a F16 owner, I kind of find offense in this post.

Many crews who would be perfect for the F16 have have stayed with the F18 becuase of the "racing". In Europe this appears to be the class if you race. This was pushed in the US and many very serious teams do compete F18. I consider my racing seriously, but have no allusions that I could race with Gina on an F18 and be competitve with Tomko/Billings, Pitt/Shaffer, etc. 90% of the boats we have sold have been to beginner/intermediate racers. They did not buy the boat to be top of the racing circuit. Most's enthusiasm and improvement (including yourself) has been remarkable. Since there is not any money in this for most of us anyway, for myself and I would beleive most others, the social aspect and the pure fun of sailing is just as important as the racing.

Most of the world uses a different handicap number than the US and they typically place the F18 and F16 much closer in performance. The US is results based, and will eventually change with more participation. For now why in the world would you want change a favorable number if you do race handicap? This is a huge selling point for racing an F16 in the US.

The Cap was a very nice boat to sail. It was a bitch moving on land and lacked the responsivness of the F16 on the water. Even though Seth and I had never sailed together and took a DNS and a DNF I felt our boat speed was very competitive with the group all week. Comparing this to how we race on our 16 I still feel the 2 different designs are relatively comaparable in overall speed around the race course. In a distance (not upwind/downwind) type event, the extra volume length and weight would be preferable over the shorter 16, but most of these guys are running 20s in the US anyway for the same reason.

For potential, there is a lot more opporunity for female crews, youth, mixed, and smaller teams on the F16. The top F18 racing group will not ever look at the F16 anyway. A few may move over if there becomes a large racing cicuit, but aiming at that is waist of time and not what the F16 is about anyway. The F18 may still present themselves as "serious racers", but in our area, there is no one left. After JC goes to Europe, we have 2, Ding and Olli. I am going to the race for the party and to see my friends and enjoy my time on the water. I've raced years on the H16, arguably the most competitive 1 design cat class in the world, I own a wave also pushed for the race scene. I have also owned and raced at least 10 other cat classes. I realy enjoy my F16 more than any other boat I have owned or raced. It will not be the same for everyone, and I would never try to claim so.

Now back to feeding the Trolls - Waterboy <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I agree!! Doesn't make sense for the F16 sailors to want a lower number.

I’m not sure why you would find Pete’s post offensive.

If you guys want to switch crews, configuration, sails, hardware, or modify any rule you want within your own class then go nuts, but if you are racing in the open fleet you know as well as I do that it is extremely unfair and will drive people away from racing. The argument that you’ll have perfectly sailable boats sitting on the beach because you can’t switch configurations is bogus and self serving.

Matt anybody that goes to the Alter Cup is taking it “very seriously”. If you’re not taking it seriously why would you be there?

The 07 and 08 AC results show that the F16 number needs to be addressed. I know this hurts one of the selling points of the boat and takes money out of the builder’s pocket, but it’s the right thing to do for the sport.

Dave

Mark S. - This is why DPN sucks!

Ding, how can you claim that "Based on the 07 and 08 Alter Cup results, the F16 number needs to be addressed"? Were there also F16's racing against F18's at either venue? Were the race courses and wind exactly the same at both venues? By what measurement are you using to compare the two? Feel? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> You would have to run say 5 Blades against 5 Caps. swap boats after each race, do that about 10 times in all kinds of wind, and then look at the results to have any idea how the two compare, oh, and keep times on each race as well. Until that day comes, we will keep our rating.

Guys,

I am certain there are set procedures to change a PY number. If somebody feel the current number is not correct, no amount of discussion here will change the PY number. This is not a F16 class business matter as I see it, but a Portsmouth issue. If somebody want it to change, submit the necessary regatta results and let the Portsmouth committee do their work.

My opinions only:
I think that if you are sailing a F16 only event (or a F16 class within an Open regatta), then there is more flexibility of teaming up (with on person being marked DNC) in bad weather. In that case it is up to the organizing body of that regatta (and hopefully the other competitors). A good example is the Gulfport Invitational in 2007 and 2008.

Any time sailing in an Open fleet, I think you should sail as you registered for the entire regatta. It is just plain wrong to ditch a crew when the wind is light.

Rumors:
The D-PN (and wind rated factors) may change when ALL the results from 2007 (and 2006 <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />) are included; evidently some regatta organizers have not sent in their results, yet. These results could have a profound influence on the rating. The bottom line is that there may be a mid-year adjustment to the F16 rating - if the results can be obtained by the Portsmouth Committee. USSA needed to release the 2008 numbers and couldn't wait any longer on the stragglers (my assumption).

Carry on.......

Matt may disagree with me, but I don't particularly see a favorable number as a selling point. I think a number that indicates performance close to F18 with 70 fewer kgs would be a bigger selling point. So a lower number would be a good thing. But I also agree that the normal Portsmouth process should be allowed to take its course.