No no no no we don't want them back on the F16 forum, let them stay please <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Your use of an AC boat mast is a poor example, pay any engineering company enough money and you can get a pretty reliably consistant result in most production methods from being willing to sacrifice any unit not in specified tolerances.
With the AC boat masts my guess is they made 10 or so masts and hand picked the two most similar, probably trashed the rest so that other teams wouldn't be able use them.
To get consistant results within tight tolerances from a budget production method ( marstrom for example ) one would have to over engineer the product so much to over compensate layup differences ( after all humans did design the engineering process )that the end result would look similar mast to mast but not the lightest nor cheapest
Wayne, Whilst there is a lot of money spend by AC teams, I can assure you that they don't apply the "lets make a dozen masts and see which one we like" method!!! An AC mast costs close to 1million Dollars!!! If they spent money on a dozen masts how would they do the important things like pay crew salaries? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Wouter: I see no point arguing with you anymore, your point of view is based totally on theory, mine on experience. You will always pull some abstract example to support your point of view and whilst that may make you feel better, it just doesn't have anything to do with what actually happens.
The fact that you can convince people like Wayne that the only way to get two identical masts is to build a big batch of them (costing a minimum of $10 million) and pick the good ones is to say the least, disturbing...
Actually Wouter had very little to do with my post, just good old common sense enginnering dictated that.
Your comment that an AC mast costs in excess of $1000000 dollars sort of confirms things as there certainly isn't that sort of cost in composite materials more like 10K max ( you can buy an awful lot of carbon rovings for 10K ) my guess is that an awful lot of masts are made and scrapped, you just never are told about it.
If the manufacturer struck lucky with the first couple then man he certainly would be makiing fast bucks <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Which AC team was it last time that broke their ONE new mast and had to use a version 4 mast until it was fixed? Trust me people Macca is right on this, AC teams build only the masts they need. Poor teams build one. Slightly better of teams build 2 (one per boat). Rich teams have one spare maybe two.
Re: Tornado Carbon Mast
[Re: ]
#134285 03/05/0803:34 AM03/05/0803:34 AM
I'm seriously gobsmacked that the carbon in such a small hollow pole weighs 600kgs, surely you must mean inclusive of all the hardware, stress guages, rigging, instruments, pulleys, halyards etc, if so then yes you would need a lot more than 10K's worth of Carbon. On that weight it must seriously strong, sort of a carbon stick on Viagra ? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
I have just committed to doing my part in this research project in dynamic stabilizing these 52 mtr long laminate structures by (aerodynamic) trailing egde flap control. I'm afraid that means I'm out of much free time.
I'm seriously gobsmacked that the carbon in such a small hollow pole weighs 600kgs, surely you must mean inclusive of all the hardware, stress guages, rigging, instruments, pulleys, halyards etc, if so then yes you would need a lot more than 10K's worth of Carbon. On that weight it must seriously strong, sort of a carbon stick on Viagra ? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Wanyne, with all the rigging (fixed and running), spreaders, load cells etc the mast weighs closer to 900kg.
So yes the bare tube is 600kg give or take.
The new mast on Wild Oats (100ft canting keel maxi) is longer and larger but lighter than an AC mast as it uses a higher modulus carbon than is currently allowed in the AC boats. It cost a lot more than an AC mast too...