I'm considering a purchase of either a Nacra 18 or Hobie Tiger.
The boat is likely to be a few years old, possibly 2005 Nacra 18
Does anyone have views on pros/cons of either Nacra or Tiger?
Also is there anything which one should look out for when purchasing either of the above? e.g. spec or weakness

Is the Nacra F18 considered to be a good boat and capable of holding its' own with a Tiger? ...std Nacra F18 sails

Both are well-built boats and compete quite equally across the world. For the 2005-range, the Nacra F18 has been replaced by the Nacra Infusion, and the Tiger has seen some fit-out and construction changes but the hull shape is the same. If you are intending to race in the F18 fleet, a 2005 model of either boat will be a very good entry and you're likely to get multiple sails, like a newer jib or spinnaker for example.

Check carefully for leaks (particularly in the board wells) and previous repairs, and look over your foils for signs of damage. Those two things are good indicators of how hard a boat has been used and how well it has been maintained. Expect to do some rigging replacement.

Prices for a two or three year old boat have been very low for some time, but with prices for new boats and sails taking a bit of a jump in 2008, you might find the price for a used boat is going up as well and there may be fewer boats on the market.

Good hunting - keep us posted on what you find.

I have not sailed against an Infusion, however a friend of mine has. He said that the Infusion is THE boat to have right now. The older Nacra F18's are loosing ground to them. I personally like the Tiger quite a bit. Eventhough it's an older design, it might be more easily updated to compete with the latest versions.

I'd pick the boat that is strongest in your area.

Up here in the Pacific Northwest that would be the Hobie Tiger. There are several Nacra's up in Vancouver, but they have never traveled with any seriousness.
We've got a full year planned for the Hobie One Design Regattas, and we'll go to a couple F18 events too.
Our class will be racing with the entire range of production years. It will come down to sailor skill more than new boat.

It would also depend on how much racing you can/want do in your area. In addition to the F18 events, there are many Hobie only regattas that an Infusion wouldn't be allowed to participate in. Right or wrong, that is the current state of things. Depending on how many F18 events there are in your area, this may be your biggest consideration.

While there are some Hobie-only events in the area, in some cases there are only Hobie 16s attending. Having a Hobie boat doesn't always get you to a Hobie event. Before I get flamed for pointing this out, just look around. It is more about class than manufacturer, and there are places in the US that if you want to race locally, you need a Hobie 16. Nothing wrong with that.

I think F18 is most satisfying if you're willing to travel to some events. I had the only F18 at my club for a while, but I got in plenty of racing between local open-class stuff and regional F18 events where I knew my friends would be going. With an F18 Worlds possible in the US in 2010, I expect to see growth in the class continue.

Don

I think there are only two areas in North America runing Tiger only events. Your region and upstate New York. I think the rest of the continent is using the NAF18 rules and could care less what brand you sail.

Let's be fair here Don. While you do have your Hobie only events, there are also 10 open events in the Pacific Northwest that will have NAF-18 participation. (These are also the events that you have identified for growing the fleet)

Last season, our first with F-18 starts there were more Nacras entered overall compared to Tigers, though there still weren't fantastic numbers. The one event where everyone travelled, there were the same number of Nacras as Tigers. It will be difficult for some Nacras to travel to some regattas as 4 of the Vancouver boats are owned by clubs, exposing many new sailors to the class.

In answer to the original point of the thread, a 2005 Nacra F-18 will be very competitive with current boats. Last year, I was horizoned by older Nacras and Tigers while I also thumped older Nacras and Tigers on my Infusion. There are so many things to learn in this, and other classes, that having the very best of boats is not the most important factor.

Mark,
I'm not sure I know of any "Tiger Only" events. I was speaking about Hobie Class Racing.
I'd be surprised to learn that there were only 2 Hobie Divisions with Tigers.

I stand by my advice to go with what's the strongest in his area.
I know some of the Tigers in Southern California aren't even class legal anymore. They run with aftermarket sails so they can only race F18 or Opens.

But if that's what is going strong in their region then it makes sense.

This was the point I was trying to make. I think you said it better than me. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

All of the brands seem fairly equal on performance. With the skippers ability creating the main difference.

Well... Take a look at the 07 rankings.

Hobie Class events = Tiger only events no other F18's allowed.... the initative a year or so ago to change this apparantly died.

IMO, You can't count events that have one or two boats in the class which pretty much leaves the North West and Upstate New York over to Detroit.

If you want to race an F18 in those areas you are limited to a Tiger.

OH, I think I am being fair.

If I were to survey the high performance 18' market in the Pacific Northwest right now I would be able to make a strong case for buying a Hobie Tiger.

I'm NOT trying to make a statement of brand dominance.

