While I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment, the truth is that there is a distinct line in the Olympics between the athlete and the equipment. Yes, the equipment plays a role but there is a certain lack of visible difference that is important to the Olympics. I have no doubt there are significant differences between bicycles, skates of speed skaters, swimsuits of swimmers, and shoes of sprinters but I can't tell them apart on television.

Show me 20 boats racing up to A-mark and four of them have huge screechers flying and the rest do not - anyone can see that difference. As a whole, the Olympics (or at least the visual) is supposed to be about the athlete.

That is an unintended but real consequence of life in the fast lane.

It should not be the business of race or regatta organizers to contemplate the market value of obsolete equipment.

We see this in all sports where equipment evolves.

Just be happy you had your time at the sharp end of the fleet.

Any residual value is just a down payment on the next platform.

We mere mortals may reap a short-term windfall...what's wrong with that?

The T-class has always been about equipment obsolescense…now will the whole class be obsolete?

I doubt it…it is still the perfect catamaran.

Almost: it is the most developed cat within the frame of its class rules. I'd say that it could be improved adding more flotation to the bows, daggerboards instead of centreboards and nets instead of cloth for the tramp. Maybe also canted hulls and asymetric and/or canted foils, among other things.

Jake,

I'd agree that the Olympics is supposed to be about the atheletes. Or at least, it should be! I don't suppose the ancient Greeks did an awful lot of equipment development.

However, I suspect there are an many vested interested that want the development, quite apart from the atheletes themselves looking for the edge. I'd argue that the Olympics are purer without it. I don't think this would stop innovation in its tracks - just look at non-Olympic sports: they don't lack technical innovation. e.g. mountain biking had been going for 20-40 years before it became an Olympic event, and by that time there were carbon, full suspension bikes.

I suppose that the 'vested interests' would argue for all out development classes. I think that an Alter Cup style arrangement would satisfy all: allow development of equipment over time, while leveling the playing field for competitors at the Games.

what is the advantage of daggers over centerboards?

You mean they didnt have carbon fiber sandles? oh yea, thats right... they competed in the nude~!

...and while we're at it, what is the difference between having an advantage due to an innovation in equipment, as opposed to drugs (which I also oppose!)

The equipment debate (for any sport) is an endless circle waiting for suckers.

I personally think that sailing is a fringe "sport" anyway, just like bobsledding. Yes, you need to be able to hike/trap and sheet in (push off/steer a bobsled), but do the best "athletes" really win? Sailing to win has more to do with experience, strategy and tactics.

Not calling any of that a bad thing, but I really have a hard time calling what we do a "sport for athletes" when the winners of major regattas are often over 30 (sometimes 40 or 50) and they are beating "kids" in their 20s who are in far better shape (at least physically).

If anyone really cared to make any sport ONLY about the athletes, all equipment would be SMOD, including skates, bobsleds, wetsuits, ski goggles, etc.

Just my two cents. I'm quite sure it'll not be popular...

Mike

Mike, i hereby challenge you to a bobsledoff!

John,

See what happens on a long slog up at Chi-Mac? You get nominiated for everything!

How was your trip anyway? No problem with blackflies?

"Not calling any of that a bad thing, but I really have a hard time calling what we do a "sport for athletes" when the winners of major regattas are often over 30 (sometimes 40 or 50) and they are beating "kids" in their 20s who are in far better shape (at least physically)."

Two words......Dana Torres!

With modern high aspect ratio boards you get more lift less drag.

Ding
is that lift thing specific to Dana Torres?

You've obviously never crewed on a Tornado. You need a young strong athlete in the front to make that boat go.

That woman is my hero! Along with few other old F%$@ still getting it done.

I would not agree. The years we sailed our Tornado it was not the physical requirements which made us slower than the really good guys, but knowlegde and skill. I would definately say that sailing and beachcat racing is not an especially atlethic sport (flame suit put firmly on!).
Swapping boats every olympiad would make it so much harder for underfunded teams to stay in the game. Would be great to have an endless supply of cheap boats, but either way somebody are paying for those boats.

