Agree

But WHY? Why couldn't F18, as it stands today, become an Olympic class? The racing is very very close as it is ... isn't that the point?

Because ISAF and other powers that be have been raised on strict One-Design mono class and don't want any formula or open rules class in the olympics.

Wouter

Letters To The Editor editor@scuttlebutteurope.com
Letters are limited to 350 words. No personal attacks are permitted. We do require your name but your email address will not be published without your permission.
* From Nino Shmueli: Mr. H. L Menin mention in his letter that "... To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a women's 2 person HP dinghy regatta (again, excluding the 470) other than the couple of times that the 29er was substituted for the 470 for the girls in the ISAF Youth Worlds (and in each case there was a drop in participation)......".
Few clarifications:
1. The boat that ISAF used for two person dingy at the past years was the 420 both for Boys and Girls and not the 470.
2. I agree with Mr. Menin comment "...(and in each case there was a drop in participation)......". find numbers of participation (boats and countries) during the past years.

* From Simon Morgan: In view of the storm that's about to break out again over the selection of events for 2012 may I offer you the first signs of the bad weather approaching.
Henry Menin's excellent support for the cause of womens match racing should be praised. At least, unlike the ISAF executive it seems, he is prepared to entertain a debate, and although I am still going to oppose his position, he makes his points clearly and well.
But lets look at the facts. Scuttlebutt Europe reports today on the Womens World Match Racing Championships where there are 14, yes that's only 14, skippers, from a massive 9, yes that's only 9, nations.
Now I am sorry but if that's an event worthy of being in the Olympics then how in God's name can anyone at ISAF justify the disenfranchisement of the entire multihull community.
Conspiracy theory anyone?

RYA applauds decision
The RYA release a statement following ISAF's decision to re-visit the 2012 Olympic sailing events
The Royal Yachting Association (RYA) has today welcomed the International Sailing Federation’s move to reconsider the slate of sailing events for the 2012 Olympic Games (see moore about this announcement here).

A controversial decision by ISAF Council during its annual conference in November 2007 led to the decision not to include a modern high performance dinghy for women, the expulsion of the multihull event and the introduction of a match racing format for the women’s keelboat event.

The RYA lobbied ISAF and fellow Member National Authorities, believing that the decisions taken were not in the best interests of the sport of sailing throughout the world, and requested that ISAF reviewed its decision on three grounds:

-That the current list of events will not maximise media interest.
-That the decisions are likely to attract fewer nations and young sailors into the sport of sailing
-That an amendment to the previously agreed voting procedure was hasty, and the process ultimately used for selecting events was flawed

ISAF has agreed to re-open the discussion surrounding the sailing events for 2012 at its mid-year conference at Qingdao, China, in May.

RYA Chief Executive Rod Carr said: “We welcome the opportunity ISAF have presented to us to have a full and frank debate on these issues at the mid-year meetings.

“We believe the original decisions at the November conference were made in haste, and with many delegates not having a clear understanding of the issues involved and the process concerned.

“We hope that the meetings next month will pave the way for an inclusive and modern slate of events which will showcase our sport in the best possible light in 2012.”

From The Daily Sail.

But that is the point it would as they are TODAY...the class chosen would have to stagnate...unless they left it open...but as Wouter says this NOT what the powers in ISAF want. They want an off the shelf boat eg Laser

I am NOT disputing the racing is close...the racing is close in the Tornado fleet too. However what is looked at IMHO is the perceived cost of a Tornado over an F18. I say perceived cost because once again IMHO the relative costs of a FULL olympic campaign in a Tornado and F18 are very similar...although I conceed the initial cost of starting a campaign is less.

The cost of campaigning is the real expense of the Olypmic program. Yes an F-18 is less than a Tornado, but when you get beyond the platform, the other expenses are not much different. Campaigning though accounts for 80-90% of the overall Olympic costs. As far as boats, the IOC and ISAF want one design boats so that the focus in upon the individuals and decided by the sailor not the boat. Simply put, sailors, not boats should decide medals.

Once again, those percentages apply for the US and eastern Europe, but not necessarily for the rest of the world.

The typical Brazilian olympic T campaign spends more on boats and equipment than on travel expenses.

Until the last games, when they brought two gold medals home, sailors barely had money to participate in the minimum of events needed to classify the country in a given class for the games. I am sure the situation is about the same in most poor and developing countries.

The situation is changing slowly for Torben, Scheidt and a couple of other names, but even Scheidt can not travel as much as he would need and trains mostly in Brazil, due to money constraints.

Different tax environments, distances, costs of living and access to funding dramatically change those porcentages.

One can thank monkey for the SMOD ruling

Interesting...

Would that be the case for other classes in those countries too, or just the tornado?

Luiz,

Does Brazil levy massive import duties on Luxury items such as boats?

Why not just pick a class F-18 for example. then each country chooses their representitave. Then when the sailors arrive at the olympics they are given a new boat to compete on. What are we talking about, 20 boats Each team gets their own sails to maintain and tune. The boats are rotated every day. Could there be a better way? you can set your spreder and rake in the morning put your sails on and your on equal ground. The boats would be supploed by the builders. Im sure if you went to hobie or nacra they would jump at the chance to have olympic boats. After the racing they can be sold as olympic special edition boats with new sails. F-18 manufacturers change every event so no one designer gets eliminated or benifits from the campain. Kind of like how the alter cup is run. 2012 tigers 2016 infusions 2020 capricorns ect.

Would that be a viable proposal?

Sounds ok to me. And I think it would be to the advantage of the F18 as a class, without the downside that Stuart talked about of freezing development of any particular design.

Top teams will still need boats to train/compete in prior to the games. Still need to get new boats every few years to stay at the top of the heap. Still need to travel to major events (globally). Still need to train 200+ days per year thus lose employment incomes etc etc etc. These are the real costs of running a campaign, not the cost of the boats.

Manufacturer supplied boat events can also create a flood of lower cost boats on the market after event...meaning if you are trying to sell your own boat you've now got to lower your asking price even further. Great for buyers, but tough for current (and future) re-sellers.

Countries still have to qualify for hte Olympics which means participation in international competitions, unless ofcourse you allow a representative from every country in the world to compete in every sailing event at the Olympics...let's not go there.

I guess so. In the Brazilian case, only Finn hulls are being manufactured in a very small scale.

The total duties are around 85% of the FOB price plus freight. An Olympic boat in Brazil costs twice what it costs in the country of origin.

Some boats/equipments have representatives who make a profit, so make it three times for a 50% markup. Windsurfers are one case. All Harken, Lewmar and Ronstan hardware, lines, sails, sailcloth, etc. are tripled.

To make things worse, Holt bought the local manufacturer Nautos and the Holt-Nautos hardware (the same stuff with new logo) is priced exactly the same as imported hardware. They tripled the prices overnight.

Take care,

Vote now. http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/polls/08/0403/#2

The point of this proposal was that everyone competes in F18. Only when they qualify for the olympics does the gear become one-design and supplied.

As have been said many times before, the kind of resources and money olympians would bring into the F18 class would probably be detremential for the class. Do they/you really want such a change? In my opinion it would be far better for the F18 class to let the Tornado stay the olympic catamaran. That was probably why the F18 class was represented and worked with the Tornado class in Estoril when the events was selected.