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US Sailing funding...? #142471
05/08/08 10:13 AM
05/08/08 10:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
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Well I got my renewel letter the other day, for a new $60 2009 rulebook. I was thinking about the ever present problem of funding for US Sailing, which I think survives soley on membership funding, no public support.

My question is, why have they not applied for Public funding via our Government, like they do in many other countrys? I know the Isreali gov. funds a fantastic sailing program there. I think the RYA gets public financing as well. And then there is the Olympic funding thing...

It would seem to me that in this day of rapidly increasing oil/gasoline prices, a good case could be made to our Democratic Congress that a nation wide, publicly funded sailing program would be of some great benefit, especially when it comes to giving "inner city youth" something to do all summer, other than selling crack, that does not rely on forign oil sales to us. Sell it as the combination of Solar and Wind energy to produce fun and excitement with no carbon footprint. Too bad Gore isn't in the White House!

So, Jake, JW, or any other US Sailing reps. in the know, do you have any info. on what has been attempted as far as getting Uncle Sam to pony up for some of this? It would be great to have a nation wide program, with sailing centers in every major city with water, were anyone could walk in and get on the spot training, rent a boat, a membership card like a driver's licenses, that would allow you to rent anywhere once you have completed the course.

This $60 rulebook thing is getting old and members still can't rent at any of the US Sailing Centers. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Timbo; 05/08/08 10:45 AM.

Blade F16
#777
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: Timbo] #142472
05/08/08 12:10 PM
05/08/08 12:10 PM
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Reno NV
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Rhino1302 Offline
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Reno NV
Right now US Sailing is pushing for mandatory membership for all sailors.

Your recommendation is to go the next step with mandatory membership for all US citizens, with the IRS collecting membership dues. I don't like it.

Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: Rhino1302] #142473
05/08/08 12:53 PM
05/08/08 12:53 PM
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Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Out of what I pay my club for membership, which includes mast up storage, a beach, changing rooms, a somewhat social scene, a wednesday night series etc. etc. about one dollar goes to the national sailing assoc. Without a strong national sailing assoc. the local club would probably not be there.

You in the USA have a different view on central organisations than most in Europe. Some of these large and central organisations are rotten apples, but many do good work. Not everybody here have to be a member, but if you want to race, you are a member.

Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: Rhino1302] #142474
05/09/08 08:11 AM
05/09/08 08:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
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Rhino, lots of your tax dollars are going to rebuild a country we bombed back to the stone ages, you OK with that? I would rather see a small piece of that going towards something all Americans can learn to do. The wind and water are free, all we need is a place to access them. We have so many other government funded special projects, I don't think one more will break your bank. If all americans were paying for it (like we are with every other government program) they might show up and use it. Good for business and good for the environment.


Blade F16
#777
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: Timbo] #142475
05/09/08 08:47 AM
05/09/08 08:47 AM
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Does anybody know where to find a copy of the US Sailing Budget? I can't find it on their web site. I would at least like to know where the money goes.

Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: Mary] #142476
05/09/08 10:10 AM
05/09/08 10:10 AM
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Reno NV
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Rhino1302 Offline
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Timbo,

Mary brings up a very good point. One of US Sailing's big problems (perhaps the problem at its core) is that there is very little accountability to the membership. It appears to be run by a very small clique that is uninterested in the opinions of the average sailor.

The only real control that we have over US Sailing is to refuse to pay membership dues when it does things we disagree with. With government funding we would lose even that.

Beyond that, your idea sounds like "Midnight Basketball". That was a very sucessfull program for inner-city youth started by a few concerned and highly motivated people. It worked because those people made it work. Then the politicians tried to expand it by handing out money left and right, which didn't work because the people not money was the key ingredient.

Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: Rhino1302] #142477
05/09/08 11:13 AM
05/09/08 11:13 AM
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Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
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I know there are many different and independant local sailing centers, not yacht clubs, around the country. But there are only a handfull of official "US Sailing Centers" and they offer little imediatley to any new person off the street.

First you have to join US Sailing, then wait for a class date to get into a long 4-6 week program, and you will never rent a boat on a walk in basis, no matter your skill level.

