Well there's a new one, Tiny island syndrome.

Guess not every one can see the big picture !

Tony, I don't think snide remarks like that is really going to help the fleet.

I take it it you don't know what DucatiScott has done for the South East Asian cat scene for decades and maybe his words come about because he can see far bigger than what we can see on our level. After all, not many of us can really lay claim to knowing the ins and outs of building a fleet of 40 cats in one club.

And just for information the local AHPC dealers also deal with many brands of cats and are far more interested in getting the right boat for the right person than pushing a particular brand. As such we have the privilege here at the club to play with quite a few different models of f16s. Ducatiscott's opinions are not completely unfounded.

At the end of the day, we're just pottering around for the fun of it. Don't see the need to make personal attacks like that.

Hmmm, trying to start a tit-for-tat debate within the class is not really a good idea. How about moving forward and engaging the Singapore fleet and seeing what opportunities for GC and other events there could be. That would be a more mature attitude. The Singapore fleet has concentrated on growing and developing themselves by a few core people. At this stage the fleet isn't too interested in the rest of the F16 world as we have larger numbers here for local regattas.

James,

I think you (and others) need to appreciate that Wouter speaks for himself and not for the wider F16 membership. I'm also fairly sure that no animosity or one-upmanship was intended on his part.

All the other F16 owners wish the Singapore fleet nothing other than successful sailing and continued growth. I'm sure that we're all looking forward to the day when some or all of your fleet decide to join in with the existing National Associations and also when we can take part in an international event in Singapore.

I don't think that I started this tit-for-tat round of discussion. I did make a snide remark, however. Afterall the very first Global Challenge event had been planned for Singapore; you kow the club that can easily put "40 boats on the water" ? Come to remember, the year before the Taipan 4.9 nationals were planned at the same location. Both events faled and in our case Hans Klok our chairman had to inprovise a Global Challenge in Zandvoort to replace the one that was cancelled in Singapore.

I think the Singapore fleet would do well to remember this listing of two cancelled major events in a row before claiming any personal greatness with regard to any other activities in other regions of the world.

I dare say that the Alter Cup event of 2006 on ten provided VWM Blade F16's (and 20 US top racing teams) was the most impressive achievement in the F16 class thus far. These guys made plans, committed themselves to it and delivered on their commitment. There is a lesson for us all, I think.

Indeed as John says, we all welcome the Singapore fleet and look forward to fruitful cooperation and lots of fun, but there is no need for wild claims with an unfounded "look at us !" quality to it.

John is right I'm not an official in the F16 class, but alot of stuff related to Singapore did happen under my tenure as the class co-founder/chairman. I've seen alot of claims come and indeed go unmet. These certainly make the current claims sound a bit hollow.

But I'm fully prepared to look onto the bright future !

Wouter

I'm keen for a Global Challenge/Worlds in Singapore. And only 7 hours flying from Adelaide <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />. Just concerned about the breeze up there, I hear it's notoriously light?

Yes it can be notoriously light. We are only 1 degree north of the equator and consistent breezes are not the norm.

The only time to ensure good winds is during the NE Monsoon. That is Dec to Mar each year. Generally Chinese New Year has the best breezes. For that 4 day holiday this year I sailed all 4 days in 15 to 20 knot breezes that lasted all day.

And you can guarantee that the water temp will be 24 degrees! So no wetsuits required!

Need to correct some points here.

The first event was organised via the Australian Taipan Assoc in part conjunction with the Singapore fleet. It actually wasn't going to be sailed in F16 configuration, but Taipan configuration. Initially this was planned to be in Singapore, but was re-located to Pattaya in Thailand.

This event fell apart due to a number of reasons: logistics and increased shipping costs became 3x greater than originally quoted for the Australian boats; drop out of a number of boats from Australia; support from AHPC really didn't come through; and the Singapore fleet also didn't have too much interest in travelling after a bad experience moving boats in and out of Thailand at the Samui Regatta the previous year (customs etc).

I am not too sure of the details for the 2nd event as I was in the UK at the time, but when I returned to Singapore the word I had was, main organiser found out he had skin cancer and had to give up organisation of the event to other club members. Noone really took up this position, so nothing materialised here.

And as for 40 boats on the water, the growth of cats at the club in Singapore in the last 12 to 18 months has been really great. They have actually had to expand the compound considerably to fit them all in! Can't wait for the NE monsoon season starting in Dec.

TaipanFC,

Every organising committee so far has encoutered serious problems in one form or another, that is all part of organising such a big event. Some committee's overcome them others don't. That is the difference that matters at the end of the day.

A harsh judgement ? Yes ! But one that has to be made nevertheless, as we all need to achieve results at some point. Cancelling a major event is really not an option; The fact that life typically isn't fair doesn't change that. The other members of a committee or club should garantee continuation in case of one particular person falling away. You as a stock trader should be acutely aware of that. You don't get nearly enough points for trying; succeeding is the real name of the game.