I'm stating that if I were looking for strong support, and lots of close competitive racing, the Tiger is what is happening up here "right now".


It will not be the same for everyone, in every region. And it may not be that way in the years to follow up here.
We're still in the grass roots building process for the NAF-18's up here.

I would debate whether 1-2 boats at an open event is NAF-18 participation. But it does get the word out to a different group, and that's good for all of us. And good for the sport.

Right, I can see your point and even agree. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Realistically, that's what it boils down to.

You could pick another boat in those two regions. But you would be limited in your options.

The boats are starting to get like car models. They all start looking alike after awhile. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Don,

I don't want to open the old can of worms again... but you seem to want to suggest that this is a Positive Reality in the northwest.... therfore... choose a Tiger for this area.

So, it should be noted.
The Tiger Only F18 racing is STRICTLY a function of clubs CHOOSING to not allow the other F18's to participate at their event.

What are the actually pro'as and con's for the sailors in the Northwest?

IMO, It sounds like it's a bit problematic.. It sounds like you have a large number of events that are Open and a similarlly large number of Hobie only events. Unless you guys sail every weekend... It sounds like your sailors choose the four or so events a year that they want to do and you don't develop the critical mass of F18's at the events on the schedule. (a certain disappointment for someone looking to go F18 racing)

If the poster wants to race in the nortwhest.... He can now evaluate your claim... "get a Tiger if you are in this area" from a different perspective.

Had you left it as... Well in the north west... we have X # Tigers of all flavors and we have Y # good sailors and we work together to get up to speeed. Getting a Tiger in this area would allow you to join this group and and dial up the Tiger's settings to quicklty get up to speed ... Pronto... You should really get a Tiger if you are in the Northwest.

I would not have gotten my nose out of joint.

Take Care
Mark

Here is a little info. I'm not looking to inject to much into this topic. Just clarifying the schedule.


Apr 4-6 -- Potholes Warm Up, Potholes Reservoir, Fun sail/Youth NOT F18

Apr 19-20 -- Flights of Spring, Jericho, Vancouver BC, Open Multi. Open F18 #1

May 3 -- Fast and Fun, Kirkland, Wa, Waves NOT F18

May 10 -- Hobie 101, Sail Sand Point, Hobie NOT F18

May 17, 18 Seattle NOOD, F18 Start, F18 #2

May 24-25 – Splash, Sail Sand Point, Seattle, Hobie Points

May 31-June 1 -- Live on the Edge, Fern Ridge, Eugene, Open Multi(portsmouth) 6-8 hour drive, how many will go.

June 5-8 -- Canadian Grand Pre, Comox, BC, Open Multi 8 hour trip F18 #3

June 13-14 -- Hobie Cat Distance, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, Fun Sail NOT F18

June 21-22, Jericho Hobie Classic, Vancouver, BC, Hobie Points

July 12-13 -- Kits Invitational, Vancouver, BC, Open Multi. F18 #4 (Conflicts with Hobie Regatta)

July 12-13 -- Sudden Valley Regatta, Lake Whatcom, Wa., Hobie Points

July 19-20 -- Oak Harbor, Area Championship, Oak Harbor, Whidby, Hobie Points

July 26-27 -- Summer Celebration Youth Regatta, Sail Sand Point, Waves/Youth NOT F18

Aug 2-3 -- Lake Quinault Regatta, Lake Quinault, Wa., Hobie Points

Aug 9-10 -- Smoke on the Water, Skamokawa, Wa., Hobie Points

Aug 23-24 -- Full Moon Over Harrison, Harrison Hot Springs, BC, Hobie Points

Aug 25-29 -- Nationals Hobie 17/18/Tiger, Harrison Hot Springs, BC, Hobie Points

Sept 6-7 -- Chelan Annual Regatta, Chelan, Wa., Open Multi/Youth X-Class multi only, Portsmouth

Sept 20-21 – BBOD, Bellingham Bay, Open Multi, also Alter Qualifier(Portsmouth)
Sept 20-21 -- Alter Cup Qualifier, Area L, BYC, Bellingham Bay, US Sailing

Sept 27-28 -- "Oktoberfest",Youth Sailing Event, Sail Sand Point, Seattle, WA. NOT F18

Oct 18-19 -- Pumpkin Bowl, Vancouver, BC, Open Multi F18?, Cold,Cold

Nov 1-2 – Bluenose, Vancouver, BC, Open Multi F18?, and Very Cold


And real F18 events boils down to three F18 events that will have more than a couple of boats.
Basicly,
3 - F18; Flights of Spring, Seattle NOOD, Comox(Grand Pre)
8 - Hobie Points (Tiger)
3 - Open Portsmouth;Fern Ridge Oregon, Chelan Anual, BBOD
2 - Really cold Maybe F18s

The reality is that this is a good start for us up hear. Previously there wern't any "F18" events, we just worked in some starts that had a few boats.
Now we are getting Official starts at regattas and treated seriously. I think we are still the largest class registered so far at the Seattle NOOD.