I was able to rent a boat with no on the water checkout from the Boston Comunity Sailing Center many years ago. It was fantasitc. All I had to do was talk to the guy behind the desk, answer a few questions so that he knew I knew what I was doing, pay my $20 and I was on my way.

I was thinking it would be great if all the Comunity Sailing Centers across our country could all get on the same page, easy now with the internet, keep a list of members who have passed a course or checkout, issue a card you can show to rent say on a Weds. afternoon, just for a daysail, that type of thing, as well as offer an on site instructor available for walk-in customers who already know how to sail or need a quick refresher. This would be in addition to regularly scheduled evening and weekend classes for the locals of course. I think there are already lots of local community sailing centers but they are not connected to each other. I thought US Sailing could handle that since most of them already use a US Sailing curriculum.

Any newbie can go to any hotel in paradise and rent a Wave or Sunfish or something, no questions asked, but at a US Sailing Center, as a US Sailing MEMBER, a Dues Paying experienced sailor, you cannot. Figure that one out.

I've got no problem paying my $60 to join US Sailing, I've been a member since I was about 19 and I'm 48, but I think that should also allow me access to every US Sailing faciltiy and use of a boat (if they are not all out on the water) for a small rental fee of course, without having to take a $200 6 week program to prove I can tack.

Now with the national focus on "Green" everything, and the run-up in gasoline prices, I think it would be a good time for US Sailing to go to Congress and push for some funding to organize a nation wide "Lern to Sail" program, bring in all the local community sailing centers under that umbrella, standardize the courses and give out cards that would allow someone who has proven ability to rent any where, any time. If we want to grow the sport, we have to make it easier for the public to access the boats and the water.

A nation wide program available in every major city, town, etc. where there is already a comunity sailing center would be a great way to lure in more new people, more so now that gasoline for jet ski's is getting way up there with no signs of stopping.

Last edited by Timbo; 05/09/08 12:44 PM.

Blade F16
#777
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: Timbo] #142478
05/09/08 01:54 PM
05/09/08 01:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
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F-18 5150  Offline
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california
Sorry but i was going to fund us sailing but i figured my multihull money wasn't wanted they can get it from the monoslug racers.
U.S. sailing can go play with their dingy's, and thistles and lasers and ynglings and 470's , If they don't support multihulls then why would i support them?


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: F-18 5150] #142479
05/09/08 02:03 PM
05/09/08 02:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 55
Ft Myers Beach, FL
walkefmb Offline
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Ft Myers Beach, FL
don't pout. join ussailing through the multihull council for your $10 break and show support WITHIN the organization. keep your friends close, your enemies closer.


cedar tornado classic,
sunfish,
1972 morgan 27
optidad
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: walkefmb] #142480
05/09/08 02:39 PM
05/09/08 02:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 55
Ft Myers Beach, FL
walkefmb Offline
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Ft Myers Beach, FL
Please remember that US Sailing also provides smaller clubs and community sailing organizations with the ability to insure events and club activities. Without which events will never get the necessary permits to run. Without these nationally recognized certifications insurers would undoubtedly decline coverage or hit you with serious increases or some sort of unreasonable hurdles. The training applies to multihulls as well as monohulls. I think maybe the question ,as pointed out earlier, concerns the powers the be not the powers that could or should be. I know that I am going to pay, participate, and recussitate a Wave or Bravo or whatever it is that is covered with weeds at our little club and put some interested kids on that for an afternoon. We all know that the fun factor will build our fleets from the most important resource we have which is the green opti fleets and whatever else your youngin's scoot about in. Inclusion of youth is essential even if the go to school and race 420's or lasers or colgate 26's if they have a chance to experience cats they won't forget it. Especially on the days when the cats are put away when they are just starting to arrive back at the beach/dock/marina whatever.


cedar tornado classic,
sunfish,
1972 morgan 27
optidad
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: Timbo] #142481
05/09/08 02:57 PM
05/09/08 02:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Quote
I know there are many different and independant local sailing centers, not yacht clubs, around the country. But there are only a handfull of official "US Sailing Centers" and they offer little imediatley to any new person off the street.

