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Life jacket required flag #166354
01/27/09 04:25 PM
01/27/09 04:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
RC flies it, are they more or less liable?


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
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Re: Life jacket required flag [Re: David Ingram] #166363
01/27/09 04:49 PM
01/27/09 04:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
doesn't that kind of relate back to the equipment required on board boats?

Would SI indicate life jackets be worn by sailors and crew at all times anyway?

Interesting question. I didn't even realize their was a lifejacket flag... but maybe for big boats whose crew wouldn't regularly wear PFDs

I guess the liability would attach if the PRO/RC flew the flag and let someone (who is later injured) get by without wearing it

Last edited by waterbug_wpb; 01/27/09 04:50 PM.

Jay

Re: Life jacket required flag [Re: waterbug_wpb] #166366
01/27/09 04:53 PM
01/27/09 04:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Many regattas I have been to in my life (or was it just Hobie regattas?) fly a lifejacket-required flag when the wind is over a certain level. I don't even know what it looks like because I ALWAYS wear a life jacket, even if there NO wind.

Our Hobie fleet in Miami used to have a rule that if there was enough wind for you to go out on the trapeze, you had to be wearing a life jacket.

Last edited by Mary; 01/27/09 04:55 PM.
Re: Life jacket required flag [Re: waterbug_wpb] #166373
01/27/09 04:58 PM
01/27/09 04:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
H17cat Offline
old hand
H17cat  Offline
old hand

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
There is a life jacket flag. But, we leave it on all the time. Much safer, especially on a one person boat.

Caleb Tarleton
H-17 6446

Re: Life jacket required flag [Re: H17cat] #166390
01/27/09 05:46 PM
01/27/09 05:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Since you can fall overboard and drown in 0 knots of wind.
Why have a flag that gets used when ... "conditions warrant".
It's always warranted!

The discretion to fly or not fly the "life jacket required flag" shifts the responsibility from the skipper to the PRO.

The OA is better off being able to state. "We never fly this flag under any circumstances or we don't own this flag when the spouse of the drowned sailor wants to know why NO ONE REQUIRED him to wear a life jacket.

Junior Regattas will put the requirement in the SI's and so it's in effect when you leave the beach in 0 to 30. The difference is that no discretion is allowed.

Just like PU declaring that sailors have an expectation of safety from the PRO and the OA... or
Defining some boats on the course as Safety boats....allows some novice sailor to decide... Well... it's OK to race because they have safety boats that will bale my butt out. or
The life jacket flag up or down shifts some responsibility from the skipper to someone else ....

Nothing good can come of it!



crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Life jacket required flag [Re: Mark Schneider] #166422
01/27/09 08:39 PM
01/27/09 08:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
HMurphey Offline
addict
HMurphey  Offline
addict

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
The "life jacket reguired" flag is yellow w/diagonal red stripes .... Code Flag "Y" (Yankee)

Harry Murphey

Re: Life jacket required flag [Re: HMurphey] #166436
01/27/09 09:44 PM
01/27/09 09:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Let's clear up a few things here...

There are no wind-based requirements to wear life jackets in the Hobie class rules or standard SIs. Haven't been for the last 12 years that I've been involved.

As Harry said, the flag is code flag Y. When it is flying, per the RRS, wearing life jackets is required.

As Mark mentioned, some other classes, especially for Youth, add mandatory life jacket use into the SIs.

Now that we have the basics cleared up, let's get away from this idea that somehow, the RC takes on more responsibility. I can't believe we need another thread on this, let me go get a hot poker for my eye...

If you really think the RC will be liable, read the rule book. The RC is one party at the regatta. We are NOT there to be the police. There are also other competitors out there. It isn't possible for the RC to see everything people are doing on the water.

If the Y flag is flying and a competitor chooses to not wear a life jacket, it is the sailor's responsibility, as they are breaking a rule. Hey, there's something new in America, let's have people take responsibility for their own actions!

I spent a great number of years working with PU. He, and many other wise PROs have taught me one thing if nothing else: This is a self-policing sport. If you want to spend your time (as RC) in the protest room instead of the bar, that's always your option. But, if the sailors aren't going to police themselves, it's not our job to go out there and find things to keep the jury busy.

Obviously, if you (as RC) witness something blatant, and no competitors were in the area to see it, and you have rock-solid proof, it's in everyone's best interest to approach the sailor and ask them to resign. If they fail, then file a protest from the RC. But, that is not what we're dicsussing here...

I rarely recall an instance of seeing the Y flag up at a major regatta. If I have, it's usually at the OA's request. I don't know too many PROs who think it's really something that is necessary. We have enough to do to get racing off on time and on a square course.

Mike


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