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Going crazy, #147981
07/03/08 05:50 PM
07/03/08 05:50 PM

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Since Gato published his kids on F12 photos the phones (well the email actually) are going crazy I sent out 10 sets of plans that week and 4 more since the crew story. Obviously these people haven't committed to a build but its pretty amazing. I can't wait to see what happens as the other designs become available and particularly when RG's boats hit the water.

There are 23 sets of DS12 plans floating around and it will be interesting to see how many of them become boats. For the first few people who ordered plans I've made a couple of "tweeks" to the drawings so if your going to build please let me know before you cut timber and I'll send you an update.

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Re: Going crazy, [Re: ] #147982
07/04/08 01:40 AM
07/04/08 01:40 AM
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Finland
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Great, and instead of getting "historical" we should forge now when the iron is still hot.
If I understood the thing right there is a French guy with the intention to build, so I would like to get in contact with him. If we want to develope the F12 class in Europe we have to get things going in France. They are the most openminded to new ideas and there are a lot of multihulls.
So pleees, we have to get an article in French published in a paper or on a forum (my french writing is not good enough).
It could also be interesting to have a French designer doing a boat, and one that I am thinking about is David Reard. ( www.davidreard.com ), but France is full of young designers.

Re: Going crazy, [Re: Gato] #147983
07/04/08 01:53 AM
07/04/08 01:53 AM

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Gato,

If you don't mind, I'll send your email details to both the French and another from Finnish gentleman. Both have seen your web page and I'm sure would be interested in talking to you directly.

Re: Going crazy, [Re: ] #147984
07/04/08 01:56 AM
07/04/08 01:56 AM
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Finland
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Go ahead, and I will be more than happy to share my experience from building my DS12.

Last edited by Gato; 07/04/08 01:57 AM.
Re: Going crazy, [Re: Gato] #147985
07/04/08 02:28 AM
07/04/08 02:28 AM

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Job done. Hopefully, they will contact you soon.

Re: Going crazy, [Re: ] #147986
07/06/08 07:45 AM
07/06/08 07:45 AM
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France
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I'm the French one... I can't write English fluently but will try to make efforts. I agree with Gato dealing with the necessity to promote the F12 class in Europe. The simplicity of the DS is for the Tornado what the Optimist is for the Star or Flying Dutchman. And all the boys and girls I meet on beaches who are practicing the Optimist want to try the multihulls (the adults boat !?!). We want multihulls back to the Olympics ? The we have to promote multihulls for childs now...

Re: Going crazy, [Re: xavier] #147987
07/06/08 08:19 AM
07/06/08 08:19 AM
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Thailand
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Well put and welcome... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


"House prices have risen by nearly 25 percent over the past two years. Although speculative activity has increased in some areas, at a national level these price increases largely reflect strong economic fundamentals." Ben Bernanke 2005
Re: Going crazy, [Re: Buccaneer] #147988
07/06/08 11:19 AM
07/06/08 11:19 AM
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Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
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Xavier, I have no problem understanding your english. It is incredible cool to hear that there is interest in France! Please keep us informed!

Re: Going crazy, [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #147989
07/06/08 02:19 PM
07/06/08 02:19 PM
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Posts: 7
France
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In fact, I used to sail "pre-made" boats (all kind of, short or long). I get the idea to buid an Optimist for my son and search for some advices on the net. And I had the opportunity to visit your blog (woodastic) and these of Gato(qust.ax). So I get an other idea : the one to built a F14 for me and to teach my son on the same boat. Searching ideas about F14 and I found this forum. And then I read threads here and here. That's the way I read about F12. Woaw ! Stop or I'll get boats enough to organise an Eurocat alone (a F16 will come one of these days) !!!

So, the point I'm right now is :
I'm searching for a carpenter who could cut as many kits as needed for sailing schools here (Ctes d'Armor, Bretegne, France, the F18 kingdom in France). I'm in discussion with one of my teacher (when I was a boy): Olivier Bovyn. He's the chairman of the F18 World Council. I hope he could be able to help us by (for example) organising F12 races during F18 championships (kids and parents on the same circuit !!!).
I'll built a F12 (for sure), and the most important : I'll try to push the others to adopt the F12 class.


Inter 17 n64
Re: Going crazy, [Re: xavier] #147990
07/06/08 04:57 PM
07/06/08 04:57 PM

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Xavier,

your best bet for someone who can cut timber kits is timber joinery and kitchen companies. They typically have all the necessary equipment, you just need to find a sailing kitchen builder and you're set. I'll send you a copy of the cut files.

Re: Going crazy, [Re: ] #147991
07/06/08 06:46 PM
07/06/08 06:46 PM
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France
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Thanks a lot for the cutting files. It's what I wanted to ask for 'cause you proposed it to me in one of your mails.I think I'll be able to find a cutter during the week. For the sails, I used to work as sail cutter during the summer (it was one of the summer job as student in architecture) and I stayed in tune with the sailmaker.