I was told by US Sailing a long time ago that US Sailing really does not have anything to do with the "US Sailing Centers." They just sort of sanction them with the US Sailing name. They said they don't give them any money.

In the case of the one in Miami, the center supports itself by charging for drysail storage. And when US Sailing wants to put on a regatta there, all the dry-storage boats have to get out of there so there is room for the regatta boats.

Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: Mary] #142482
05/09/08 03:04 PM
05/09/08 03:04 PM
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Quote
Does anybody know where to find a copy of the US Sailing Budget? I can't find it on their web site. I would at least like to know where the money goes.

I called US Sailing and was told that the budget is not a public document.

However, you can supposedly find out where and how money was spent in 2006 by going to US Sailing.org and doing a search for "Report to Members."

That is supposed to tell us a lot about where the money went.I am not very good at this stuff, so maybe somebody else can do the research.

The report for 2007 is still waiting to be audited, a few more weeks, and then that will be released.

Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: walkefmb] #142483
05/09/08 03:04 PM
05/09/08 03:04 PM
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brucat Offline
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Admittedly, I'm not the strongest PR person (although some would say I have my moments).

However, I think I can sum up the whole problem, and I've seen it before with other organizations in our sport:

There's WAY too much of an "us and them" mentality.

US SAILING isn't THEM, it's US. Of course, that's only if you pay the money, and get off the couch and get active.

Matt and I went to the spring meeting. I think we were the only active multihull sailors there (Means and Doug Campbell were there too).

Mike

Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: Mary] #142484
05/09/08 04:00 PM
05/09/08 04:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,187
38.912, -95.37
_flatlander_ Offline
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38.912, -95.37
2006 Annual report
Page 10 has some incredible numbers


John H16, H14
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: Timbo] #142485
05/09/08 04:59 PM
05/09/08 04:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,074
Northfield,NH USA
bullswan Offline
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I wouldn't join any organization that would have me as a member.... Groucho? Or Will Rodgers?

Anyway, I am TOTALLY against Timbo's idea. I don't want any of my money going to any of the ideas that sound like a good idea until it is remembered that it's the government running it. I get hit with the "it's only a few pennies per year" and "it's for the children" so many times per year I have developed a twitch whenever it comes along. You want to fund US Sailing, go ahead. Leave me (and by extension my wallet) out of it. While you are at it, stop taking my money for the NEA and PBS as well. Could ya? Would ya, please, please, please?

And to the notion that it is too bad that Al Gore is not in the White House......... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I'd expect him to buzz around in a great big cigarette boat touting what a great thing he has now invented..... sailing!

What a joke.
Greg


The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised. - George Will
"It's not that liberals aren't smart, it's just that so much of what they know isn't so" -Ronald Reagan
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: bullswan] #142486
05/09/08 05:11 PM
05/09/08 05:11 PM
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fin. Offline
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I have to say the Feds would probably require roll bars and crash helmets as well as pfds in their Opti program. So I'd be opposed to involving government.

However, the notion of a Florida Multihull Foundation has occurred to me. A few of us who are older and have a few extra dollars might pledge $40 a month for a year or two to reestablish cat sailing, probably through Opti programs aimed at promoting graduates into cats.

A few guys and a little time would produce a significant amount of money to work with.

Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: bullswan] #142487
05/09/08 07:41 PM
05/09/08 07:41 PM
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Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
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OK all you Knee-jerkers, please quote where I said I wanted the Government to RUN anything, especially a national sailing program.

What I DID say was I wanted US Sailing to ask Uncle Sam for some MONEY, and to get all the community sailing centers organized into one big group, with common training and certifications, useable nation wide, at every Community Sailing Center.

But I can see your point, the path we have been on is working so well...

Last edited by Timbo; 05/09/08 10:23 PM.

Blade F16
#777
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: Timbo] #142488
05/10/08 06:42 AM
05/10/08 06:42 AM
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fin. Offline
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Money is power. If you take money from the Feds, they run the show.

Education is a perfect example. Collier County, Florida, does not bus students for racial equality because they don't accept Federal funds for education. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that is the case (I think?).