All that aside, I am much more interested in what hopes and ambitions John have for the Multihull Commission and who else will be on it. What mandate it will have etc.

To work the negative angle: The whole idea is probably just a cookie thrown to the multihull community to raise morale and faith with ISAF. Council will keep its ways/power and that is the real problem with ISAF. Fact is that multihulls was in the games until ISAF Council threw all reccomendations and group submissions out the door with multihulls.

Hope I dont get you down John, I am sure you will do a splendid job, if it is possible.

ISAF announced at the last meeting that they were setting up the Commission, but didn't get into details of it's purpose. The scuttlebutt is that ISAF suspects ( <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> ) multihulls are underrepresented and this may be a first step toward bringing back the ISAF Multihull Committee. Capron asked me if I could sit on it and represent the US multihull community. I brought up other candidates for the job that I thought would do well, but Jim expressed a desire to have a rep that was in a position to get feedback from all classes of multihulls. US SAILING's position on multihulls in the Olympics is unchanged - the OSC says they still want to see a men's and a women's multihull event, and they want to end the Council practice of voting on individual events and vote on full slates instead.
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Finally. Water has a way of finding its own level. Many thanks to the IOC for standing resolutely around their prior 'full slate' position. This position strongly discourages the MNA equipment politicking embodied by the Estoril decision, and the manipulation equipment agendas. Bravo!

ps: MH'ers, and Mfrs. We have 4yrs to GET OURSELVES ORGANIZED!

Sorry but anyone who thinks they could compete against the olympic Tornado sailors without having a crew not in great physical shape has never raced at that level. The sheet loads on the Tornado are much much greater than F18, N20, etc. and in order to get and keep the boat in the (narrow) groove requires great strength. And in order to tack and jibe as efficiently as the top guys do requires a lot of physical abilities that you tend to lose with age (and cases of beer).

Sorry to derail the topic, but to think Olympic Tornado sailing does not require great physical fitness puts down the great athletes that actually do it because they truly are athletes.

"The sheet loads on the Tornado are much much greater than F18, N20, etc. and in order to get and keep the boat in the (narrow) groove requires great strength."

I've sailed both N-20 and a Tornado ,and the T had lighter sheet loads. F-18, I have no idea, but maybe it would be lighter. The mainsheet on the Ts I sailed on ,was always exotic and higher ratio. You musta had a cheap skipper or your ratchets were turned off.
I agree with you on the athlete part though. If brute strength is all that makes athletes then I guess powerlifters are the only true athletes. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I guess we have different definitions of athlete. From Wikipedia: An athlete is a sportsperson in a general sense or specifically a competitor in athletics (track and field) events.

So sailing a beachcat definately comes within that definition, even with a beer gut <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

For me the definition of an athlete have always been very narrow. Olympic level: gymastiasts, decathlon competitors, wrestlers etc. have been my definition of an athlete. Compared to those sports sailing have not struck me as demanding a lot of athletisism. I suppose we all have different views on this as the definition is quite broad.

It is not pure strength and stamina that makes a large beachcat go fast, it is 90% skill in my opinion. Enough strength to run the main and spi, and the stamina to do it for two races a day is enough. The manouvers are mostly about coordination, timing and agility but knowing how to do them are again the most important aspect in my opinion. If you sail at that level you sail so much that you will have the strength and stamina you need in my opinion. Being fit helps you go faster, but beeing super-fit dont give much of an advantage. The sharp end of the Tornado fleet going to Athens is not exactly young anymore.

soggysailor, perhaps you could share a bit of your experience in racing beachcats? Sounds like you have been at an olympic level since you are so certain?
I have a background with diverse martial arts and rock climbing, sports I consider more physically demanding if you push the limit than beachcat racing. Knowlegde and skill on the other hand plays a far larger role in beachcat racing in my experience. I have had my a$$ handed to me by the best, guys who sails a lot in all conditions. Not becouse they worked the sheets and the boat harder than us, but they knew exactly how to use their gear and bodies. Perhaps we should make a new thread for this..