Maybe Singapore can get lucky on a given sunbathed holliday with perfect wind and a chance gethering of 40 F16 crews preparing to go out sailing (I haven't seen that happen in the results yet) but that is whole different ball game then succesfully planning and executing a major event with possibly bad weather and long distance travel and boat transport that has to be planned months in advance. I think Ducati Scott is well reminded of that.

The other points refer to things I hadn't said; so I let them be.

Other then pointing this out (and repeating myself) I have only interest in progressing things to a better future.

Wouter

Somehow I dont think your approach (snide comments)is/are conducive to promoting this fne class?<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Yes indeed Wouter, I am well reminded of it!

I gave up about the time we were told by someone controlling the Association from outside the region, insisted they would organise it as they knew best! We stepped aside and it was pulled from Singapore and taken to Thailand which is even harder to organise events in!

That would be just like us telling you how to organise events in Europe while we sit in Southeast Asia - it just isn't going to work!

TaipanFc is right. When logistics got too hard because someone overlooked a few essentials, sailors started pulling out. It was a learning experience for us!

You've done a great job in forming the Class and getting it this far. And you're right, getting it to a better future is the trick!

We have more Europeans arriving on our shores every week as Singapore is sort of booming right now. It's very interesting to hear a greater majority of these say "they have never hear of the F16 Class before"... I think we'd be well advised to promote the Class properly.

Humour me for a moment. If we take a look at Asia, and if you lived in,
- Hong Kong... you will know the Dart Fleet and the Hobie Fleet (H16 and Tiger)
- Bangkok, Thailand... you will know the Hobie (H16 and Tiger) and Nacra Fleet
- Japan... you will know the Hobie Fleet and some Nacras
- Philippines... you will know the Hobie Fleet (H16)
- Singapore... Nacras, Taipans, Vipers, some Blades and F16.

My point is, the best way to have your Class spread across the globe in the fastest possible manner is to have the big manufacturers involved. If we can't find a way to get them involved its going to grow, but very slowly!

It's really up to you. You can direct it which ever way you wish.

Our fleet will continue to grow as long as Singapore prospers. At the end of the day, an owner will buy a boat that suits their needs and those of the local environment.

Next month our first Nacra 20 will arrive and I'm sure the F16's are going to have their work cut out for them then. It will be very interesting as already 2 F18's have arrived and this signifies a change in our scene.

We always need to look for ways to best represent ALL our sailors, that's the real challenge that lies ahead!

cheers

Hey there Clayton
ha ha that is pretty funny -
Somehow I dont think your approach (snide comments)is/are conducive to promoting this fne class?

You right it's not... but its such a free-for-all on the F16 Forum that it's almost in the instructions for use! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I dont see the point in the current discussion in this thread, but..



You are very, very, wrong and that is no excuse. Being polite is just as normal here as everywhere else. Especially as you are among strangers here for now.

As of from now, Singapore (SIN) is on the country list for international membership applications. Again, you were not left out intentionally and this was the first opportunity I had to fix it. Sorry for the inconvenience!

I checked the list of countries against ISAF country designation codes and we have omitted rather a lot of codes. I should perhaps add all 127 codes..

Now do me the courtesy of locking this thread and continuing the discussion in a new thread.

It has wandered way way off the original topic.

Ducati Scott,

JJ is right this thread is wondering off track.

We have discussed the "Big builder" issue many times over and it is no use starting it over again.

Personally, I recognize that my own activities too were a string of fortunes and mishaps yet we as a class were never desperate for big builders to enter and we never will be.

I was (we were) told from the very beginning that it would never work or that this and that was wrong. One particular friend to the class promised to run us into the ground and had definately had the money to make good on a promise. He tried for 3 years and then gave up, never to be heard of again.

I think we must pride ourselves that were are the only new catamaran class in the last 10 years to do a succesful startup. The big boys products are rather behind us then in front of us. That sort of spells to me that slow growth may well be a good thing and that all other approaches may actually be worse then ours.

In our imagination it can always be better still, but I wonder if reality agrees with that.

That is were I leave it. All other stuff has already been said many time over in other past threads.

Lets get back to JJ original intent

Wouter

No thanks, Wouter.

I am satisfied.

Spitfire ???

I have been using a simular method. I pound 2 stakes into the beach in a crossing fashion. I tie a 100 foot (33 meter) line to them, i tie the other end to the wheels. I role the boat into the lake to rig the main and then sail away leaving the wheels floting around. When i come back i'm able to retrieve the wheels and get the boat attached before i drop the main.

The weight i added to my port hull is about 2 kilo. Using a very course sand paper i ground off two layers of gel coat that were about 0.40 mm thick each. i laid one layer of s-glass across the bottom which is about 0.20 mm thick before resin is applied. i painted on one coat of epoxy over the corsely sanded bottom, applied fiber-glass, painted another coat of epoxy, squeegee, 2 or 3 coats of epoxy with micro ballones mixed in. I sanded that down to a paintable surface. total epoxy, included that sanded off, amounted to 1.5 liters. weight of micro ballons - to light to measure. weight of fiber-glass...6 ounces per yard (170 grams per meter). Polyurethane paint 1/4 liter.