In any case, given the current (perceived) state of the economy new programs are probably out of the question.

What might be interesting is an examination of grant money allready available. Anyone familiar with writing grants?

We found out yesterday, that a previously unknown $9k will have to be spent out of our office by mid-summer. Go figure.

Last edited by Tikipete; 05/10/08 06:46 AM.
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: fin.] #142489
05/10/08 07:30 AM
05/10/08 07:30 AM
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Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
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If I was reading that 2006 US Sailing report (page 10) posted above, they have over $3,000,000 in the bank, in "Investments".

I think they could solicit funds from the major oil companies who are now touting "Green", like BP, who's comercials I see every day telling how they are investing $90 Billion in Solar, Wind and Hydro energy. That is the definition of sailing.

I agree with those above, I don't want a Gubmint run program, I was in the Military 9 years, I've seen how much money the Gov. can waste and they usually end up screwing up a good thing.


Blade F16
#777
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: Mary] #142490
05/10/08 08:43 AM
05/10/08 08:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
T
TeamTeets Offline
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Ohio
Attached is their 2006 tax filing. While not a budget, it gives some details of where their money comes from and is spent.

Attached Files

Mike, Ohio
Former H16, H18, N20, N17, M4.3
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: TeamTeets] #142491
05/10/08 08:53 AM
05/10/08 08:53 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,022
Lake Zurich, IL
MarkMT Offline
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So membership dues amount to just under 20% of total income. Not a whole lot of incentive for them to be responsive to member concerns.

Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: MarkMT] #142492
05/10/08 10:16 AM
05/10/08 10:16 AM
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fin. Offline
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I guess it would be like newspaper circulation. The larger the circulation, the more expensive the advertising space.

Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: fin.] #142493
05/10/08 05:45 PM
05/10/08 05:45 PM
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Key Largo
barbshort Offline
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Tikipete, just prompting for the thought pattern, not trolling for an argument. Trying to see the "start them on an Opti" viewpoint and coming up empty.

My experience is that any kid who can sail an Opti can pair up with another kid or 2 and adequately sail a Wave.

The things they learn on an Opti don't translate to cats well. Heck, they have to completely relearn how to tack since it is completely different on an Opti than any cat.

And they get used to single-handing an Opti and have to start anew learning how to communicate with crew on a cat.

Just start them on a cat.

Set up the foundation and give learn to sail grants to kids to learn to sail cats. Simple!

Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: TeamTeets] #142494
05/10/08 06:34 PM
05/10/08 06:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 353
Key Largo
barbshort Offline
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Over 2 Mil in salary and bennies?!!!!!!!!!!!

I think we know what the problem is!

Thanks Mike for posting the tax filing.

Close to 2 Mil for "offshore racing and race administration?" Wow!

And a little shy of 1 Mil for "keelboats and promotion of sailing?" Sheesh!

I don't begrudge the investments. I'm sure a bunch of that money was donated with a lot of strings attached and it has to stay invested a certain way and they are allowed to tap it only a certain way.

Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: barbshort] #142495
05/10/08 06:41 PM
05/10/08 06:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 353
Key Largo
barbshort Offline
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Oh, and over 1 Mil to send out newsletters and other communications????!!!! What the........?!

Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: barbshort] #142496
05/10/08 07:16 PM
05/10/08 07:16 PM
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Posts: 3,348
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fin. Offline
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Optis are what we have. I've never seen 200-300 preteens on cats, but I have seen them on Optis.

More to the point, GYC has an offer of 5 Optis free. They need work of course, but the price can't be beaten.

Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: fin.] #142497
05/10/08 07:30 PM
05/10/08 07:30 PM
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Posts: 353
Key Largo
barbshort Offline
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You can't beat free. But beware how much money and labor goes into "free" boats that need work.

On the other point, it won't happen unless we create it. I would think the goal of a multi foundation would be to create the 200-300 kids on cats, not just contribute the status quo system.

Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: walkefmb] #142498
05/11/08 09:32 AM
05/11/08 09:32 AM
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fin. Offline
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If any of your kids show an interest in lighter spin cats, let me know. I'd be happy to demo the Blade for them. For that matter, I'd be happy to demo for the "older" kids!

