Do you guys use spacer lines with a plastic loop in your spin?

I have a new spin and it is a bear to snuff. I have soaked it in that Halmaken stuff (and the inside of the sock), lube the heck out of all the hardware, and yell profanities at it and it still is a bear.

I know the fabric will stretch and soften up a bit with use but I am thinking of trying spacer lines with a plastic loop as mentioned in the F16 forum.

Also where do I get a plastic loop (25mm dia.).

Last question... this is a Tornado Spin... used 1 time at the worlds... it is a 2 patch setup that was designed with a mid pole snuffer setup... I have read that a 3 patch system is needed for a mid pole... is this correct? If so, why do the T's use a 2? Would it help if i move the ring out close to the end of the pole?

Do I need to get new patches sown in?

Thanks.

The number of patches and their location is determined by the length of the sock. The T typically runs a longer sock than you could fit on the F16.

The spacer lines are used to try and keep from pulling all 3 patches through the hoop opening at the same time. If you have a 2 patch spin retrieval system, this should pull through much easier than the 3.

Once I started putting the Holmekol stuff on my spin, even brand new they pull very easy. (Repair tape will no longer work if you ever have a rip though) I would sort out how you have the system run and find where the drag is comming from. Kinks in the line, misaligned or damaged blocks, or strange angle pulls can really make it difficult to pull. Did the hoop and sock come with the spin? They may be undersized for the size of the spin if not. Adding the loop extensions changes the length of the sock needed for snuffing so if they came together, I would try other things first before messing with extensions.

If you need them APS carries the plastic rings in a variety of sizes. You may check on the store here too as they often have a lot of odd ball items.

Matt

I am thinking my spin did not absorb the Holmekol as i saw it bead up when applying (even though i soaked it in a tub)... I am hoping using the chute more will "break it in" and i will find the correct method.

I am moving my hoop out further towards the end of the pole this week and hope that may help a little too...

I have been able to apply repair tape to a few holes i created, and all my lines and blocks are correct. I was flying a F18 spin proir and did not have near the snuffing problems i do now.

PS i have a Tornado snuffer ring/bag that is long enough. They didnt come with the chute, but i purchased both the snuffer/bag and chute from Robby/Jill Nickerson and should work together.

Thanks for the info

Every length of line that you use to keep the dousing points away from each other will translate into that much more bag you will need to get the chute put away when snuffed.

I use two points with an endpole on my Formula 18. Some of the Tornado's in the past used a midpole with three dousing points. Now they are using two points on the chute with the snuffer opening nearer the end. Not quite an endpole but a midi, if you will.

I tie knots to separate my dousing points. Put the line through the first dousing hole and tie a figure eight about 1 1/2 feet from the end then tie the end to the top dousing point. If you have enough bag your whole chute will go in and the head and the clew will be right at or very near the opening.

Later,
Dan

We ran two patch spis with the snuffer a bit in front of the forestay compression strut on the Tornado. We used a 20cm spacer line, but with a knot, not a ball.

Thanks for the info. what do you mean "but with a knot, not a ball"? you mean the "ring"?

When I first setup my spin pole (Guck carbon Skunk; then later an alloy hoop), I found I had placed the opening too far back (nearly as far back as the forestay bridle) for the sail to snuff easily. What seemed to happen was the sail would collect in a huge blob outside the snuffer as the halyard slacken & retrieval line was pulled, before it would begin entering the hoop. So, is would be much harder to pull it into the hoop as a blob. I checked the distance of the sail tack to the first patch (3 patch setup) and found is was quite a bit shorter than pole-end to hoop distance. Placing the hoop 8-12 inches further forwaqrd made a dramatic difference in snuffing ease.

We had previously messed with spacers and lube...to little ot no avail. Getting the dimensions dialed in is the right answer to snuffing issues.

Good point! We did the same, but not before we went for a two patch spi. We thought the easier snuffing was inherent with only two patches. But your observation sounds good.

Consider your technique. Bear down a little before dousing the chute. This keeps the spin in front of the hoop and the main will partially shadow it. It is harder (not impossible) to retrieve once you start to round up.

Good Luck

Kris
F-16

Wait

You're flying a tornado chute on an F16?

Have you considered that you might be trying to wedge a basketball through a golf hole? :P

Wait... NO, YOU WAIT!

I sail a Mystere 5.5. My first spin was an HT F-18 spin. That I paid $100.00 (had over 60 tears/patches) to learn on.

I sail with 2 other Mystere 5.5's and a few 6.0's that all fly a Tornado spin.

So stick that in your GOLF HOLE! (just kidding, i love the sarcasm)

my hoop is being moved forward about 24 inches today... hopefully that isnt to far

check your distances to the first patch from the tack and from the tack to the hoop. Put the hoop close enough that the first patch is inside or nearly inside the hoop before the last patch is all the way down to the pole.


How do you manage to get the luff tension right (able to make a fist full of luff turn 90 degrees) with the T sail on the 16 footer? Is loads of mast rake enough?

I really do appreciate the input but i am sorry but i don’t understand

Also... My boat is over 18 feet long... i sail a Mystere 5.5 not a 16footer.

PS the pic above i was rigged for a HT F-18 spin which was had a much shorter luff. I have lowered my pole down to accomidate the new T spin. and Yes i think i can get the "twist" in my luff... but i also heard that was for older T spins and didnt apply anymore...

Make the hoop to pole-end distance less than the pole-end (or sail tack) to first patch distance.

Sorry, posts above implied F16 and I missed your correction.


The 90 degree luff twist is still used on T's...the sail cuts across the fleet have been fairly stable over the past few years. The GranSegal sails are typically one of two or three different cuts (Mark II, IV or V)...depending on what the teams want or expect on the event day. IV still seems the most common use for the past 3 or 4 years.

Luff tensions vary according to team preference and expected conditions...tighter for lighter (more luff curve). 90 degrees is a good starting point for moderate winds.

Mike,

I dont agree with your comments here. You should probably advise forum members that some T crews are still using the hand twist method, but not all......i know for a fact & have tried it my self that the Mk4 Gransegal spin does not perform 100% unless the luff is set with hoist length exactly the same at the luff length - ie///virtually a tight luff.

Basically we made the change at the advice of Darren Bundock & we could not believe how much difference the adjustment made. We were running 45 - 90 deg twist prior.

I believe Rolf has experienced similar results.?

Marcus

Got it! Thanks for the data

Yes. I advocate a tighter luff than the 90deg or 45deg twist method. Would depend a bit on the spi, but on the Gran Segel MK-4 we were definately at our fastest with a thight luff.

Good data... i will experiment when i get my snuffing issues worked out. Time for a GPS to determine what is best....

Like I tried to say beofre...depends on the sail and the conditions. I run an Ullman and Charlie O advised luff tensions by twisting.

Was just trying to suggest there's no hard & fast rule for this...best to start out at a general setting and go fro mthere depending on the sail cut, age of sail, conditions on the day etc.