So there is alot of opertunity to sail all types of cats this year, with 16 regattas that cats are able to sail at on the schedule. Eight of which are open to all.
Also note there are four youth events, so we are really buisy this year.

Now we just have to get those boats sitting in dry storage out on the water.
There is a lot of sailing and with the price of gas, <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />, most people would pick the ones that will be well attended.

Me I will go to just about all of them. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Except those really cold late in the year, those I will have to think twice about. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Mark,
I owe you an appology If I've let my enthusiasm get to your nose joint. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I've been enjoying the discussion. Perhaps a little too much. I appreciated your feedback.

I've not sailed in the parts of the country where there is a lot of open class multihull racing. Most of mine has been with the Hobie Regattas. So from my perspective, when I look at racing the Tiger it's either at a Hobie Regatta, or an F18 start at a yacht club.
Right now, we do seem to sail every weekend. Or at least that's what my wife thinks. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

So, when we decided to try making a few Open/F18 events to help promote the class, it was with an already tight schedule.

We have a pretty packed schedule already with our Hobie Regatta Schedule. We've added a couple of youth only events, and some community activities to help grow the sport.
The Hobie Classes are still very active up here, and seems to be on the upswing. I don't particularly agree with the exclusiveness, but it is this way right now.

It's true I guess that we could choose to go to all of the Open Regattas, but that would come at the cost of a negative impact to our One Design events. And there's really no real benefit in doing that. Most of the Open Events that are alluded to in the posts are club dinghy races. We picked the couple that we thought we could support in strong numbers without conflicting with our current calendar.

I guess I never stopped to view the negative perspective. From where I sit it seems that because I own the Tiger, I can enjoy a full season of well run, well attended multihull events, and also have the option to particapate in a few highly visible F18 events.
If I owned one of the other models (which I think are awsome looking boats) I would be somewhat limited in my event choices.

Perhaps the situation will change over time.

I've tried my best to convey my perspective here, and not sound too partisan with regards to the brand of boat I sail.
Hopefully, we can continue to have an open dialog. I think it's in all our best interest to understand how the rest of the world works.

Cheers,
Don

Mike,

I thought the blood was a bit thicker in Seattle. If you think it'll be cold in Vancouver in November I can always sell you a great drysuit and fleece to go under it. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Scott

Wow

It seems like you have a lot of events that go back to back and as many as three a month.

How does that work for you guys? (Do you have a way to create sailing time?)

We are being ruthless with the schedule on the Chesapeake... to the point that when a club screwed up and moved their date well after the schedule had been set in stone we had to tell them to cancel the start for this year. The new date would have created Back to Back events and would have resulted in two low attendance regattas and a tougher sell for both events next season.

We look carefully at the high point standings and see how many events a team is doing from year to year. 4 or 5 weekends is a lot of racing for most teams. This is about one a month for our sailing season. Adding more events does not get them to do more racing. It certainly gives them choice in how to plan their weekends.

How do you guys see it?

My wife and I have done 13 regattas a year for the past 2 years and 8 a year the 2 years before that. The more regattas the better. Some of these regattas are low key with only a dozen or so boats. We find them just as fun as the full blowout hootenanny regattas. They are attended by at least 7 dedicated F18 crews so there is always good racing. Our children are now young adults which makes it easier. I will also admit that by mid to late August there's a good blow out on the boat that results in a mutiny by the crew and sometimes even the skipper but we always manage to recover. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I live in the much referred to Northeast, and even here, you can find enough F18 regattas to support your addiction if you do not have a Hobie Tiger. You will have to travel north of the border where the dollar is at par and gas is VERY expensive, but the additional alcohol content in the beer makes up a little bit of the difference. I would still recommend a Tiger in this area because you would miss out on some great regattas. The bottom line is how is the boat manufacturer and dealer in your area supporting you and your regattas. In this area Hobie and, more in particular, Boat Works does an excellent job. That's why people in this region are so loyal to Hobie.

I am amazed at what folks sail in here in the Northwest.
You didn't know, but I am a transplant from Florida and I have had about all I can take of this weather up here.

In the winter I am looking for any excuses to travel to something south or even visit the realatives down south.

I think having the regattas run late into the year is good, more oppertunity, but it would be tuff for me.

But I will hold out for a few more years, 8 or less, then I am off to warmer climes.

Oh ya, I might be hitting you up for one of those Code Zeros some time, bring one to Flights of Spring fo me to check out.