I took Arie's 11 y.o., Alex, for a short ride and he seemed to be intrigued by the spin, even on a light air day.

btw- thinking in the Opti to cat vein; how about using USS to develope a cat certification and or spinaker cert. for the older Opti kids. It could be a great segue

Last edited by Tikipete; 05/11/08 09:49 AM.
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: fin.] #142499
05/11/08 09:24 PM
05/11/08 09:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 164
fort Myers, FL
arievd Offline
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I tried to talk Alex into signing up for a local Opti program, and his response was that he was not interested in sailing a "bathtub"...This was before Pete's spin ride! No telling what that experience will do to him... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


Arie
Hobie 16 111812
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: arievd] #142500
05/11/08 09:59 PM
05/11/08 09:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 55
Ft Myers Beach, FL
walkefmb Offline
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Ft Myers Beach, FL
Please remember self rescue is a must for green fleet opti's
most of these kids are not more than 75#. MAke sure they have enough supervision and the safety issues start to melt , but enough fglasswork is done on the optis let alone cats crossing and intermingleing at closing speeds above 15knts


cedar tornado classic,
sunfish,
1972 morgan 27
optidad
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: arievd] #142501
05/12/08 12:24 AM
05/12/08 12:24 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Quote
I tried to talk Alex into signing up for a local Opti program, and his response was that he was not interested in sailing a "bathtub."


So if you have a sports car and he wants to drive it someday, will you let him refuse to go to driver training school because he is not interested in driving "dogs"?

Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: Mary] #142502
05/12/08 07:51 AM
05/12/08 07:51 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 164
fort Myers, FL
arievd Offline
member
arievd  Offline
member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 164
fort Myers, FL
Absolutely not, nor would I let him drive the cat until he has gone through a basic sailing program and then some! I was just trying to illustrate how easy it is to influence these kids and how they form opinions... And, yes, I was able to change his mind and get him signed up!


Arie
Hobie 16 111812
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: walkefmb] #142503
05/12/08 11:37 AM
05/12/08 11:37 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 93
USA1273 Offline
journeyman
USA1273  Offline
journeyman
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 93
Quote
Please remember self rescue is a must for green fleet opti's
most of these kids are not more than 75#. MAke sure they have enough supervision and the safety issues start to melt , but enough fglasswork is done on the optis let alone cats crossing and intermingleing at closing speeds above 15knts


You and I did enough damage going from Optis to FJs to Lightenings before Tornados (by 19 years old). I would hate to have seen the wake of destruction we would have left behind if we left one of those key steps out.


Last edited by DHFiend; 05/12/08 11:58 AM.
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: USA1273] #142504
05/12/08 12:18 PM
05/12/08 12:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 55
Ft Myers Beach, FL
walkefmb Offline
journeyman
walkefmb  Offline
journeyman
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 55
Ft Myers Beach, FL
I think that was the first real world demonstration of "matter cannot occupy the same space at the same time". That and the fact that because something has the word FLYING in it doesn't mean that it really is ment to fly.
This pas t w/e just saw the return from the repair shed of 16 optis that had all suffered TREMENDOUS damage from the previous seasons action. Paul check tonykellerphotography.com then select client username mkl2008 no pw you should see us on about page 11 in the background and then on 13 and 14 I think. You will see why my rudders pissed me off. My friend were on the bridge but we have yet to find the camera.

Attached Files
145366-@gilbertwiki.JPG (46 downloads)

cedar tornado classic,
sunfish,
1972 morgan 27
optidad
Re: US Sailing funding...? [Re: walkefmb] #142505
05/12/08 12:33 PM
05/12/08 12:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 55
Ft Myers Beach, FL
walkefmb Offline
journeyman
walkefmb  Offline
journeyman
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 55
Ft Myers Beach, FL
sorry event name is mkl2008 then pg12,&13

only other pic I have here too sorry about the weeds and the sexwax on the hull but the new coating is pretty slick when wet.

Attached Files
145367-wikiwiki.JPG (40 downloads)

cedar tornado classic,
sunfish,
1972 morgan 27
optidad
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