Inter 17 n64
Re: Going crazy, [Re: xavier] #147992
07/06/08 07:04 PM
07/06/08 07:04 PM

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The cutfiles are on their way. You should note that savings can be made by rearranging the shapes if building more than one boat. For example Jeffs is getting two kits cut at present and we were able to remove one whole sheet of ply. Are you able to open autocad files?

Re: Going crazy, [Re: ] #147993
07/06/08 07:15 PM
07/06/08 07:15 PM
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France
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Yes, I've got an Autocad 2008 licence and some file converters to read any kind of CAD files. I'll contact some friends to make allmost two kits to spare wood sheet and to get a better price for the glass & epoxy.


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Re: Going crazy, [Re: xavier] #147994
07/07/08 10:47 AM
07/07/08 10:47 AM
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Finland
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What about sails, would it be possible to ask a sailmaker somewere (in Aaia) to start to make sails for the F12?

Re: Going crazy, [Re: xavier] #147995
07/07/08 06:11 PM
07/07/08 06:11 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,348
Kingston SE South Australia
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Quote
Bovyn. He's the chairman of the F18 World Council. I hope he could be able to help us by (for example) organising F12 races during F18 championships (kids and parents on the same circuit !!!).
I'll built a F12 (for sure), and the most important : I'll try to push the others to adopt the F12 class.


Were on the same wave length xavier, at our club and Adelaide siling club, if the weathers right kids sail the same course. I have a frame to piggyback two F12's nose to nose on top of either of my cats so the kids can travel and sail with me at kid friendly venues.


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Cant have two Ram Raiders at the same time so not named yet
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Arrow 1576
Re: Going crazy, [Re: Gato] #147996
07/07/08 06:15 PM
07/07/08 06:15 PM

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Gato,

the big asian lofts don't deal directly with customers, instead they service sail makers. What happens is a sail maker builds the first few sails and then when they're happy with a design they out source it to the China Sail Factory or one of the similar "lofts". So to source sails through there at present it would have to be done through your sail maker, they won't even deal directly with big companies like Baveria. Its worth looking into and I might send him an email to discuss.

Re: Going crazy, [Re: ] #147997
07/08/08 02:06 AM
07/08/08 02:06 AM
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Finland
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Had a mail from my sailmaker, he will send you some numbers.
He is also interested in making more sails,and will send me an offer when he gets the time. So if there is close enough I think it will be possible to get the sails at a good price.

Re: Going crazy, [Re: Gato] #147998
07/08/08 04:12 AM
07/08/08 04:12 AM
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France
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The sails shouldn't oversize 7m. But is the form factor discriminant (I mean, if we respect the rule of the 7m with a 2m max boom and a 5.8m lenght of mast, are we allowed to design the form we want without any limitation ?). The question can seem stupid but it's 'cause I'm re-thinking about the ART Sails (windsurf sail from the 80's that allowed wind release when over an pressure amount you limit by some tuning).


Inter 17 n64
Re: Going crazy, [Re: xavier] #147999
07/08/08 04:41 AM
07/08/08 04:41 AM

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Xavier,

the rule as discussed is sail area=sail + half mast or sleeve as the case may be. Should probably include a term for luff length ie. for sails with a luff rope area = sail area + half mast circumference x luff length or half of the actual sleeve area. Aside from that at this stage you can have any form you want. For example last I heard the Vudus will have a boomless deck sweeper.

Also we originally discussed a max mast length of 6m (which IIRC is what Wouter is planning. I reduced it to 5.8m on the DS12 as I was happy with the basic plan form that this produced and it also made the boat both more stable and easier to right.

Last edited by Scarecrow; 07/08/08 04:47 AM.
Re: Going crazy, [Re: ] #148000
07/08/08 05:47 AM
07/08/08 05:47 AM
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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
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I'm indeed looking at 6.00 mtr mast length.

The reasoning I had was as follows.

I want 7.00 sq. mtr sailarea as that is a good amount and the same as the Laser dinghy

I want at least a mainsail aspect ratio of 4

Therefor my mainsail luff length needs to be 5.3 mtr

I need 0.7 mtr clearence between mast foot and underside boom for my unstayed mast support structure. My design also uses a reinforced boom with a ram-vang and 0.70 mtr clearence is nice for the crew (banging heads etc). This rig can in principe rotate 360 degrees around the mast while keeping a good flying shape.

And so I arrive at 6.00 mtr total mast length. Stress analyses pretty much make this a maximum as well. My mast is basically tapered from 50 mm at the bottom to 30 mm at the top so I'm adding much heeling moment by going to 6.00 mtr.

Additionally this is a nice round number that will look nice in any class rules.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 07/08/08 05:48 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands

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